I'm pretty new to the DB forums, but I have read and re-read both DB and DR a couple of times already. Truth be told, I'm more of a lurker but life events are pushing me into uncharted (at least for me) territory. Here is my story.
I met my wife when I was in the Air Force in 1989. I was a fresh-faced 20-year old airman station in Germany and she was a cute, grey-green eyed German girl. We hit things off almost immediately, despite the fact that she was only 17. Her parents were very supportive of our relationship and I usually spent every weekend at her house. In December 1990, on her birthday of all crazy things, we found out she was pregnant. I have always been a responsible guy and I wanted to do the right thing by her. In the small town that she lived in there were already a few kids of single mothers whose fathers had been in the US Military. In point-of-fact, my wife's half-sister was a "GI Baby". I did not want my child to be a "Yankee Bastard", or to have the stigma that that title carried, so even though I didn't think I was "in-love" with her, I asked her to marry me anyway decided to try and make a go of it. The circumstances of our marriage have been a constant sore spot for my wife, but more on that later.
We were married in her home town, with almost the entire town coming out to wish us well. We were very poor (I was only an E-3, and she was a farmer's daughter) and we didn't even have a proper honeymoon, but we were initially happy. Shortly after the birth of our first son, I received orders to return to state-side. My wife was scared to death to move so far from home. She was only 18 with an infant son and her english wasn't all that good. It was a huge leap of faith on her part to even consider leaving her family, her town, and her friends to follow her new husband to America. Initially, she cried and was very reluctant to go, but I pleaded with her that this was the right thing to do and that I wanted her to come with me. After many tears and "I Love You's", she finally agreed to come to the United States with me.
For next year we were station in Arizona. We had an apartment just outside of the base. I worked all day, and would come home tired and grumpy. My wife busied herself with taking care of our son and learning english. During these early days, she would get very depressed because she missed her family and friends. I freely admit that this time in our marriage wasn't great. While she was really trying to reach out to me and be the prefect wife, her depression and neediness was really turning me off. Her mother even flew from Germany twice and stayed for a few months to help her adjust.
It was at that time that I became emotionally involved with an old girlfriend. When my wife discovered my EA, she was crushed, but determined to make the marriage work. After a year, I mustered out of the Air Force and went home to Utah to go to school. My EA was still going strong, and I was even flaunting it in front of my wife. I would be talking on the phone to my GF and telling her that I loved her, while my wife was sitting next to me on the couch with our son in her arms. It is a maracle that she put up with that, and it speaks to her character and determination that she stayed with me during that time.
Eventually I came around to her emotionally, but it was a slow process. I put the kibosh on the EA and I dedicated myself to my marriage and my family. we were both working while I was going to the University of Utah. Between the both us, our paychecks were barely keeping us afloat. We were living in my parent's basement under some very stressful conditions. My mother was very disapproving of my wife and was critical of everything she did. My mothers' negativity of our marriage was based primarily on religious differences (My family was Mormon and my wife was Protestant). Because of the caustic home environment, we were usually out of the home a lot. When we did come home at the end of a long day of work and school we would usually just collapse in bed. Any thoughts of doing anything together to build our relationship was just wistful thinking.
In 1995 two blessed events occured: my wife gave birth to our second son, and I graduated from school and found a job in California. Once again we up-rooted our fledgling family and piled all our belongings into a moving van and headed off into the sunset. The move to California was a good one for us. We were out from under my mother's roof and we were living our own life. My job paid very well so my wife became a SAHM, which was a role that she loved. A year later, our daughter came along and then we were 5. It was pretty stressful having two infants at home under 2, but we managed. My wife bonded with the kids and was able to spend long periods of time with them. Her mother also flew to visit a few times to help her keep her sanity.
After a few years in california, we moved back to Utah and bought our first house. My wife made a lot of friends and really blossomed into the social, happy person that I know her to be. As our kids grew older and started school, I rediscovered my religiousity and worked very hard on my family and my relationship with my wife. These were really the golden years of our marriage. We enjoyed doing things together and had mutual friends. We were both growing together and becoming a stronger family. Just like anything in life, things weren't perfect, but they were very good.
