Exposing at EA

[Still Waters]

It's tough EC. Tougher than anything I've ever done. So I have my "I'm done" days too. I really only discovered the full weight of my W's PA/EA last week, so it hasn't really all sunk in yet. Which is why it might actually be a good thing that we're separated right now. Because I'm in no state to see her. I need some time to cool off and wrap my head around what this means for me.

A few weeks, or a month or so, from now I may reach the point where I say I'm done, and actually mean it. But right now I know that if she came back to me and said she wanted to work on our marriage, I would. Despite all the pain, lies, and betrayal, I would give her a chance. And that's because I love her, and I feels strong enough to forgive her (in time).

But that's now. You know those scenes in movies like Star Wars and Indiana Jones when the doors are closing and the hero has to run to slide under them? Well, that's how I feel. I'm the doors, and I'm slowly closing up to taking her back. It's up to my W to decide if she wants to run over here and slide through before they close completely. Right now she's just standing there, not moving an inch in either direction. And I've come to realize that there isn't anything I can do to make her even care that the doors are closing. Oh I could certainly do a heck of a lot to make her go running further away. But there isn't anything I can do to change her mind, other than make what's on the other side of those doors something that no woman in her right mind would give up.

Unfortunately, WAS's aren't in their right minds, so even that might not make her budge.

For all these months since the bomb dropped I thought that the ball was in my court, and it was up to me to fix this. I thought that fighting meant trying to pull my W back to me. But that was the wrong way to look at it. The fight should be to save yourself. Because no one is responsible for your happiness other than you.

Which is why I've let go of the rope. It's still laying there on the ground, and my W has a chance to pick it up with me. But I don't think that I'll pick it up by myself again.

[pearlharbr]

Well put SW!

I love the Indiana Jones door closing analogy.

Totally understand your reason for disclosing W's A to her family. You did what you thought best in the situation, that's what we all are striving to do.

Keep up the good work.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Beautifully stated, SW. And GREAT ANALOGY.

[ECJay]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, SW. I get the "closing door" analogy. For me, my problem is that my wife would figure out a way to get those doors to stop closing at times. I mistakenly viewed that as her being willing to walk through them, but it's simply not the case... she just doesn't want them to shut (she wants the excitement of her EA and the stability and comfort that I provide).

What I had to do, for my own sanity, was to stop actively controlling the doors. I have since stepped back and put a time limit on them. They are now closing steadily without interference from me or from her. If she wishes to join me on the other side, she knows how much time she has to do so. If she can't or won't make that step, then the finality of it is on her shoulders.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hi ECJ, and welcome to the boards.

While I like the idea of setting a deadline with YOURSELF, I'm not a big fan of communicating that deadline to a wayward spouse. Because inevitably, they will continue to cake-eat until juuuust before your deadline, at which point they will promise you the moon and the stars not to go thru with leaving them (or filing, or whatever).

It's like telling the terrorists that you'll give it six months. They simply wait you out, and at six months and one day, they have their way.

Puppy

[ECJay]

Puppy,

It's hard to hide this deadline... basically, we moved to a different state this year for her job, and it didn't take her long to develop an EA with a new co-worker. It put me in a really bad place, because I'm isolated from my friends and family back in my home state. So since everything has gone down, I've said that I'm going to move back to my home state if things don't work. I've had a few false starts on that (due to her telling me she wants it to be over, and then feeling sad and having second thoughts the next day). This morning, I finally booked the airline tickets to go apartment hunting. Literally, she has 2 weeks to convince me that she's willing to make changes to get our relationship back on track. It will take a pretty dramatic gesture at this point, as I'm less inclined to fall for the waffling now, especially since she continues to have her EA unabated during all of this.

I can see what you are saying, though... I'm expecting an impassioned plea right before I leave. But you know what? As I alluded to earlier in this thread (sorry for the hijack, SW), I'm very very close to the point (if not there already) where I don't really want her back anymore. Frankly, I'm not sure she deserves it

-Jay

[sandi2]

Hi Still Waters. I have not joined in the conversation about exposing the A lately b/c I still have mixed feeling over some of it. I can understand why your SIL wanted to protect her dad. That is natural and I would have been the same way. It still hurts me to know that my H told my mother and she had to be caught up in things and suffer the pain she did. I won't go into all of that again, but I feel that somehow it would be very, very difficult for a father to hear from his son-in-law that his daughter was having an affair. Don't you? Think about that. It would be easier to hear it from one of the other daughters rather than the husband of his wayward daughter. Maybe that is just my thinking. But, I believe there is a special relationship between a father and daughter and a certain amount of his pride would be involved with you facing him and revealing to him how wayward his beloved daughter had been. It would probably distroy any future close relationship with you and him. I may have it all wrong, but his other daughter was very protective of him for a reason.

