Don't know whether to give up

[mlawd1]

Brief description of my sitch:

W came to me in April and said she wanted to start having some fun with friends. Felt as if she could never do that. She went on two beach trips with the girls and went to a work related trip. Upon return from second beach trip, we had a huge fight about her going all the time.

Next day she told me she was moving to her dad's cabin until she could see I had changed. I was jealous and controlling and all that stuff according to her.

Ater a couple of days, I figured she had calmed down some and I went to the cabin to see her. We talked and one thing led to another and we wound up in bed. I figured it would be like other times and she would be home in a couple of days. She called me the next morning and sounded great, but I was very busy and could not talk. By the time I was able to call her back, she had changed her tune and was saying the night before was a mistake and she was not coming home.

She continued to live at the cabin and became closer to a work friend of hers that I had always knew was trouble. This woman is divorced twice and does not have the best reputation. I did practically everything in the book wrong. I begged and pleaded and demanded she stop hanging around with this woman if we were going to have a chance.

Things rocked on and things started looking a little better. Towards the end of June, she started talking about us and things that seemed long term. I actually began to think she would be coming home any day. She even mentioned marriage conseling and wanted to know would I try. Of course I said yes and she said she would set it up.

She had made plans with our youngest son to attend a 4th of July celebration that a friend of ours has every year. On the night of July 3rd she called me and said her plans had changed and she was going out of town to visit her college roommates and could I keep our son. I did and went to the cabin the next day to get him and she and I talked and kissed and she said she would call me when she got there.

I now know that she actually went and met another man that her friend had introduced her to. They spent the weekend together and upon her return she immediately asked for a divorce. I was in shock and just went along with things.

Our divorce was final on October 9th. She cried through the whole hearing and was not even able to answer the judge. When I dropped her off at our house, she hugged me and said she was sorry and could we be friends now.

Ever since the divorce, she has constantly come up with reasons to justify why we are not together. She sends long text messages about anything that confirms her belief in what she did.

At times she has been almost on the verge of saying what she has done is a mistake. We have even kissed on a couple of occasions and she has stated she could see us dating at some time. OM is still in the picture, but she seems to be trying to distance herself from him. She says she is really enjoying being able to do what she wants and being alone when she feels like it.

I know I need to detach and start working on me, and I am doing that. She is watching because she makes comments about changes she notices and also when I do something that reminds her of why we divorced. Lately, she seems to be detaching because she is not contacting me like she was.

She says her heart is hard and she has built a big wall that is hard to penetrate. I would love nothing more than to start new with this woman and be the husband she has always wanted. Things just seem so hopeless right now and I don't know what to do.

Would love to hear from still hopeful and Ready2change
Thanks

[still hopeful]

Hello my friend. I am sorry to meet you here. First and foremost, now is NOT the time to give up. I will do my best to impart to you what I have learned from all of my mistakes in working to reconcile my M.

we had a huge fight

One word. Don't.

I was jealous and controlling and all that stuff according to her.

Her perception. Don't defend or justify yourself. You cannot win the battle over her perception; it's all in her mind.

We talked and one thing led to another and we wound up in bed. I figured it would be like other times and she would be home in a couple of days. By the time I was able to call her back, she had changed her tune and was saying the night before was a mistake and she was not coming home.

Be VERY leery of any intimate interactions with XW. She is thoroughly confused, as mine is. My XW's favorite tactic is to blame shift. She tells me that I am to blame for her actions. Now, if that were true we'd still be married. A confused person spends a lot of time 'editing' the past to add to their evidence of reasons they chose to D you.

She continued to live at the cabin and became closer to a work friend of hers that I had always knew was trouble. This woman is divorced twice and does not have the best reputation. I did practically everything in the book wrong. I begged and pleaded and demanded she stop hanging around with this woman if we were going to have a chance.

Good, you have the book. Now open it up and read it. Reading it will help you to lessen you missteps in the process upon which you are embarking. Don't talk about your XW's friends. Not only are they irrelevant, their reputations are even more so. XW is not a child and neither are you. Make this the last time. She's obviously gonna do what she's gonna do. And begging, pleading, and demanding are all no-no's.

Towards the end of June, she started talking about us and things that seemed long term. I actually began to think she would be coming home any day. She even mentioned marriage conseling and wanted to know would I try. Of course I said yes and she said she would set it up.

She had made plans with our youngest son to attend a 4th of July celebration that a friend of ours has every year. On the night of July 3rd she called me and said her plans had changed and she was going out of town...