In 1999 things changed. I was introduced to the game Ultima Online, which is a massively multiplayer game. I have always been a huge gamer nerd, so the idea of playing a game together with thousands of other people at the same time was both fun exciting. I started playing and soon was logging hours and hours of my "spare" time. Of course it wasn't spare time: it came at the expense of the time that I used to spend on my wife, my family, and my church. As I spent more and more time involved in the virtual world, my real world obligations began to suffer. My wife and I stopped going on date nights together because Friday nights were prime gaming nights. Then activities with my kids started taking a back seat. I was too absorbed in what I was doing to notice that the relationship between my wife and I was starting to change. At first, she reacted as the typical temparature-taker of the relationship: she saw the drop-off in attention and started nagging me, which had the predicable result of driving me further and further away from her and into the fantasy world that I was immersed in. Still, even at the time our relationship was starting to feel neglect, I was genuinely happy in my marriage: my income was sufficient that all the material needs of my family were being taken care of, even as I was starving for my attention.
After a few years, I introduced my oldest son to the game, and then the the next multi-player game that came down the pipe, and then the next. This was my way of spending quality time with my son. As my younger son became more computer-savy, I also brought him into the fold. Before long it became a routine in our house for the boys to come home from school and head straight to their computers and start playing. When I got home from work, I would join them as soon as my wife had fixed me a plate of food. In hindsight I realize thatn my actions were incredibly selfish, but I was so comfortable in my marriage and in my relationship with my wife that I rarely (if ever!) gave it a second thought. I was happy but my wife wasn't. At this time, she sort of retreated into her own little world. She had her friends that she interacted with and it became a world that I was reluctant to venture into. She was also venting to her mom via telephone almost every day how horrible her life was and how much she hated life in the United States. In reality, it was life with me that she was starting to hate, but aside from the occasional comment about how she didn't like living in the US, I didn't really pay much attention. In time, she even stopped complaining about this issue to me.
In 2005, my wife decided that she wanted to have her mom and dad come over from Germany and live with us. I was all for the idea because I have a wonderful relationship with my in-laws and they were both getting on in years and would soon need someone to take care of them. Our financial situation was such that I could afford to support them, along with the their German equivalent of social security. In order to pull this off, however, they would need to be sponsored by an american citizen who is a blood-relative. My wife was still a German citizen and didn't want to give it up to become an American, but she reluctantly agreed that it was the only way to be able to bring her parents over. She applied for and was eventually naturalized in 2006. Instead of being a happy occasion, though, she was very depressed: her German citizenship and identity were very important for her, and giving it up, even if for the noblest of reasons, was a very hard thing for her to do. As soon as the ink was dry on her US Passport, we applied to have her parents immigrate to the US. While the paperwork was making its way through the system, my wife convinced me that one last trip to Germany for the family would be a good idea. Since I was still working and couldn't get the time off, my wife and kids all went on a two-month trip back to Germany over the Summer.
For my wife, it was the first time that she had been "home" since the early years of our marriage, and she relished being back in her own country, even though she was technically a US citizen now. She took the kids all over the place and showed them all sorts of things about Germany. The kids really got a chance to see what their moms culture was like and, I believe, gained a healthy dose of respect for her in the process. Unfortunately, while things were playing out well for my Family, disaster was about to strike back in Utah. The company that I worked for decided that my devision was no longer needed and inevitable lay-off followed shortly thereafter. The company offered to relocate us to Houston if I would agree to stay on. When my wife got back from Germany, the two of us flew to Houston and spent a week looking around and getting the lay of the land. My wife was instantly smitten with Texas and was very interested in moving there, but I had my reservations. I wasn't 100% certain that my job would be secure, even with the relocation, and I felt even less sure about future prospects there (I'm in the software business and Houston isn't exactly a Silicon Valley!) In the end, I opted for a job in Oregon instead. The job in Oregon paid better and I was drawn to the outdoorsy feel and general left-leaning population. Even though I had consulted and talked with her for hours on end about why this was the better choice, she felt that I was not being sensitive to her wishes. She felt that I was "jerking her chain" by taking her for a week to Houston and then turning around and choosing Oregon without having her even see the place first. In addition, she resented having to move at all! In Utah she had friends and knew all our neighbors; I think she was scared about the prospects of starting over from scratch. Despite her wishes to the contrary, we again loaded up the family and headed west.