If you see no hope for the M and just want to bust the affair, then exposing it is about your only option, but it doesn't necessarily get the wife back in bed with you. I know I wouldn't.

I do see some cases where that would seem to be the logical option if you were just going to bust the affair. But, it is a painful one and usually a lot of innoncent people end up suffering a lot of pain.

I was about to think that you were unconciously trying to get her family to force her to stop the affair until I read where you could not stand to see the pain she was going through and you were worried about her health. I believe some H's refer to force as "family support". I admit that I wondered if that was your last resort--was to have her family "make" her stop the affair out of guilt or whatever it took to end it. But I have decided that you are sincere in that you were trying to do what you thought was best and not just to "fix" a situation you had no control over. The fact it, her family doesn't either. Oh, they can talk to her and shame her and it can cause a lot of hurt and disappointment.....but what has it solved? Will it stop the affair? Maybe. If it does, then what happens? If she does not go back to you, what happens to her and her family? How has that left them. You may decide to move on with your life, but what about her dad and her sisters? They will not be able to move on very well, will they? B/c as Puppy said, blood is thicker than water. She may be able to make them think she was the victim, who knows? It is a gamble either way you look at it, so it leaves me right back where I started.......should you or shouldn't you expose to family, friends and others?

I even thought she was putting on a good perfomance for you, but maybe at that particular time she did mean "part" of what she said. I have my doubts about all of it. There was a part where you described how she was pulling her hair and digging her fingers into her arms that brought back some bad memories. But, that could have been a performance also, b/c when we females get our emotions rolling.....we can really put them into a channeled force. In other words, we can make them "work" for us in how we want to be protrayed. However, I also remember how wishy-washy I was from morning till evening, so it is anyone's guess if she was sincere about what she said, or even if she was at that moment.....if it will stick. But here's the thing that I always look at. Whenever a woman is having an affair, and she "talks" like she is willing to suddenly stop and work on the M? I have serious doubts unless the affair is in trouble and looks as though it may end soon. B/c she is addicted and she is not going to be able to stop as easily as she thinks.....unless her lover has already dumped her---or else she isn't quite sure yet how things may go with him and she is still trying to hold on to a thread with you.....for security sake. I personally can't help but think that is the reason behind her wanting another month--is to see how things progress between the two of them. She thinks if he doesn't make a commitment or at least move up to another level in the R, then she will go back to you. If he does, then she will leave you.

So, a person could about lose their mind trying to figure out the thinking of a WAW involved in an affair. If I were you, I would not apologize for snooping or tell her it makes you sad that she was in so much pain and that you appreciate her honesty in sharing her feelings with you, etc. That part of the post you sent, I did not agree with. Who said she was being honest? Besides, why should you apologize for what you did to find out what she was doing....which was being unfaithful to you! Anyway, you only hurt yourself by making you sound like the bad guy and her the poor little WAW whose needs were not being met.

I know this has got to sound like a crazy mixed up post b/c I was all over the place trying to express my own feelings about something I have not fully settled on. I respect Puppy so very much and he knows that. I respect what he went through to save his M. But, as I said, I still have issues about some parts of the exposure. I know the wayward spouse is responsible for the pain that is brought about for her actions, but does that give the LBS the right to hurt other people by informing them of her actions? Plus, I don't quite see the LBS spreading the dirty laundry for everyone to see what a bad person she is in attempts to get her back in the M. That hardly makes sense to me, but maybe it works for some. If it is to bust the affair.....it may or may not work. I suppose I was raised to believe M problems was a private matter......even an affair. You worked it out between the two of you and you did not involve innocent people. I am not talking about having to lie to your family and things like that.....that is another matter b/c if it comes to that part....I don't believe in lying to cover their tracks. Again, there are some times that you have to do it.

I personally think that dropping the rope is your best option. That is JMHO for whatever it is worth.

