Back on the rocks

[heatherg]

It's been quite a while since I've been here....lots has transpired, all good. The last few months in particular, we have been happier than we have been in years.

The problem is that I was using his computer the other day to sign up for my iphone and I needed to go back to my alltel website and rather than re-type it, I used his google drop down so I could get back. But he forgot to erase his history. See, my H likes to look at pictures of other women. Naked. He particularly seems to like celebrities, etc. It's been a problem in our R before, he knows how I feel about it. It's like he's a stalker or something, it creeps me out. I am open to using porn together, we used to before I realized he was into other things as well, without me. At that point, I sort of put a taboo on everything because my lack of trust in him sort of made me shut down on the issue.
I've also caught him MB to a video called 18 & Ready to Fu@k. That of course was disbturbing to me on so many levels. First, 18? My daughter is 6 and I feel like I will always be uncomfortable with him around young, attractive women. Like he's always got other things on his mind when he looks at them, ya know? Another reason I found this disturbing was that I was in the other room asleep. H always stays up later than I do, he drinks quite a bit as well. I find it hard to go to sleep at times wondering what he's doing in the other room while I'm asleep. He immediately stopped what he was doing, I went to the DVD player, took out the DVD and broke it in half. I told him to never bring that crap into my home again.
The trust in my R has been broken and the worst part is that H gives it no credibility. He says I'm being ridiculous, it has nothing to do with me, it doesn't mean he doesn't want to be with me or that he doesn't find me attractive.
Things in my house have gone back to the way we've spent so many years...tense and ignoring one another. Each of us doing things with the kids around the house, but not acknowledging one another. I can't go back to living like this, I just can't. He uses this time to pore himself into the kids and I usually just feel left out.
We haven't had much discussion about what I found. He could just tell instantly that something was wrong and I told him he forgot to erase his history and I asked him what was the matter with him? I have been cold to him ever since. That was New Year's eve.
We've been down this road before and he's basically told me before he's not going to stop because all guys do it and it's me that has the problem for being so obsessed with it.
With things getting so much better between us, I guess I knew in my heart that he was probably still doint SOMEthing, but that doesn't bother me really. The occassional porn viewing doesn't really bother me. But looking up specific women, trying to find pictures of them nude does bother me. I feel like I can't even watch a movie with an attractive woman in it without him making a mental note to 'look her up' later.
Since we've down this road other times before, I feel like it's just more of the same. And I also feel like it's difficult to hold him accountable when he's pretty much flat out told me that it's not something he intends to stop. My inability to draw a line in the sand has come back to haunt me. And I still don't know how to draw a line in the sand. Do I ruin our family over H looking for naked pictures of Christina Aguilera on the internet? I'm really upset to be back at this point...I truly thought my days of thinking about leaving were over. I thought we were beyond that point. I'm crushed.

[heatherg]

The first thing I wrestle with is....is this my problem or his? Obviously doing this stuff behind my back is not good for the M. But if I wasn't so offended by it, he probably wouldn't have to hide it.
I'm self confident enough, not really insecure. I'm attractive and get my fair share of double glances. I guess that's part of what bothers me. Why are guys never happy with what they have? My first thought is that I want to hurt him too. Maybe he doesn't get it that there is a laundry list of guys that I think are pretty freakin hot too. I've thought about leaving my list in his google drop down, lol.
I seriously think it would bother him if I was doing the same things he does. Thing is, it's not my style. It's not me. Like I said, it's creepy.

Can I be ok with it? I don't know. But the first step is to stop doing it behind my back. And the first step toward that is making him feel safe enough to tell me the full extent of what he does. When we had lots of problems, I installed spyware on his computer, so I pretty much know he doesn't do anything further than what I've relayed here, i.e. he's not doing webcams or talking to other live people. It's definitely not like that.

I pretty much told him I installed it, after I found out what I needed to know. He's now got a password on his computer and spyware detection software, etc. He changed the password on his email account because of course I had that too. So, he's taken measures to 'assure' that I can't spy on him. And I had zero desire to. I found what I needed to know...coming across his history was a complete mistake. On both of our parts because he is usually pretty careful to cover his tracks.

So, how do we communicate about this issue???

[runningoutoftime]

Is the 6-year-old daughter his child? If not I would be concerned about that...

One thing I remember hearing someone on a talk show recommend to one guy who was trying to overcome a porn addiction was to put family photos at places where he watched porn. For example, maybe put some photos next to the computer or around it. That way, instead of looking at the stuff he could remember how important his family is, how he didn't want to lose them and how disappointed they would be with him.

Honestly, I don't know if this would work. Especially if he doesn't believe this is a problem and doesn't want to change it.

I think if it were me, I would just ask him point blank questions. Let him know you know what he's doing. It's no secret (don't tell him how you know, just say you know). But ask why and what he "gets" from it. What are his feelings about it? I'd be trying to understand it. But then as far as "treating" it my guess is like any other addiction. I think what would help is if it's something he wants to change. For example, if someone wants to quit smoking they won't unless they truly want to do it and are willing to work at it.

You mentioned he drinks a bit too. Would you say he has other addictions besides porn?

[heatherg]

Yes, our six year old is his daughter, but I see where you are going with that. H is an absolutely fabulous father-they don't come any better quite simply. Now, when D is 16, 17 and brings friends home.....that is my concern. Not that he would ever act on it (like I said, he's a great father and his kids mean everything to him-he would never disappoint them like that), but that it would even interest him in private, in his thoughts....I'm concerned that it would.