We spent a miserable month when we first arrived in Portland. We drove into town in November 2006, right in the middle of the wettest year in 10. Since she absolutely hates rain, this was a bad omen. To make matters worse, my new company only put us up in a 1 room temporary apartment for a month. If you can picture it: 5 people, two cats and a dog in a one-room hotel room for a month! It was madness. I was glad that I got to get out of there every day and go to work. My wife spent most of her time going around with realtors trying to find us a permanent place to stay. Finally, after a month of looking, we found a place and got settled. Unfortunately, that is when the trouble really began.
One thing that we did not count on when we moved was that our efforts to get my in-laws to move in with us would be impared by the move. Not only would we have to re-file the applications and re-pay the fees, but the clock would also be reset. In addition, my father-in-laws health took a turn for the worse and it was not likely that he would be approved to immigrate due to his condition. My wife and I talked long and hard about what to do and in the end, she decided to not pursue having them immigrate. It was a hard choice for her to make because she wanted to be close to them, but we both agreed that changing circumstances made it nearly impossible to happen.
In the two years that we have been in Oregon, my wife has never really warmed to living here. She hates the rain, the impersonal people in our neighborhood (which is largely a result of her choosing a house in a newer neighborhood where rich "snobs" live), and the fact that we have no familial support (my family is in Utah). I was also still playing my online games (World of Warcraft by this time) and completely absorbed in it. My oldest son was also deeply immersed in it to the point that his grades and social life were suffering. My wife, bless her heart, was still plugging away for our family: cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the yard, the bills, and just about everything. The kids and I were deep in "taking her for granted" mode. As the kids and I withdrew emotionally from her, she intensified her dialog with her mom: she didn't want to live here any more! She also secretly started enrolling in online chat-groups and pen-pal sites in the hopes of finding friends that she could connect with. By my wifes account, our marriage was sinking into the mire; I was not giving her the attention or the appreciation that she needed, and her kids were out of the "needy" ages and were moving on with their own interests. The stage was set, almost too perfectly, for a WAW scenario.
In the Spring of 2008, my wife convinced me to splurge on another Germany trip for her and the kids. I was feeling a little guilty about my neglect of her and I knew that another trip home would do wonders for her spirits, so I agreed. My daughter was enrolled in cheerleading and couldn't go, which made my wife furious with me since I supported her and would insist on her going with my wife. I ended up staying home with my daughter while she and my boys flew to Germany for 12 weeks (June-Aug). At first, we e-mail almost every day and called on the weekends, but before too long the frequency of our communication started to drop off. I stayed in contact with my boys via IM and they told me that my wife had met a guy from her past, an old schoolfriend. I was a little alarmed, but I thought I knew my wife well enough that she would be faithful to me while she was away. As the days and weeks ticked by, the reports I was getting from my boys became more and more troubling, and the communication with my wife almost completely stopped. She was spending more and more time with this guy, she was staying out late, she was sleeping over at his house, etc. Before long no one knew where she was or what she was doing. My boys were at Grandma's house for days without seeing her. even her mother started feeling the dread that something was going on. As these things started filtering their way back to me, I started taking stock of my life and analyzing what was happening. It wasn't a very hard analysis to make: if I continued on the road I was travelling, I was going to lose my wife and my family! In fact, she was already out finding my replacement! I needed to change, and fast! The first change was the easiest for me: I quit playing computer games... cold turkey. Since Jul 2008 I haven't played once and don't feel any compulsion to ever again!