Sorry for the jumbled up post. Hope it did not confuse you more.

Sandi

[Still Waters]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Sandi.

I think that none of us LBS really know what will or won't bring our WAS back to us. We just have to do what we think is right. Sometimes what we think is right will hurt our chances of saving our M, sometimes it will help. It's great hearing about everybody's stitch's on the board, but what worked for some may not work for others. Each stitch is unique.

Ultimately, I didn't expose to save my M. I did it to save myself. I just couldn't bring myself to drop the rope when I knew that my W was alone dealing with these demons. Was she putting on a performance for me? Maybe, but how am I suppose to know that? And I'd rather err on the side of thinking that she was being genuine and worry about her safety.

Getting her family involved was the only way I could drop the rope. If I didn't, I'd be sitting here right now worrying about my W, hoping she was OK, wanting to email or call her. It was just too tough for me to detach. True, my W may not let her family help her. But at least now she has that option.

My W's family is very loving and forgiving. They will let her know that what she did (is doing) is very wrong and that they are not okay with it. But they will forgive her and they will still love her. And that's why I told them.

The thing that I don't understand is why any of the pain that this affair has caused should be deflected back onto me. It was my W who had the affair and then lied, over and over, to me and her family. Will that damage her relationship with them? Yes. But that's not my fault. I firmly believe that it's always right to tell the truth. Allowing people to live in the dark to protect them, in my opinion, shows a lack of trust and respect for that person. That's the SAME reasoning my W used when she explained why she never told me about the affair. She didn't want to hurt me, she thought I'd rather not know. But really, she made it so much worse by not telling me.

I don't like the idea of protecting people from the truth. It never works in anyone's favor, because the truth always comes out sooner or later. And like Puppy said, cheaters always lie. So waiting for my W to tell them, to tell anyone, would have been like waiting for Godot.

And I also believe that trust can be rebuilt, on both sides of this. So even though my trust in my W has been severely damaged, and now my W's trust in me may have been damaged, that doesn't mean we'll never trust each other ever again. But, one thing that will destroy any chances we have at piecing this M back together, is an ongoing affair. Because like I said, the doors are closing.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I couldn't agree more, SW.

I know, Sandi, you're shocked, LOL.

Two months into my wife's affair, I made a decision. I concluded that -- as hard as I'd tried (and I'd exposed to several people, and took a VERY hard line) -- I could not stop my wife from continuing her affair. She was an adult, and it was her choice.

But I decided that I COULD insist that she tell the truth. I was no longer willing to have her lie to those we both love -- mostly to our adult daughters and to her own parents, whom I respect and love dearly -- and, worse, make ME out to be the crazy one.

And so I told her: either you tell them the truth, or I will, and I will use the evidence that I have.

And I told her she had 5 minutes to decide.

She decided to go tell her parents, and I went with her and held her hand. It was the first time she had spoken to her mother in THREE WEEKS, and these are two women who talk by phone, or see each other, every single day of their lives. I told my wife is NOTHING else happened, she would stop lying and her relationship with her mother was going to be restored, even if her mother didn't agree with what she was doing.

As I've posted before, my wife THANKED me for all the things I did to fight for our marriage, INCLUDING exposing her affair to our adult daughters and to her parents.

Puppy

[sandi2]

