OK- The next few posts are going to be me posting some stuff that was recovered from a thread that went missing. I'm reposting it here because I want to have access to it, and I want anybody else who might happen to come this way (especially any newbies) to have access to it as well.
<Beginning of Post>
Ok T2- this is what I wanted to say to you on Trapt's thread before we were so rudely interrupted... (and any response will have to wait until I get back from lunch! )
Originally Posted By: T2SP
Love scares me now.
Originally Posted By: trapt
God is love. Are you still affraid?
Yes I am still very much afraid. Not so much afraid of love, it is the having my heart broken again that scares me.
Originally Posted By: trapt
Quote: How do you learn to trust the next guy/girl?
The same way you learned to trust him in the begining. It doesn't come to anyone in a day. It takes time and it takes overcoming your fear.
Trust in the beginning was not hard at all. I was 19 years old and he was 16..YES, I freaking robbed the cradle. How could I not trust he was a baby just stepping out of his mom's nest.
Originally Posted By: trapt
Quote: The past is the past.
The only reason to bring it up would be to intentionally hurt somebody, why? especially if they were truely remorseful. You have to leave it where it belongs.
Easier said than done. I was hurt the last 4 years so now it is his turn. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
Originally Posted By: trapt
Quote: Is there such a thing as 100/100? Isn't it usually a give and take world?
In a perfect world yes. Perhaps I should have worded this better. There is such a thing as trying your best, if her best means only 85 because life happens, then so be it. I guess for that day mine will be 115. However I would expect her to do the same for me if ever I needed a little extra. And unfortunately we DON'T live in a perfect world.
T2, dear: your responses (both overtly and otherwise) say to me that you are still hurting very badly. And no one can blame you for that at all! I can see from the language you use and the conversational tones you project in the language of your posts that you're running the whole gamut of emotions: anger, resentment, frustration, bitterness, and a deep seated desire to "make/see him pay"! This is all to be expected, and it's part of the process.
Maybe you'll benefit from a realization I discovered about myself yesterday that I want to share with you (and everybody else here, for that matter!)
I was reflecting on my sitch yesterday. Since we all hope that one day our spouses will "wake up", and take a long, hard look at themselves and what they were doing to us, I decided to try the same thing for myself. After all, how can I expect my W to do it if I won't?
And I came to a surprising conclusion that I hadn't realized about myself that had been staring me in the face for all these years.
I was expecting my W to validate that I am "loveable".
When we first met, I had no self-confidence. I had just recovered from having been cheated on and betrayed by my first love (who, I found out after the fact, was not worthy of my love in the first place!)
She picked me up, dusted me off, and made me feel good. We fell in love. Life rolled along great! We spent many happy years together both before and after we got married.
Then came the MLC.
Does the fact that my spouse went into the MLC tunnel mean that I am less loveable than I was before?
No. It means that my spouse has issues that they need to clear up for themselves.
Am I at fault that my spouse went into the tunnel?
No. From what I have read and what I have learned from talking to the people who have been through both sides of MLC, my spouse was going to have to deal with these issues sooner or later. Whether they were with me or someone else, or even if they had never met me or another.
Does my spouse reflect my value as a human being, or my "loveability"?
No.
Not anymore.
Not now that I have recognized for myself that I don't need my spouse to validate anymore the fact that I am a "loveable" and worthwhile person- they already did that for the past 2 decades.
Don't make your stbx your validation tool. For one thing, he's too busy "working on him" now to be there for you. For another, you already know that you're loveable- he's shown you that before his issues began.
This whole MLC process makes us confront our fears- of being unloveable, of being "not good enough", of being alone. But when we finally get to the point where we're whole in ourselves- that's where we will truly bloom.
The old addage remains true, no matter if you're the MLCer, the LBS, or anybody else...
"No matter where you go, there you are."
When you get to the point of being whole in yourself, you won't have to live in fear anymore because you'll have everything that you need for YOUR happiness. Everything else is just icing on the cake.
Be the best you that you can be, and everything else will fall into place.
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
Now I have to go get the tissues and sit in the bathroom until my eyes are no longer red!!
Jimbo...you hit the nail on the head though. I am hurting. I am trying to deal with things. Right now, I hope he rots in hell. He isn't trying to work on himself. He is out there with his new woman playing house and putting OUR kids in 2nd place next to her fat @$$ and her kids.
