Last post with less typos of my previous thread...
Well, Ali knows already since we spoke on the phone for an hour but I really don't know how to type everything.
The session lasted 1,5 hours and was pretty calm at first (for about 2 minutes) and then I let all the anger out, the bitterness, the resentment, the hurt. I went back to the pre bomb era and then to incidents of that time, to the bomb, how he left, how he treated me, how he kept me in limbo when I was asking for D, to now and what he tells the kids and how he treats me. I talked about the OW and how he still hides how she changed jobs etc etc. At first he said "I dont accept anything you say because you are so angry".
My C tried to tell me anger is not good for me. I said I had prepared for this session to let it all out because exactly I know anger is no good and I want it OUT of my system. I talked about money, about lies, bout disrespect, about how he decided the easy way out and destroyed us and our family etc etc. He was interrupting and at that point he said -You think that was the easy way out? That was the hard way out!! and I replied -so you are telling you chose the hard way out that meant our end and couldn't choose the easy way to stay that could mean our happiness? Please explain how and why you did that? He couldn't answer that...
Anyway,although my C kept saying, I need to "get over my issues" about the OW, the past, the hurt etc, she said we made a false effort from the beginning and the OW shouldnt be a requirement and I am making her "strong". I said the specific OW and any OW is capable only to clean my shoes and that was proven because if H had found more he would have stayed, and that I know I am special and great and he knows it too. The fact that he is lying by not saying the facts is important to me. H said a few excuses about the gift and...nothing else, he kept quiet and never answered about the call on Easter day or the note 'I love you very much" (although in private he told the C it was a prank ? by a coworker that it took him 16 months to remember!!!).
I said that he came back and got angry again very soon, showed pride, selfishness and how that in my head isn't working when you are dealing with the future of 4 people. I asked where would we be if I was proud and arrogant? He wouldn't stand a chance in hell to be with me again...
The C we are both deciding to divorce based of the frustration of the wrong effort and although she doesn't believe all couples should stay together, she thinks if we tried again "correctly" this time we may find that we will be very happy. She said it is a painful process and that we should forget about the past and concentrate on the future. Her suggestion was to sleep on it for a week and insisted as a therapist that we haven't ever really tried to get together. She asked me if I am sure about my decision and I told her no because I love him some still (yes I said that) but I am ready to take the risk because I am very unhappy.
He said I've told him I am calm but today and the last 2 weeks I showed him that was a lie. I replied that the fact that I am going back to my old self makes me mad and is the reason I want this all to end.
She insisted we think about it for a week and told us that if we decide to try we should know it is difficult and we should listen to her instructions.
He agreed and I agreed and then she said we should meet this week, for at least 2 hours even if we decide on Sat to divorce it's ok... I said the only thing I can do with him is poison him and they both laughed.
I told her that she asks too much from me, that I am supposed to overcome everything of the past 2 years, the hurt, the cheating, the rejection as if nothing happened, but she forgets I am only human. She said she asks from me what she thinks I can give, if I dont want to give it, it's my choice...
Yes..I meant it might not be wise to make the decision on divorcing yet, as any decision to end an R whilst Venus is retrograde might not 'stick' once Venus goes forwards. Best to use the Venus R time to explore what and who you value and to look at past issues in love, or reconnect with old lovers, gather information etc before coming to conclusions in love... Sometimes we can only go forwards by going backwards...
Remember my ex has this 6 week project? And I said I hoped he WOULD wait till after that to end it with her.. as then Venus will be direct and the decision WILL stick and not need to be revisited.
so yes, follow the C's advice and perhaps make the decision once yuo have tried, gathered the information you need to make the decision with a clear head (and not out of anger/frustration/I want to feel better)..and when everything is going forwards again (Venus direct April 17th, but then Venus doesnt get back to where it is now and out of its shadow phase, until 22nd May I think and also, Saturn doesnt go forwards until 26th May.. THEN we may know! LOL.. no, still not funny). But proper 'effort' as she calls it, this time!?
He never said he loves you....even when you said you love him? That would have been the perfect opportunity. However, some people show their love rather than verbalize it. Hopefully he will do that soon.... Calmer and stonger....regardless of the reasons is good.....but I am also curious why. Have a nice Sunday....
There is an episode of "Friends" that came to mind when I read the telling of your recent counseling visit.
In the episode, Chandler hooks up with Rachel's boss from work. The boss likes Chandler, but Chandler doesn't really like the boss. Despite this rather important fact, Chandler continues to end each date with the line "Well this was fun. We'll have to do it again."
Because of this, Rachel's boss is upset and hurt when Chandler fails to call her for another date. Even when Rachel finally confronts Chandler and insists he accompany her to her work to finally tell the boss that he is not really interested, he ends even that conversation with "Well this was fun. We'll have to do it again."