Next, I started reading everything I could on how to save my marriage: this is when I picked up DB and DR and started consuming them. My wife and boys came back in August. Unfortunately, I was not in my right mind at the time and I foolishly suggested to her that, if she wanted, we could get a divorce. It was a terrible backslide on my part, but the damage was done and the seed was planted in her mind that I was at least ammenable to getting a divorce, if not outright supportive. She continued to carry on her A with her friend, spending hours a day talking to him on the phone and texting. Of course, she claimed that they were "just friends". I was so desparate to hold on to her and so afraid to cause any more conflict with her for fear of driving her away that I bought her shallow explanations and excuses. I now knew our marriage was in more danger than I had originally thought, but I was so dependent on her and so afraid of losing her that I didn't want to rock the boat.
In October her friend came to the US for 10 days to visit her. She claimed to me that he was gay and used that as justification for wanting to stay in our house while he was here. I was still afraid of losing her so I consented but insisted that he stay in the guest room. Despite my wifes' dislike of Oregon, for the next 10 days she escorted him around the local area showing him the mountains, the beach, downtown Portland, and other local attractions. They stayed overnight at a hotel at Cannon Beach, and at a cabin at the KOA. I was happy when he finally went home and my mother-in-law came to stay with us. "My turn," I thought. Shortly after he left however, my wife hit me with the bomb: ILYBNILWY and IWAD. I was crushed. I did all the wrong things: I begged, pleaded, threatened, cried and all the things that you are not supposed to do. While she was still in D mode, she packed up all her household items and shipped them to Germany, all in the space of just 2 days! I look back on this as her "irrevocable step". She has not always had a strong will and I think she was afraid that the longer she was alone with her mom and I the more likely we could talk her out of her decision. By sending her goods away, she was ensuring that she would have to leave. Only after I backed off and let her cool down was I able to talk to her rationally. As her mother and Is influence began to remove some of the fog, she became less adamant about a divorce and we decided on a separation instead. She booked her flight to Germany for December and I geared up for some real hardcore DBing.
As the weeks went by and her attachment to her friend started to fade, I could tell she started to feel remorse for what she was doing. She would sit with me on the couch as we watched TV and let me massage her back, or hold her hand. Sometimes she would look at me and say "You have a crazy wife." which I always assumed meant that she knew what she was doing was wrong, but the die had already been cast and she needed to follow it through. I was hoping that I could forestall or prevent the eventual departure since we seemed to be making so much progress, but the week before Thanksgiving, she hit me with some bad news: there was a problem with her household good shipment and she needed to go home earlier than planned to deal with it. Instead of leaving in December, she and her mom left November 20th.
For the first month of the separation, it looked like she could return almost any day. Her mom told me that she would swing between depression about what she had done, to absolute ambivilance. She was living with her mom and dad, and they both were applying pressure for her to return to her family. This was causing her a lot of stress and she started acting erratic to her parents. In contrast, I left her alone for the most part, sending her the occasional e-mail to let her know how I and kids were doing. Inside, however, I was a wreck. I couldn't sleep or eat. I dropped from 280 lbs down to 230 lbs in a matter of two months. I tried to take care of myself, but I found that I was obsessing over her and her ralationship with her friend, despite the assurances from her and her mom that she had no contact with him. About a month into the separation, our daughter had a "breakdown" and my wife got notice of it. She made a deal with me that if I let our daughter come to Germany for 30 days to be with her, that she would come back home with her. Naturally I was elated and I readily agreed and had our daughter on a plane that week. My daughter was always a soothing influence for my wife, so I hoped that having her there and bonding with her would prove to be a good incentive for her to come home to her family.
A week before they were to come home in January, my wife called and said that she wasn't ready to come home yet and that she wanted more time. I was disappointed, but it didn't come as a complete surprise to me that she wanted to stay. She had moved out of her mom and dads apartment and now had her own place, which was only 15 minutes from her old friends' place, and about 45 minutes from her parents' house. Since she didn't have a drivers license or a car, she was pretty much reliant on taxis and friends for a ride if she wanted to go anywhere. She claimed that she loves living in Germany, and that it is her home and that she can't stomach the idea of coming back to the US. I agreed to give her more time if she would promise to give me an answer as to what she wants to do in 30 days. My daughter came home alone on January 20th.
