I'm going to share my story. I've been married since 2006. I had an extra-marital encounter in April 2008. I confessed to my wife right afterward. She said that she forgave me, and we never spoke of the issue after that. I remained faithful, and was truly sorry and told her so. I couldn't look myself in the mirror afterward, and truly tried to do what I could to be supportive.
We had a baby in May.
Her father developed cancer and died toward the end of the year in September. In July she became emotionally withdrawn with her father sick/dying. I tried to be supportive, not just of her but her family. I helped with the funeral arrangements, he left behind a lot of debt so I assisted my mother-in-law with bill collectors, and handling the estate process. I took time off from work to make sure she was taken care of, and helped her through that period.
My wife began seeking the company of the neighbor next door, hanging out with him, singing, dancing, drinking liquor (she had never been one to drink a lot), and basically flirting with him. She would ignore our daughter, or leave her in the guy's garage while she hung out with him.
So this started some arguments between us. And the more I tried to tell her to stop doing these things, the more she rebelled and said that I was "trying to make her stay home" and "keeping her from getting out of the house." I wasn't mean about it... I just said "Hey, a rumor is going around the neighborhood you are sleeping with him. I don't believe it - but I'd rather you spend less time over there."
She took this as a challenge to spend more time there. From November-December she spent more time there than she did with me, and when she was home she didn't want to do anything but go to bed. Eventually things came to a head before New Year's when she blurted that she "wanted out, she wanted a divorce."
I immediately dropped my anger because I was surprised. She said she'd been thinking about it for months. I tried asking about counseling, etc. in our first conversation about it. She said she wasn't interested, she didn't want to be with a guy who cheated on her, etc.
So I asked her to wait a couple of weeks to cool off before we make a decision. That lasted about two days before she was packing her bag and going to "stay with a friend." I told her she was welcome to go, but I was keeping our daughter. (I've got two sons from a prior marriage, we share a 9-month old daughter.) The next day I went to her mother's house. I agreed to let her keep our daughter, and got her to agree to go to counseling with our pastor.
When we met with our pastor, I told her in front of him that I loved her enough to do whatever it took to change, work things out, and I even loved her enough to let her go - there was no pressure if she wanted out. Meanwhile she was making mean comments towards me, accusing me of all kinds of crazy things, twisting our past around, saying she 'never' loved me, saying that she was never coming back, etc. She told the pastor she'd made up her mind and wasn't interested.
So two hours after that she said she was "tired of waiting" and wanted a divorce "right now."
I told her I would give her that, but I wanted joint custody of our daughter. She screamed that I was "forcing her to be with me" but I told her that I was giving her what she wanted, the least I deserved was to be a part of raising our daughter. She acted like she wanted to keep her 100% of the time and I could "come visit."
Anyway... she let me keep her the following weekend from Friday - Monday afternoon. Otherwise I've been visiting her mom's, and this past weekend she slept on my couch all day because she didn't want to leave her with me or something.
I told her I wanted us to work things out mutually, and file together so that we could get through this with a minimum of hurt for the children.
Guess who ran to a lawyer and filed a "He's an abuser! He's an adulterer!" divorce complaint?
Right... so now I'm going to have to hire a lawyer to protect my rights. She doesn't even seem to be aware of what the process is going to be.
So it looks like any DBing efforts are going to be sabotaged by the fact she's wanting to run a brutal legal complaint against me.
I'm cutting contact except to ask about our daughter, she comes to my house Mondays/Wednesday and I act polite/cordial but I've stopped asking her about our relationship/her feelings. She doesn't respond, and gets angry and rants about random things when I ask.
Meanwhile I'm cleaning, taking care of my two boys, and doing everything else I'm supposed to be doing.
She's acting like a stranger. Vindictive, mean spirited, suspect OM - but I don't have anything but the usual "42 signs" or whatever. Her entire attitude/behavior has shifted to where she is acting like she's on an emotional high and nothing can bother her.
So... I dunno - any suggestions? I'm going to be filing my counter-claim for custody and all of that. Not sure if the reality will set in or if she'll be in la-la land for the duration. Otherwise I'll do the other things such as cutting contact, working on my family, taking care of myself, etc.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Hi, welcome to our community even though it is under these circumstances. I will get right to the point and say that I think you certainly have a WAW and if she is not in a PA with the neighbor then she is in a very deep EA with him and has a fantasy that they will live happily ever after.
