Hi everyone, it is hard to believe I have been lurking here for over 6 months. I've read quite a few of the sitch's on here and am just totally amazed at the similarities for so many of us. Especially how close in age the majority seem to be!
By way of background, I am 38 and my husband is 40 and we have been separated since May. He moved out after we had a pretty heated argument regarding money. After the argument, it came out that he was not happy, didn't feel the same, etc. etc. For about two months, we lived as a separated couple, then after that, we started doing the odd thing here and there as a family (us and our son) such as dinner out, some day trips, etc. Come end of July, after several weeks of "hanging out" and me thinking we were on our way to piecing, I got hit with the bomb that he'd had an emotional affair. He said nothing happened physically and nothing would ever happen between them (reasons for this were vague). I had suspected nothing and it came out of left field. Besides the obvious devastation I felt, I was left feeling very confused because a few weeks earlier he had decided he wanted us to start doing things together as a family (so of course I figured that meant he wanted to work on things), yet after just a few weeks, he tells me he doesn't feel "that way" with me and tells me he had feelings for someone else, although he wouldn't tell me the timeframe of the affair.
I've tried a few db'ing principles (before I read this site, just because it seemed to make sense to me) and also made a few of the typical mistakes. All in all, considering my personality which can be pretty clingy and insecure, I think I did a pretty good job of detaching and giving him his space.
So fast forward a few months, here we are, still hanging out as a family most weekends and some weekdays also, and him still claiming he doesn't know what he wants, although he says he still loves me. Just not sure it is the right way.
This is quite a learning experience and here are a few things I think I have learned so far (no particular order):
1. If after 8 months (given others' situations, I realize 8 months is not that long, but I think it is an adequate amount of time for more relationships) he still doesn't know if he wants to be with me, then clearly he doesn't want me. At least not the way a husband is supposed to want his wife.
2. By the time a WAS actually walks away, the marriage has been dead from their point of view for a long long time, and will be very difficult to piece back together.
3. If separated for any period of time (anything over a couple months), it is very difficult to piece things back together simply because the separation itself works to distance the husband and wife even further. This is one of the areas where I've failed in the db'ing principles because several times I've told my H that I think the separation was putting even more of a wedge between us and I've asked (okay begged a little) him to come home simply so we could try to work on our problems while in a closer proximity to eachother. He's refused.
4. I've observed on here and this is definitely the case with my H and I, is that, while living as separated people, while the WAS MAY be working (very SLOWLY) towards coming home, over a period of time, the LBS, in not getting their needs met, is (very SLOWLY) detaching and drifting apart from the WAS. Certainly in my situation, my husband's rejection for sex and affection with me (seems he just wants to be friends), while maintaining friendships/relationships with other women (some secretly) is slowly but surely destroying my feelings for him. I mean seriously, how long can the LBS go on getting nothing from the WAS (except lies and deceit), and the relationship remain intact?
5. Often, the WAS has as much of a difficult time letting go of the LBS as the LBS has in letting go of the WAS and will, upon occasion, cling to the LBS or flounder in their decision. When this happens, when some crumb of affection gets tossed our way, we the LBS's will get our hopes up that the WAS is "coming round." I've gotten my hopes up sooooo many times with this, and learned, what I've had to do is to look at the whole picture and see that the odd moment of tenderness here and there is the minority, and the majority of the time, he's friendly, but cold and distant with me. You really need to look at how they behave the majority of the time.
6. Once the WAS has left the marital home, he or she pretty much feels they are free to do what they want and will justify any and all of their actions that involve members of the opposite sex. "We're separated, you can't tell me what to do, etc. etc." Very rarely does the LBS agree with this, as we are trying to save our marriage, and in fact, still feel we are in a marriage.
7. In almost all cases, when a couple splits up, there's another person involved. It is simply human nature to do this. This does not include cases of abuse, whether physical or emotional.
8. It is beyond devastating to find out that your spouse has had a relationship with another person. Ranks right up there with death.
Not sure where I had intended to go with this post. I guess I just wanted to introduce myself and chat with others going through the same thing. Would love to hear from those who are where I am at in their situations. While I want to save my marriage, I really am starting to think it is not going to happen. Hugs to you all.