The separation has been extremely hard on both me and my kids. My oldest son puts on a very strong facade and says that what happens to mom and I is our business and not his, but underneath it all I know he is hurting. He spoke to my wife a few weeks ago and told her what she is doing is extremely selfish and that she is not his mother any more, which I know was hard for her to hear since before the separation they had been best friends. My middle son is a lot like me: sensitive, cuddly, and a worrier. We have supported each other through the weeks and months that my wife has been fogged. My daughter and wife share a very close bond, a lot like my wife and mother-in-law, but that bond has been seriously damaged, too. Although they were close when my daughter was in Germany with her, her feelings for her have hardened as she continues to remain in Germany and away from the family.
I have transitioned to the LRT with my wife and not having any contact with her. I am working on myself and trying to deal with my own dependency and depression issues. I am now on anti-depressants and sleep aids, and have some scheduled time with a family therapist for the whole family. I am hoping that this marriage can be saved as I really do love my wife and I pray daily that she will come to her senses about the 3 wonderfui kids and the devoted husband that she is leaving behind so that she can live her fantasy life. I don't know if she is still seeing her AP or not, despite her assurances that he is a thing of the past. I tried to send him an e-mail telling him to back off about a month ago and he replied that he had deleted it without reading it.
If anyone has any advice for me about what I can do I would greatly appreciate it. I realize that the bulk of my sitch is similar to many that are posted here. The one unique wrinkle (as far as I can tell) is that her stated primary reason for staying away is her love of living in Germany and not wanting to live in the US any more. Of course, I believe nothing that she says and only half of what she does, so maybe that isn't so relevant.
Thanks!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
PD, I can't give you any advice regarding your living situation. But all I can say is your wife has gone through a lot of major stress adapting to new situations and new life changes many, many times over the years you've been married.
Your wife probably feels as if there is no support for her where you are at in Portland and probably feels very depressed.
Let me start out by asking you if you do love her. I have not seen you state that anywhere. If you do, the only thing I can suggest is that you respect her wishes. It could be that she just cannot take the constant moving around or living in Portland. Germany is her home, it may be she feels more comfortable there. She probably very well felt like you put her as a low priority in your life. I would very much respect the fact that she says she doesn't like living in the US right now. That might give you clues. Don't think that is a minor point here...it's coming through to me loud and clear. You have to attract her back. Or can you find a way to live in Germany? Where is the compromise here? She's followed you around for a long time now.
Have either of you talked to a C? Have you talked to a DB coach?
Keep posting. What have you tried to do DB-wise and what were the results? What has worked? What hasn't?
I replied to just bump you. I may not be able to follow you, especially in the next few days...am traveling for work over the next month. Don't give up hope and keep posting. I would really suggest you talk to pro-M coach or counselor if you indeed want this marriage to succeed.
Thanks for the bump and for the comments keyzblew,
I'll start out by saying that I do love my wife; at the risk of sounding like a total sap, she is the most important person in my whole life. In fact, I totally obsess over her. Just hearing her voice on the rare occasion when she calls is enough to salvage my entire day. I desperately want to work on our marriage and I want it to succeed. I know that I neglected her and made her feel like she was second-best for so long but now that I want to treat her the way that I should have been treating her for all these years, she has shut me and our kids out of her new life.
Thus far I have respected her wishes. I have given her time to be alone and the of course with her in Germany she has all the space and solitude that she wants. I don't initiate contact with her and I let her call me if she wants to talk. I still maintain a healthy dialogue with my mother-in-law who lets me know the goings-on as best as she can, but even she is now mostly separated from her daughter. I allow the kids to call her whenever they feel like it, but even that contact is seldom and has tapered off as the months have passed.
I'm pretty sure that our move to Oregon, and my invalidation of her wishes to move to Texas were both body blows to our already shaky marital foundation. Not only did it move her away from any support that she had in Utah with my extended family and her friends, but it also torpedoed the chance to get her parents to move in with us.