T2- You have every right to feel the ways that you do. But, believe it or not, he IS working on himself right now...the difference is that (and you were absolutely right in your wording of this) he isn't TRYING to work on himself. This is happening because there are unresolved issues from the past in his psyche that he has been suppressing for YEARS that are now coming to the surface because they need to be resolved. It really isn't a choice that he made to face this as much as a compulsion from his subconscious to resolve these issues. Think of it like cheating on your homework to get into the next grade- his conscious mind thinks its pulled a fast one and gotten out of doing the work. But then he gets into the next grade level, and then finds out that the stuff that he cheated on is a core basis that he needs to build on. The foundation isn't strong enough, so...back to the previous grade to "review the lessons" and pass for real.
Originally Posted By: T2SP
Am I suffering? YES. Are my kids suffering? YES. Why should he be able to just pick himself up and enjoy life again?
I know it sure doesn't seem like it right now, but he isn't getting away with anything here. The OP is a band-aid: a diversion from the real "homework" that needs to be done. He doesn't recognize this right now, of course, because he's "in love". But sooner or later, those giddy feelings of the first blushes of "love" will give way to the same old feelings that he's been trying to run away from. Then he'll either face them, or run away again...to repeat the same process over and over until he "does the homework".
Can you see why this takes years?
Originally Posted By: T2SP
Oh he is paying all right. I am far from financially stable but I am better off than him. He shot himself in the foot when we did the settlement papers. He gave me everything. I get the house but at what cost? Struggling to make ends meet. He thinks he did me a favor. Sell? Out of the question. The market sucks right now and I wouldn't get much for it. Besides, our papers state if I sell within the next 4 years I have to share the profit. No thank you. I will eat bread and water for the next 4 years to pay the mortgage before I do that. 4 year and 1 month and maybe then it will go up for sale.
Child support..he is paying more than he had to but again, he came up with the number. He was thinking too much with what is in his pants than his brain and wanted things done quickly so he came up with the number. On top of this, he pays the girls health insurance and 50% of what it doesn't cover. He has to pay for 50% of anything the girls need for school (books, papers, clothes, etc) I was told all of this goes along with the child support but I figured if he wanted it bad enough, he would agree.
It is written that he pays child support until the girls are out of school...not turn 18. So, if they go to college...HAHA on him, he still pays me this amount.
I get his life insurance...he is worth more to me dead than alive right now. Not that I would wish him any harm. Well, maybe a little harm but I don't want him dead.
I love it when he complains he is $300 in the hole every month. I struggled the last 4 years while he was out going to NY with his OW, going on vacations to the beach just about every weekend. He spent all his money and now let him suffer. Good for him.
All of what you've said here is a perfect example of one of the points I'm trying to make. Is your stbx stupid? I highly doubt it. Yet, as you have shown, he's made some truly irrational decisions here which seem to be biting him in the @$$. If the shoe were on the other foot, and YOU were the one who was leaving HIM for supposedly greener pastures, wouldn't you want to make sure that you got a nice little financial nest egg from the D to start again with? Even speaking as a man, if I were "thinking too much with what is in (my) pants than (my) brain and wanted things done quickly", I would want to make sure I got the best deal I could...but that's not what's happening here. Why? Because he's too busy spinning on the maelstrom of emotions generated by the subconscious memories of the unaddressed issues running around in his mind that he needs to address...all of the "homework" he needs to finish still lies waiting....
Originally Posted By: T2SP
He thinks he can give me money and it makes everything ok. He thinks we can remain best of friends throughout all of this. What really freaks me out is he trys to talk to me about his OW. I don't want to hear that. It hurts that he found someone and is out there enjoying life when I have to be the responsible one and raise the kids.
More examples of his irrationality. Why would anyone in their right mind think or do ANY of these things? The real answer is that they wouldn't- he's not in his right mind now. The truth of the matter is that there's not enough room in his head right now for anybody other than himself- HIS wants, HIS needs, HIS desires, His thoughts, HIM, HIM, HIM!
Which, of course means that it's REALLY unlikely that this OP is going to last for him. How long can someone put up with someone else's self-centeredness in a REAL relationship?