I'm hesitant to conclude it's an addiction. I'm not sure what constitutes an addiction, but there are many men out there who say that it is absolutely 100% normal for a guy to view porn and that it could actually be slightly abnormal if he doesn't.

I'm trying hard to think of a way to make our next conversation about this not be 'more of the same'. He does know that I know...he actually makes sure he clears his history in such a way that there is nothing in the address bar for Internet Explorer or Google so that I can't see where he's been. He also routinely clears his temporary internet files. He's been 'caught' by all of that in the past so he's learned his lessons. On the surface, it signals that he knows he's doing something wrong. But he has indicated that he hides it because it's easier than dealing with the way I get about it. For instance, I've essentially been ignoring him since I found what I found.
You're right, there's no way to 'make him' stop. You can't make anybody do anything and whether I like it or not, porn is a part of his current life. I just want to be sure I understand why I feel the way I do and be able to at least calmy discuss and try to understand where he is coming from.
Alcohol used to be a huge part of H's life.....he used to drink quite a bit, only beer and only at home. He's cut down over the years and he drinks O'Douls often as well. It's not nearly the problem it used to be although he is still oddly ritualistic about it. H definitely has an addictive personality and I think he knows it, which is probably why he's never ventured into anything but beer. He steers entirely clear of liquor and drugs of any kind.

[runningoutoftime]

I'm relieved to hear she's his biological daughter and a wonderful father. Looking at porn wouldn't detract from that...

I was wondering about him having an addictive personality. Does he know this about himself? I wonder if the addiction could be transfered to something healthier. Like maybe spending more time with you? Or some type of hobby....

I think it's 100% normal for a guy to look at porn, but I think it would depend on how often and if he's using in place of realtiy. I know my husband doesn't look at porn regularly. I'm pretty sure the guys he knows will sometimes send some silly emails to each other once in a blue moon with some pornographic stuff or theme. But I've seen the history for what my husband looks at and it's not porn. I think he'd find it kind of boring on a regular basis. I don't know if that makes him abnormal. Perhaps some guys on this site can chime in about what's normal. I'm not saying my husband would never look at porn, it's just I think he's too busy doing other things like watching stocks, or sports, cleaning the pool, fixing things, etc... He's just really busy.

[saffie]

heatherg,

Have you wondered if making the viewing of the porn such a secret thing for your H just adds to it's attractiveness? It strikes me that knowing your dislike of it has driven it underground for your H and that just enhances it's allure.

I would have a conversation along the lines of you know he does it and that's ok and you are glad that he clears the history etc. so that your D doesn't come across it. If you can then stomach it you could ask him if he could show you what he gets out of it so you don't feel excluded.

I guess what I am saying is try and change both your and his view of it.....and thereby take away the mystery in it all. Maybe that way his attraction to it might fade.

[heatherg]

I was wondering about him having an addictive personality. Does he know this about himself?

Yes, I believe he knows.

I wonder if the addiction could be transfered to something healthier. Like maybe spending more time with you? Or some type of hobby....

Yes, but that would be up to him to decide.

I think it's 100% normal for a guy to look at porn,

This seems to be the way of thinking for the majority, but the feminist in me gets really irritated at this. Why do we excuse behavior in the name of being a 'man', kwim? On the other hand, if this really is some biological necessity, to fight it would be futile. But really, a biological necessity? I'm just not sure about that.

I don't know. I look at porn myself occasionally, it's not a huge deal. And I can certainly vouch for the fact that it doesn't make me love my H any less or mean that I don't find him attractive. But. If he said it hurt him that I did it, I wouldn't do it. Simply because it isn't that big of a deal. Ultimately, I think that's what bothers me about it. I've done a lot of thinking about this and I think that when he decided it was ok to look at porn outside of doing it with me....he failed to mention that to me. So here I was all this time, thinking it would hurt him deeply to even know I fantasized about anyone else. So I never did.
Now that I know it's apparently ok with him, as I explore what I like more, I'm threatened less by what he's doing. But he missed the opportunity to develop that bond with me, to explore it together. And he told me that he was not going to stop looking at pictures of naked women, that it was not what I was making it out to be. And that he was prepared to accept the consequences. Ok.....doesn't that go beyond the realm of something that isn't a big deal? To theoretically be willing to give up your marriage and your family....I mean, ultimately if I couldn't deal with it, that would be the price, the "consequences" wouldn't it? So, he's prepared for that? WTH??
I may be able to get perfectly comfortable with the idea of him looking at pictures of naked women. But you know, I don't think I'll ever be able to be comfortable with him telling me he's willing to give me up over it.

[heatherg]

Have you wondered if making the viewing of the porn such a secret thing for your H just adds to it's attractiveness?

I've thought about this too. Gosh, why do they have to act like 18 year olds?? I could pretend it doesn't bother me and that I don't care, but then again I really can't. I've tried.

[runningoutoftime]

Keep in mind, I said looking at porn is normal, but the amount might not be. From what you describe it does sound like addiction. Unfortunately I don't know a lot about porn addiction. My husband doesn't look at porn regularly. He's probably on the very low end of this. I would say he might look once every 5 years... If a naked woman was standing there he'd definitely look, but he doesn't go out of his way to look for it.

>>I may be able to get perfectly comfortable with the idea of him looking at pictures of naked women. But you know, I don't think I'll ever be able to be comfortable with him telling me he's willing to give me up over it.<<

I completely agree with you.