In my earlier pleadings with her, we talked about the possibility of moving to Germany to be together: I even looked at the prospect of finding a job there briefly. The biggest problem is that my german language skills are pretty anemic, despite being married to a native speaker for 18 years. My biggest reason for not actively pursuing a family move to Germany has been for the sake of our kids. My kids speak even less german than I do, which has also been a continual source of contention between us: she claims that I never supported her teaching the kids german, or encouraged them to grow up bilingual. I don't want to uproot them from the US and take them to Germany where they would be years behind their peers in school, especially since they would have to come up to speed with the language. I promised my wife that if she would come back for 6 more years, that I would study and improve my german skills by taking classes, reading books, having her tutor me, etc. and that we would go back to Germany together when the kids moved out (our youngest is 12). It is a promise that I am willing to keep because I do love her and I do want to grow old together with her, but it seems that she is now in the mode of not wanting to come back under any conditions.
We haven't received any C for our problems, mostly on account that she says she doesn't want to work on the marriage any more. She says that she is happy where she is and that she doesn't want to be married any more. I understand her sentiments and I do validate her wishes when I do talk to her, even though it hurts me so much. I just can't understand why she would leave her kids behind. Our current parenting plan would give me full custody of them and she would only see them for 6 weeks during the summer. Our kids were (and are!) her life and I just can't fathom why she would willingly remove herself from their lives so completely. I know that DB coaching would help me, but I am unsure how effective it can be since I am already in the LRT with her and it does not seem to be working. I guess it is time for the after LRT...
I don't intend to give up on our marriage. I love my wife too much to do that. She told me back in November before she left that if she found out that I was in any way sick or ailing that she would stay and wouldn't leave. At the time I was having an endoscopy for a lump in my throat: it turned out benign. Likewise, I have been treating this WAW situation as an illness of hers and I would never abandon her while she was sick or ailing, either.
Thanks again for your kind thoughts and ideas!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
I want to keep a diary of events as they happen. Is this the right venue for this? I have two days to catch up on.
Last Thursday was one of the best days of the last 6 months. My W called and out-of-the-blue said that she was coming home. She gave me her flight information and said that she was going to be arriving on Feb 21st. I was completely floored! All of the hard work, the tears, the sleepless nights, all seemed to be coming to an end. I backslid a little when I gushed to her that I was so happy she was coming back. I know that she doesn't want to live here, so I promised her that things were going to be better. She said little else except that she would call in a few days.
I immediately told the kids that their mom was coming home. Everyone was elated! The kids were all High-5'ing and my daughter remarked that it was the first time in almost three months that she saw a genuine smile from me. I was on cloud-9. as excited as I was, I was also scared... I didn't want to make any mistakes! I was planning and making my goals for the first few weeks of our reconciliation.
Sunday was a major setback: more than a major setback actually. She called me just as I was getting up and said that she was only going to be staying for 2 weeks and then she was going back to Germany. She said that she had been accepted to a German nursing school and that she missed the kids and she wanted to spend some time with them before her classes started. While she was here she also wanted to review our divorce paperwork and file it. To say that I was crushed is an understatement. I thought she was coming back to forge a stronger marriage and family with me...
I just don't even know what to do now.
/hurt/
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
DO NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING! I have not read your post but I am going to give you a piece of advice. The problem is still there and there is still work to be done.
Do not make the same mistakes I made. The hard work is really just beginning. forget everything you want and know and CHANGE the way you think and LISTEN to your wife.
I just learned things about my wife that I never knew after 16 years and already one separation and divorce papers. Now two years later I am back in and she is moving out and has picked up papers to fill out.
I know it seems strange but one day I just learned so much that I did not know and it was one day too late.
You must listen listen listen Forest Gump. :):)
The one thing I wish I would have done is checked in once a week for 15 minutes with my wife and just talked about her.
Again I have not read one word of your post but it came through the email and I had a feeling I should post.
I am very interested in what you are saying. Knowing that you haven't read the post (it is a pretty dense read), do you have any specific advice for me? I know that what I've been doing isn't working (LRT). Every day my W is building her new fantasy life without me or the kids and becoming more entrenched in our separation.
When you say that I need to listen to her, what exactly should I do? My conversations with her are already few and far between and when she does call she usually only wants to talk about the kids. She has become adept at deflecting and avoiding questions and comments about what she is doing.