If she was drinking and leaving the baby in the garage while she was hanging out with him.......and if you have anyone that could testify to that, then I think she is the one that needs to be concerned about who gets custody. I don't know the laws in your state but it doesn't sound like something a Judge would think too highly of a mother doing. You mentioned rumors in the neighborhood, so I bet some of the women around have been watching what has been going on. Don't know if they could prove she left the baby in the garage, but they may be able to tell you some other things you don't know about if you could talk to them. They might not want to get involved, guess it depends on how well you know them, etc.
In the meantime, I would not worry as much about DBing as I would getting custody of my child if I were in your shoes. I think I would pull any plug I could to prove that she has not been the mother she should be. I know she can say you were unfaithful, etc. first, but it is not like her being in charge of the welfare of her child and instead indulging in the EA. You said she did this even while you were home? Did you keep the little girl while she was over at the OM's or did she take the baby with her?
I am also wondering why you allowed this to continue. Didn't you know what was going on? Did you feel that you had no right to say anything b/c of your own A?
There is always hope. There have been M's that was in as bad of condition as this and managed to work out. However, it will take a long time and much, much patient and work. The first thing that has to stop is her EA with the OM and she doesn't want to stop that. You may have to go through with the divorce and give her time to hit rock bottom with the OM before she will come back around. Sometimes, that is what has to happen. I hope not, but she sure sounds determined.......and almost like she could flip out if pushed very hard. Have you noticed that her personality changed overnight as soon as her dad passed away? She probably needed counseling and chose to to this instead.
Well, keep coming back to post as often as you can. You can go to other people's threads and post to them to help build up your support group. I'll check back with you.
Take care, Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yeah, at the very least it has been an EA because he has been more informed of the goings on in our relationship than I have in the past several months. He is a loser, drinks from 5:00pm - 3:00am most nights, and basically just parties when he is off. He lives with his parents... so no stability there.
I work full time, and most of the time last year I was also taking night classes while working on a business degree. So I wasn't home except for 30-40 min between arriving and going to school, then coming back around 8:00pm. During those times she spent her time there.
On Fridays I didn't have school - but I'd arrive home at 5:30pm or so and she'd always be over there. Some nights I would have my daughter, and some nights she would take her there. She would come home the first couple of months when I got back, but later on she would start going over there all the time and we didn't spend any time together. When it was summer I didn't mind our daughter being over as much, but as it got colder she continued going - or she'd walk out the door leaving our daughter hanging out of her swing and not tell me she was leaving. Just things like that.
As far as "allowing" it... I tried to reason with her at first. Then I tried arguing. Then it became a constant struggle. I'd say "please spend less time there." and she would run around the neighborhood saying that "He never wants me to get out of the house."
Eventually she just started lying about where she was and where she was going. I'd pull up at the house and she was running back over to our house. I'd tell her I'd be home at 6:00pm and show up at 5:30pm and she'd be over there and come running back when I pulled up.
And yeah... I'm acting nice, cordial, etc. She was here when I got served the divorce complaint. I read it, sighed, and just put it on my desk. I didn't react to her at all, just spent time with my kids and whistled "Oh Susanna" while fixing sandwiches for my boys. She acted guilty/etc. then started acting nice offering to buy me fast food if I was hungry. I told her no thank you, asked how her day at work was, etc. but basically am dropping any and all attempts to reason with her at this point.
I think once reality sets in she will be more reasonable. But right now she's in the "throw everything in my face" mode. I'm just going to watch my tail legally, and do the smart thing. This isn't my first custody rodeo - I'm just disappointed she filed after telling me to my face she was wanting to mutually divorce and work things out.
Her personality change started around July. She started taking everything I said personally, started building a list, started withdrawing. By the time her father had died, I felt like I was barely able to help her - so I started focusing on helping her family through the time. By the time November/December rolled around she was acting completely irrational - and I was getting upset as well. It wasn't until the "bomb" went off before New Year that all of a sudden she went from "sorrowful, just ain't gonna work, but I want us to be friends" mode to "I hate you, never loved you, and want to do anything you say not to do in order to spite you" mode.
January was hell, but I adjusted fairly quickly because I've been through divorce/custody/etc. before (have full custody of my sons) and I'm not completely 'lost' on what to do.
She works at a daycare, and would have tons of references with her behavior there. She always does good in front of people - it was just her behavior at home that was negative.
For instance, here she barely shows any emotion to the baby - but at her mom's she's buying gifts, doing all the attention "I'm a good mother" things.
I had asked her about postpartum depression and getting checked up, her response was "I don't want to hurt my baby!" and packing a bag and leaving.
She was the sweetest, kindest, gentlest person I'd ever known and I felt I'd lucked out marrying her. Now I'm stuck dealing with someone who is irrational, on an emotional high, and wants to see me hurt - yet still act nice towards me about it.