Dear Still Waters and Puppy, thank you so much for what you said. I am slowly coming around and seeing what the two of you have pointed out. Puppy knows that I was very strongly against exposing at first and I know now that it was out of my lingering guilt over my own EA. Still Waters, I did not mean to imply that you were to blame or that you were wrong in any of the stitch. I did not do a good job at writing the post and in fact, I thought I went back and deleted it b/c I knew it sounded so mixed up.....but apparently I didn't. Anyway, I appreciate what you had to say and help me see your side and your feelings. I do feel protective of elderly parents and guess I always have felt that way toward my grandparents and now my elderly mother b/c I know she doesn't handle problems as well as she did when she was younger, so I tend to want to shield and protect her. I have had to watch her age about ten years since she was told about my EA. But, that was my fault. I caused her pain and I have been blaming my H for telling her. I was not thinking of it being like lying to her by not telling her what was going on. I remember feeling that it was a private matter and that it should not include anyone else. Of course, my EA ended without ever meeting the OM in person or anything like that, but it still caused serious problems in my M. I was terrified that my grown children would find out and that I would lose their respect and what had taken a lifetime to build and instill in them would be shattered by my .........rather short-lived "craziness". Do you know that I went into that thing......I mean, I KNEW I was not doing the right thing by flirting and playing around, but I had never heard the expression of an emotional affair before I came here. I did not even think that that was what I was doing! That is how "out of it" I was! But, my H got my attention when he said that I had cheated on him and was unfaithful and had committed adulty in every way except the physical act. Then, this board got my attention and I knew I better get my act together. But, it was very hard and I realized and had to admit that I was actually addicted to the OM and all the ego food he was giving me. That EA was the fantasy that I hid in to get away from all the terrible stuff that was going on in my real life. So, I can identify with so much of the WAW's feelings b/c I had all of that. I even experienced what one might think of as a late MLC, if you can imagine that. But, I had those feelings and acted like some of the things I have read about. It embarrasses me to admit it. It hurts so badly when Puppy says that cheaters always lie. It is like a knife goes through my heart and I want to say, "But I didn't lie. Everytime he (my H)confronted me, I told him the truth". But the real truth is that I lied by withholding everything that was happening. So, you see guys, I am still having to deal with my own shame and guilt and it is the men on here that have helped me to see from your POV and helped me to learn and, I hope, to grow. As Puppy probably has read from past posts, my H would not go to counseling and he did not talk about things, so this was my therapy.....and still is. That is why I said that I have learned from reading what the men have said on the board.

The thing that I don't understand is why any of the pain that this affair has caused should be deflected back onto me. It was my W who had the affair and then lied, over and over, to me and her family. Will that damage her relationship with them? Yes. But that's not my fault. I firmly believe that it's always right to tell the truth. Allowing people to live in the dark to protect them, in my opinion, shows a lack of trust and respect for that person. That's the SAME reasoning my W used when she explained why she never told me about the affair. She didn't want to hurt me, she thought I'd rather not know. But really, she made it so much worse by not telling me.

I don't like the idea of protecting people from the truth. It never works in anyone's favor, because the truth always comes out sooner or later.

This really, really got me SW. If I said things the wrong way, ...and probably did,.....to make you think that I thought things deflected back on you b/c of what she has done......I did not mean it that way at all. I did not mean to paint you as the bad guy in the stitch b/c you certainly aren't. After you explained her family in this last post, I understand better how you were looking at them helping her and I see your love and concern for her welfare. However, I have seen families torn apart and also have nothing to do with the H involved after he exposed his W of the A. In some cases, the parents, especially, have a very hard time with it coming from the SIL. But, you know them better, so you have to use your best judgement. Also, I did not think of looking at disrespecting the parents by not telling them what was going on. Isn't it amazing how different people can think about things? But that is how we can learn from each other. In this case, however, I know that I was the student b/c I have learned from you and I do appreciate it. It still hurts and probably always will, but I want to think "right" about it and see what is the "truth" in how things should be done without putting my personal feelings into it. That is hard, but I will try. I am trying. It is facing the pain and huge disappointment that I know I have caused that is almost unbearable. If it had not been for God's grace and forgiveness.....and my H's love and forgiveness, I could not have contined to stay here and I'm not sure what I would have done....but I'm glad I did not have to cross that bridge. Even now, the tears are blinding me until I can barely see to type, but I have to deal with what I caused. To think what was such a short span of time out of my life and all the damage it did!!!

Anyway, SW, I pray that your wife can be helped and that she will find herself again. I do remember how horribly confused I was and the emotional roller coaster I was on. It is hell on earth even if some WAW's do not express that. I also pray that you will be happy and that however things turn out with the M, you can have peace in your life b/c the older you get, the more you realize that is about the most important thing to have.....is peace within your own soul.
Thank you for being so honest and so sweet in your response.

And, Puppy.......gosh, I don't even know where to begin with you....LOL. It was so very hard for me to see how a WAW could feel affection for a man that exposed her to everyone......and I know you and your W are still working on the MR....and always will as long as you live (as we all will). I want so badly for your M to be 100% successful! I think you know I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Thanks for staying around here. I was so afraid you were going to leave us......and look what you would have missed.

Well, I would not have written such a long post, but I know how much Pup loves them, so .......

Anyway, I'll let the two of you go for now....and thanks for the guidance.

Sandi