Should I be calling once a week and checking in with her? Wouldn't she view that as trying to control or spy on her? I am tired of going down cheesless tunnels, so maybe this is something that I should try.
Thanks so much for the suggestion!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Sounds to me like she's basically made her decision....she's done and moving back to Germany. The only thing left for her to do is say goodbye to the kids and get the paperwork finalized. Obviously you should have clarified her purpose behind coming before you told the kids.
Since she's all business with this trip, I'd suggest that you NOT roll out the red carpet. I might even go so far as to ask, "where are you staying?" Seriously, ask where she is staying. If she said she intended to stay with you, then either say, "I guess you could crash on the coach or maybe one of the kids will give up their room" (unless you have a spare bedroom. I would not let her assume she has a place to stay with you. She needs to see you strong and confident. She needs to see that you are fully capable of moving forward with your life. She can't see someone that is needy, desperate, and like a puppy waiting to be pet. You've got two weeks to put some doubt in her mind...it won't be by kissing her butt. Show her a person that resolved his issues, but not one that is hers for the asking.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Two weeks is a short time but there is a big obstacle and that is she is from Germany and there is a lot of differences in he people and other items.
The one way I see you helping is listening to what she says and STOP thinking bout you.
Here is what I have learned. For 16 years I have been living my life and my wife has not been able to live hers. Not at all. It has always been my decisions she has had to deal with either good or bad. Never hers. I believe this is more about her now then I have ever known.
I have taken on hobbies and other things while she has done nothing. No hobbies no fun and why? Because she has always been the more responsible one and taken care of what I was f#$%^& up.
I also learned that she hates confrontation with a passion and will never yell or anything else and does not like people who are like that. I don't like being that way either so it will be easy for me to change. It is too bad I realized this now but at least I have and have a chance.
For you and your sitch you have other issues like Germany. But the main point is to really figure out what she has been saying and really look the issues. She has to see it for herself and she wont when you distracting her with neediness and wimpy man syndrome. Act as if and listen. Harder I know to say then do but you have to do it.
I have lost 14lbs in one week so believe me I know. I never knew the mind burns so much energy when its working.
Sounds to me like she's basically made her decision....she's done and moving back to Germany. The only thing left for her to do is say goodbye to the kids and get the paperwork finalized.
Thanks for the feedback Pd.
Yes, it does seem like this to me also. It just doesn't gel with me and what I know about her, though. When she talked to me on Sunday she was a little miffed that the kids hadn't called her to tell her how happy they were that she was coming home, even though she knew that she had only given half of the story. It seems to me that it was a test to see if the kids really wanted her to come back, when she knew that she was just going to crush all of our hopes.
As far as her accommodations are concerned, I really like your suggestion about her sleeping on the couch, or staying at a hotel, or sleeping in my daughter's room. Knowing her she will probably prefer not staying at the house, anyway.
Strong and confident is not something that I've been exuding much of lately, but I definitely see your point. I do need to show her that I am not the mopey, emotional, clingy person that I really am! I so need to GAL! MWD is so right that this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Thanks so much for the suggestion, Pd. I love this forum and I really value the advice! If I do manage to save my marriage, it will be because of your wise help and suggestions!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Shark: I really think there are a lot of similarities with my sitch and yours. My W really hasn't had much of a life outside of our family either. She really has been the one who kept the house running, the kids in line, paid the bills, did the landscaping on our house, etc. Me and the kids did our own things and had our own friends and activities.
I feel that she really started feeling like her life was unfulfilled now that the kids are getting older and don't feel like they "need" her anymore. In some ways, she is behaving almost more like a MLC than a WAW. The fact that she is enrolled in school and trying to build a meaningful life for herself is a clue to me that this isn't just about her EA.
You are right, though, that I need to focus on something other than myself. My kids are hurting right now, too. They need to be my first priority. Two weeks is an awfully short amount of time, but it should be enough to plant the "seeds of doubt" in her mind about her decision.
Some days I just wish I didn't love her...
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