Originally Posted By: T2SP
Ok, so you see where my mind is right now. I cover all of this up good and try to pretend to be happy go lucky all the time. I suppose I could get an A for acting.
You've done really well at this. There is a lot to be said for restoring your happiness by "acting as if". But you also need to respect your grieving process, too. Have you cried your eyes out until the tears won't come anymore, or have you bottled up all of this emotion- the hurt, frustration and anger?
Everybody's first thoughts are to say, "I don't want to feel this". It sucks. It hurts. BAD. You will do anything to avoid the pain. But confronting the pain is the FIRST thing you need to do. Let it out. Let it go. Release it. And in releasing it, you honor yourself.
You honor yourself by honoring, acknowledging, respecting and accepting your feelings.
How can you hope to honor, acknowledge, respect and accept others until you can do the same for yourself?
Originally Posted By: T2SP
It isn't as easy as everyone seems to think. I'm not the type of girl that can get out there and meet people, get to know them and date. I am very shy when it comes to that. (ok, so no one believes that but it is true) I use my personality to over compensate what I lack in self esteem. Dating as a teenager was hard enough. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.
I did the same thing . I developed my sense of humor as a deflection for my poor self-esteem. It got to a point where it really hurt me socially, because people then felt like I couldn't be serious. So then I became extremely extroverted, figuring that people would be too involved with reacting to my presence to find fault with me as a person. Wrong again- I wound up being too overbearing for folks to handle. So I finally gave up, and accepted that no one was going to ever give a rats @$$ about me as a person. And then a miracle happened....
In being me, I found acceptance.
And you know what? Life is SO much easier. I don't have to put up a front. It's really funny, too. Because people are attracted to what they think they can't have, I never seem to run out of friends. Everybody seems to be attracted to the one thing I have that they don't feel they can have....
The ability to take off all the masks and just be who they are.
Have faith in others that they will accept you. Give them a fair chance. Have faith in you as a person, by putting yourself in social situations that let people get to know you. Dare to try it. It really does work. And it's SO nice to be able to "just be you"!
(And as far as your shyness goes, I'll let you in on two little secrets: 1) People love to talk about themselves. Let them. The interaction practically conducts itself. Secret number 2 comes a little farther down...)
Originally Posted By: T2SP
At times I feel selfish because I want to be the one out having a good time and not having to deal with the girls. I feel bad when I get that way. My kids come first and always will but damn it, I need some fun too. That Saturday we all got together, I wanted it to last forever. That was the most fun I have had in a long time.
Being on the computer with all of you is my fun. I have been a homebody for so long, I don't have many "close" friends to do things with. It was always me, Kevin and the girls. We did everything together. The girls are getting older and one day it will just be me and that scares the crap out of me.
Don't feel bad for wanting to take time out for you. Just because you have responsibilities doesn't mean you have to be an automaton. GAL, girl, GAL! Be the friggin' GAL gal! Explore your interests and make friends along the way. And when you do this, you'll become a more rounded person and you'll find that you can be OK with just yourself. And that's the point- to be comfortable enough with you to know that, should you decide to enter a relationship with someone else, it will be from a place of personal strength, rather than of need or fear. It's only through taking care of ourselves that we become capable of taking care of others...(and, incidentally, strength of character is also a very attractive trait, I am led to understand... )
Originally Posted By: T2SP
I'm sorry for hijacking trapt but I feel so much better getting this out. The tears are coming just as fast as I am typing. The anger is pouring out of me. I can feel it coming out of my pores. I am starting to feel light again.
Honor your feelings by expressing them!
Originally Posted By: T2SP
Jimbo, I don't feel less loveable. I feel less wanted. I feel like no one wants me. Who wants an old lady with kids. I have had men tell me no one looks for divorced moms. How do you think that makes me feel? I hate rejection now. I fear rejection.
When you say that you feel less wanted, I can read this in many different ways- how do you mean it? Less worthwhile? Less accepted? Less sexually desireable?
If you mean less sexually desireable, I think I can help you with that. Are you ready for secret number 2? :
2) There are guys out there who are actually turned on by shy women!
Even shy women with kids. Believe it!
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
It's true- you really do get out of the process what you put into it...and then some. And I've gotten so much out of our interactions, that I can never hope to repay.
Thank you for being there for me, man!
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
See y'all after!