Any suggestions of counseling/doctor visits/etc. have been rebuffed and I have stopped trying.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
P.S. I live in Alabama which allows Adultery as grounds for divorce. Under our state law however, Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse + cohabitation with another. I just had a one-night stand. Also the physical/mental cruelty is just a b.s. tactic for her to claim custody. I basically work 40 hours per week, and then go to classes at night. Wasn't home enough to be cruel.
Either way... I can't stop the divorce, but I'm not going to let her play on that playing field. She can talk a lot - but she's got to prove her case, and she has no evidence.
Me on the other hand... I may counter-file using the emotional affair as mental cruelty and anguish. So much for divorce busting...
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
I believe that she certainly needs to see a doctor about her mental and emotional state. What did she mean she did not want to hurt her baby?
I wish you had some of those things documented. As you said, you've been through this before and know what to expect. Hope you get a shark lawyer. It's not that I want to see her hurt, but thinking of the baby more than anything.
When reality hits her, it is going to be bad and she will either hit rock bottom or find another man. I doubt if the neighbor guy will have her if he is with his parents and can't even support himself. That will be her first wake-up call. If you get the daughter, that might be another reality check for her....I hope so. Wished her mother could talk her into seeing a professional, but if she has her fooled, then she probably can't see it.
Anyway, try to still come here and vent, if nothing else b/c it does seem to help to have people listen to your problems and there are a lot of people here that have been through what you are dealing with.
Take care and I'll check on you tomorrow. Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I don't know what she meant. I've been keeping a written journal of everything that has and is transpiring. I've been collecting whatever evidence I can of her behavior/my time with the baby/etc.
I've hired an attorney, but otherwise am going into distant mode. I'm going to be nice, cordial, ask about the baby, and otherwise talk about the weather and her day at work. I'm not initiating any contact, letting her contact me.
And yeah... reality is going to hit at some point. She seemed fully convinced that by her lawyer filing papers that talked nasty about me that she would be divorced in 30 days and move on with life.
It could have been that way... but she chose to go the dirty route. We'll probably have two more anniversary's roll around if she continues fighting.
Her mother is extremely defensive. She just says "There is nothing wrong with my daughter." when I mention things. When I talked about her self-cutting, etc. from high school she says "That is just what kids do nowadays."
I dunno... I figure she wants this to be a contracted process because she's already got OM but doesn't want her mother to find out because her mom won't continue paying for a lawyer. Her behavior, activity, etc. seem to fit the profile of someone who is running around.
I should know. Anyway... just venting. I'm going to be nice, cordial, and completely distant. Maybe she'll wake up at some point and think about what she is doing.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
My wife is fairly young, and I don't think she really understands this whole process. She is allowing herself to be led by a lawyer.
She has been acting nicer since I've disengaged. I've quit initiating contact, I'm waiting 10-15 minutes before responding to text messages, and I'm basically acting nice/cordial in asking how her day was, etc.
Ultimately she is just going to blow through a bunch of money, cause a bunch of hurt feelings, and basically create an unhealthy environment between our families. I don't know why she is doing what she is doing outside of spite.
I'm having to basically disengage as much as I can outside of seeing/checking on my daughter each day. My wife still (at the moment) comes to my house on Mondays/Wednesdays in order to watch my children while I'm in class.
She tries to make small talk, and I engage in how far she wants to go and no more. Basically I'm shutting down on her emotionally, and I'm not sure if she thinks that is a good thing or not. All I know is that I'm no longer fueling her fire by talking about our relationship. However - if this divorce turns ugly I'm pretty sure that will be enough fuel for her.
Any more advice on how to walk a tight rope?
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Discovered OM. Spouse doesn't know that I know. She's still pushing divorce. She spoke to me Friday about counseling, working together, joint custody, etc. Then after spending the weekend with him she's full of piss and vinegar, wanting to start arguments over every little thing, etc.
I'm not going to confront her due to the legal situation she created. But I'm just focusing on me and the kids, making positive changes, and doing what I can to be a better person.
The OM is a real piece of work... alcoholic, lives with his parents, changes oil for a living, has tens of thousands in debt that he gets harassed constantly over, etc. She's completely and totally infatuated to the point where she left my house Friday being friendly as could be, drove to a grocery store parking lot, jumped out of her car, jumped in his, and drove right back to his house next door to mine.
All on film. She left at 6:30am and was dropped off back at her car.
Tough break... but I feel it is best not to confront her except through my lawyer. I don't see a 'real' relationship working for them, but the fantasy thrives.
I'm sure reality will hit when her lawyer asks her about it after I counter-file.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."