The truth is in what she DOES, not what she says. It's easy to say things to you, your gullible like me. You want to believe that what she says is truth. Unfortunately, aliens have taken away your W, and they are busy reprogramming her mind. She will lie to you a lot because she doesn't want to hurt you, as though her current lies could really hurt you any more than the D has. Strange, but in their convoluted logic it all makes sense. Aliens they are. The sad part is that your son is caught in the crossfire. Protect him. He is the innocent in all of this mess.

I now know that she actually went and met another man that her friend had introduced her to.

OM is also irrelevant. He is competing with you. You have your whole R of memories and he has nothing. Right now they have 'junior high' love. It goes like this. STAGES: (1) We meet and know NOTHING about each other so both are 'perfect' to the other. That's the beauty of new; nothing real, no problems, no expectations, no disappointments. The whole relationship is a based on assumptions, guesses, and most likely roles. (2) They will do things together, go places, play, get to know each other, during their lunch time romance. Again, still not real life. Still perfect. Still playing roles. (3)If they get out of the lunchtime romance stage, they'll move into really getting to know each other. It's here that flaws crop up, expectations are developed, disappointments occur, lifestyle habits are displayed, etc. At this point, they still don't have a good understanding of this new partner, but the picture is beginning to become clearer. (4) Conflict arises from the unfolding picture, which tells both that their new 'junior high' love interest has issues (we all do). The best illustration of our infatuation with a new partner is John Cusack's rant in High Fidelity when he is arguing with himself saying, "The woman in the fantasy is perfect. She's perfect because we don't see all of the quirks and habits like we do in our existing partner. We don't see them because they aren't part of the fantasy! Of course the fantasy woman has annoying habits and quirks, but we don't see those...NOT in the fantsty!" You're XW will see 'prince charming's' quirks and habits. It's all part of getting to know someone new. You, like me, are divorced. Our W's decided that they didn't want the 'old' us. That is why you start making a new you; improving yourself, growing, reading, keeping your mouth shut. And (5) the problems in the 'junior high' love will generally root out the doorknobs. Your job is to be making a new, more attractive you which you SHOW to your XW through behavior not by telling her. I've been thru 4 BFs already and XW was talking to all of them about M. Is she married? No, just confused.

She cried through the whole hearing and was not even able to answer the judge. When I dropped her off at our house, she hugged me and said she was sorry and could we be friends now.

Good little actress, isn't she? Great performance to keep you on the hook for when she wants you. Worked on me. I've been on the hook for her, but I should only have been on the hook for my children, exclusive of her. I told XW in the very beginning that we would absolutely NOT be friends. She asked why? I simply told her there's no room in her stable with all of her other exes, and since I'm an XH I wouldn't want to be around them anyway. I told her I'll be friendly with you, but not friends. My suggestion right now is to let go. Phoenixdeux posted to me that letting go does not mean giving up. It simply means to stop treating XW as your wife and move on with your life as though reconciling is VERY unlikely to happen. Work on yourself. Check out books from the library. I use Amazon.com to look up books to check out. I like their synopses and reviews.

Ever since the divorce, she has constantly come up with reasons to justify why we are not together. She sends long text messages about anything that confirms her belief in what she did.

She needs to do this. Who the hell wants to admit that they used faulty logic and/or reasoning to get a D? No one does. She probably has friends, like my XW, who pat her on the head and a$$ and tell her what a good decision she made and how good she's doing as a single mom. Everyone wants to pile on the 'evidence' to further justify their decision, and the more irrational the decision the more 'evidence' that's needed to make it all seem like the right decision. My XW has tons of 'reasons' that destroying our family made more sense than digging in and making her marriage work no matter what.

At times she has been almost on the verge of saying what she has done is a mistake. We have even kissed on a couple of occasions and she has stated she could see us dating at some time. OM is still in the picture, but she seems to be trying to distance herself from him. She says she is really enjoying being able to do what she wants and being alone when she feels like it.

More lies and wishful thinking. She divorced you. You need to start showing her exactly what the divorce she wanted so badly really looks like. Surprise, here it is! I didn't get to this point until recently. I wish I had started my D out this way. Something's gonna give. Either she will want the opportunity to reconcile, and then it's your turn to be the one giving the answer. Or you'll find out that reconciling is a dead issue and move on with your life. Either way, you'll be acting the same way. disengaged and detached from HER.

DO NOT mind read. Stop guessing about what you think she's on the verge of doing. Let her show you through her actions. Do not chase her; not ever. I was told today, be strong and confident. Show her through your actions that you

want

her, but you certainly don't need her.