In the show, it was very funny.
I think it was Albert Einstein who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result.
K, I am all for saving marriages. I would love for your children to have the benefit of a whole family, Mom and Dad both at home and both loving and supporting them. I would love for you to finally feel loved and cherished by your husband, and he by you.
But what will be different this time?
If being able to finally pour out all your feelings, hurts, and frustrations at this latest meeting has changed YOU and your outlook, I can perhaps see the benefit of trying again. You know, I think, that your attitude changed dramatically in this recent effort when your husband did not respond the way you had hoped. Perhaps that is because of all the unresolved things you still had churning inside.
For another effort to make any sense, it must come with a different approach by BOTH of you.
Your husband must find the balls to actually try, to actually express his feelings for you, to sacrifice in some way to show how utterly lost he would be without you.
And you must find a way past the past. You have to be able to start from today, start from ground zero rather than ground negative 100. You must be willing to do your part in fostering love, and that is an ACTIVE thing.
Otherwise, this is nothing more than the two of you saying, "Well, that was fun. We'll have to do it again."
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I wish I could do something to make you feel better.
As I'm walking for two days now with that awful hole in my stomach, again, I understand your desire to let it all out of your system and just be free.
Hold on, another week...
I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders ____________________________________________________ M 46 H 45 D 17 M/T 23 Bomb #1 (ILYBNILWY) 12.06 Bomb #2 (OW) 12.07 Bomb #3 (chose OW over M) 9.08
Bill, I remember that episode, very well. I love Friends (How are you doin?).
She did make a big thing about this time doing things completely differently. she thinks H will be different because of the IC he is doing (3 sessions so far, 4th next Sat if we decide to try once more). Also, she thinks -and I agree- we both know it is the end. As far as I am concerned, there is a difference. You know, that's how we met- what happened in my life late summer-, for the first couple of months I was angry with H, really angry for ruining my chance to be with somebody I really felt close to. I was mourning the loss of someone I love. I am still fighting my feelings but I have come -for many reasons cant share here- to accept that I have to let go completely of that -wonderful- "dream".
The anger I let out today was also good. The fact that I am talking to my C privately again, is also different. I am not saying this is all it takes, and I agree with you, BUT, if we ever had a chance, this maybe it.
I am not naive. You know, I've been thinking today, she said we would have to both follow her instructions, no excuses, no "work", no lack of babysitter, no feeling tired etc etc. She told my H, he would have to quit the rejection fear he feels and since now he knows it, he should deal with it and not let it rule his life. Btw, he said that all our common life he wouldn't disagree with me, because any difference in opinions from me was automatically translated as rejection. I told him "I chose to marry you,have babies with you, why a disagreement about vacation would mean rejection as a whole, as a personality?". She said, this is his issue. His one and biggest issue.
We would have to DO it, not try to do it. It will be obvious pretty soon if we do that, NOT the result (happiness), but if we do follow and are doing the hard work. At this point I see no shortcuts. And I think, he sees no shortcuts either. If he agrees, if I agree, there will be no "faking it".
I am looking forward to going to IC this Tuesday. There are a couple of things I need to clarify and I am supposed to do this hard work with her that shows which patterns I am repeating in my relationships. For me. And then, we'll see. I havent made a decision yet, but I am calmer because all this frustration is out. I really said almost everything. I think I even said a phrase Al once wrote "You will be regretting this in your deathbed"... I know, pretty harsh, but that is the way it came out.
And finally, if 2 months from now, we are really done, I will finally be at peace. Even if he disagrees now, I will be at peace. Selfish, but true. K
Lisa, John, Stella, I dont think I would have told him I loved him either, if he told me all the things I told him. My C was shocked. I was so angry and bitter she didnt know how to deal with me. I cant even remember all the things I said.
Ohh and the kids' C said, NO WAY should my kids change homes etc now. It would be devastating for them...
Kalni, I am glad you are feeling better now that you let out your anger and frustrations. I always feel better too (at least for some time)when I let out my anger. I still have a lot of anger in me over what happened and it's come out at times. It may not be the best way to go about it but it's done and now H knows exactly what you are feeling. I hope he initiates spending time with you this week as the C suggested. As for your kids, it would probably be very traumatic for them to go live with H. His resistance to taking the kids 50% of the time, could that have anything to do with cultural differences that exist there where it's probably much more common in your country that the mother just keeps the kids and not usually the fathers, except maybe some weekends???? Having 50% custody may be a very foreign concept for him or is it common for this to happen?
Me47 H46 S13 M16 Piecing since May/09
"Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react to it." Lou Holtz
I loved people in the past who did far worse than tell me things. I have told them I love them in spite of what they have done. I guess that is the difference between you and your H. You are able to express your feelings regardless of the past and he is not.