<SCOFF>Dating!?! I wouldn't even discuss dating right now. We're divorced dammit! If she wants to date, that would be fine, but only in an exclusive relationship with the goal of seriously working on your reconciliation. you would need to be clear about what you need to improve about you and what you need and want. You want to be certain that the mistakes of the last marriage are not repeated to ruin a new marriage. And remember, 'junior high' love boy is irrelevant. He's competing with the memories of you and all of you as a family. And 'trying' to distance herself from OM? What is this 'trying' BS. It's a new R! You don't try to get away from someone you are in a new R with. Lies, lies, lies. The truth is in what she does. Lastly, as my mother said about XW, if she wanted 'me' time she should have thought of that before she decided to be a mother, not after. It's not your son's fault. BTW, how old is he? Is he your only child?

I know I need to detach and start working on me, and I am doing that. She is watching because she makes comments about changes she notices and also when I do something that reminds her of why we divorced. Lately, she seems to be detaching because she is not contacting me like she was.

Yes, disengage and detach (D&D) and work on yourself continuously. What do you want to improve about yourself right now. Pick one thing. She will always watch, don't you worry about that, my friend. Accept the compliments with a simple thank you, and move on. The BS comments, more justification 'evidence' are to be ignored. If you must respond, respond with an 'OK.' Do not explain your decisions, simply think them through and decide. Do not defend or justify yourself, simply think your actions (or inactivity) through. Sometimes she may bring up a behavior that she feels justifies her decision to divorce. Regardless of what she says, take it in and mull it over. She may be saying something incorrectly or aggressively that has a kernel of truth that you may not be aware of about yourself that would help in your quest of self improvement OR you may realize that her 'issue' with you is really her own issue that really has nothing to do with you. Being calm, confident, and accepting will assist you here. Let her detach. It will make it easier for you to do the same.

She says her heart is hard and she has built a big wall that is hard to penetrate. I would love nothing more than to start new with this woman and be the husband she has always wanted. Things just seem so hopeless right now and I don't know what to do.

Her heart is hard? Is she Christian? You don't want to have to penetrate her big wall. You want her to demolish it on her own because she is drawn back to you from increased attractiveness to her because of all of you personal growth and self improvement. Your goal is to make yourself into a wedding present for her, should she decide the wants the opportunity to reconcile. QUESTION: Is she the wife that you always wanted? Take some time; think critically; be honest. If you had never married you XW, what attributes would you be looking for in a potential bride? This is your time to think of YOU! What do YOU need and want? Remember, those last 3 questions are about you soul searching for you to plan your future.

[mlawd1]

Tom,

Thanks so much for responding back. I hoped you would because I have followed your sitch and I admire your courage.

I wish I had found this site when we first split up. I did just about everything wrong in the seperation that I could have. At the start I truly believe she was trying to give me a wake up call and I pushed her away with all of the stupid things I did.

To answer one of your questions, I have two sons, ages 12 and 16. They are both great kids and have helped me so much through this. At first they had a hard time with their mom because they found out rather quickly about OM. She really did not try to hide it after divorce paers were signed. Same old crap about marriage being over for years so it really didn't matter. It did matter to them and they were very angry with her for a while. I have been ever so careful to not speak badly of their mother and have encouraged them to talk to her about things. That part seems to be better now.

I have remained close to my in-laws and they are completely devestated about things. Ex has only taken OM around them twice and it did not go well. Ex accuses me of using them against her. That is not the case, I have just always been close to them and we still are. My sil says ex tells her all the time she is tiring of OM and he gets on her nerves. However, she also told her that when OM spends the night he sleeps in one of the boy's beds since they are with me when he stays over. I know that is a lie so everything she tells her is a lie I am sure. What are your thoughts on remaining close to my in-laws?

Up until Christmas there was alot of contact from her and she would even come by my house some. Since then she has initiated very little contact. I guess as you said that is good because it makes it easier for me to detach.

My oldest son is on the high school baseball team and for the next three or four months we will be seeing each other alot at games. We have always had reserved seats and we do this year. She questioned us sitting together, but then said that would be ok. How should I handle this? I know it will mean alot to our son to have us both there.

I see this as time to show her some improvements in myself. I have always kind of kept to myself at the games and she has said I should talk to people more. I look at as I am there to watch a game, not socialize. I intend to spend alot more time talking to the other parents and getting more involved with the players. I see this as twofold, it will show her a new side of me, and it will keep us from being together for the whole game.

I will end with this. She has the kids this weekend and I possibly have a date and have also been invited to a super bowl party so I am going to enjoy myself.

Thank you so much for the advice and looking foward to hearing back.
Mic