>> By the time a WAS actually walks away, the marriage has been dead from their point of view for a long long time, and will be very difficult to piece back together. <<
>>If separated for any period of time (anything over a couple months), it is very difficult to piece things back together simply because the separation itself works to distance the husband and wife even further. <<
Not necessarily true. I know of people who get divorced and years later remarry or "piece" a relationship back together.
Sometimes you have to lose something to realize how valuable it is.
Having a history and child together is much more valuable then many people realize. But you can't tell your H this or try to convince him of it. He'll have to figure it out himself.
The chances that any OP can have more value then that are very slim. Once the newness and novelty of the situation wears off, chances are he'll realize this. In the meantime you need to create a great life for yourself... with or without him.
In other words, leave the door open a crack, but don't stand there trying to convince him to step inside. Just make it such a wonderful place that if he happens to peek in he'll be intrigued, realize it looks pretty good and he'll want to step in and stay. And if he doesn't you will have a great life anyway, few (or no!) regrets, and he will definitely lose something very valuable.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Runningoutoftime - I agree that having a child is something that will bind us together forever. However when a person hasn't loved another person in the right way for a very long time, how do those feelings come back? In my case, while we'd had a tumultous relationship these past few years due to outiside circumstances that neither of us could control, overall my husband and I had one of the best relationships I have ever known. We complemented eachother pretty darn good. Got along well, didn't argue much, for the most part were happy together, etc. But we did drift apart and did not keep the flame alive. I know we have to start doing things as husband/wife together again, but so much time has passed and it feels so awkward now for both of us. We have slept in the same bed a few times now, and it is stiff/awkward. He does not really want to cuddle (something we always did before). To me, while we are "working on things," every day that goes by drives us a little farther apart.
And while having a child together is a very strong reason to reconcile, neither of us will allow that to be the only reason. I would rather be divorced than be together simply for my son's sake. I am getting close to being at the point where I would rather be divorced than married to a guy who wants me but wants to be single too. I've found that being with him is emotionally draining because there is almost no husband/wife contact interaction and it hurts me so much. Sure, we're great friends, but we always were. We did become emotionally distant due to the problems at hand, but for the most part, we always got along. So there's really no need to spend time together to become friends again in my opinion. We're already there.
So, if the feelings have been gone a long time, how often do they come back? And how often do they come back before the LBS has moved on? And how the F do you get them back? Million dollar question.
Your million dollar question answer is, as long as he's emotionally attached to another woman, those feelings won't come back. And until he's ready to completely end it with OW, your marriage doesn't have a chance.
And your question about how long can a LBS last before they've had enough? Depends on the person (I've been at this going on two years since I first got suspicious and for about 16 months since I've had confirmation of my W's PA), but it's not for the faint of heart. There are many days when I'm ready to throw in the towel and get on with my life (like yesterday/today), but everytime I look at my kids I get the energy to continue.
This OW your H is involved with. Do you know anything about her? Is she married?
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
Your post really jumped out at me because of how closely it described where I'm at. I could have written this almost word for word.
((((In my case, while we'd had a tumultous relationship these past few years due to outiside circumstances that neither of us could control, overall my husband and I had one of the best relationships I have ever known. We complemented eachother pretty darn good. Got along well, didn't argue much, for the most part were happy together, etc. But we did drift apart and did not keep the flame alive. I know we have to start doing things as husband/wife together again, but so much time has passed and it feels so awkward now for both of us. We have slept in the same bed a few times now, and it is stiff/awkward. He does not really want to cuddle (something we always did before). To me, while we are "working on things," every day that goes by drives us a little farther apart.
And while having a child together is a very strong reason to reconcile, neither of us will allow that to be the only reason. I would rather be divorced than be together simply for my son's sake. I am getting close to being at the point where I would rather be divorced than married to a guy who wants me but wants to be single too. I've found that being with him is emotionally draining because there is almost no husband/wife contact interaction and it hurts me so much. Sure, we're great friends, but we always were. We did become emotionally distant due to the problems at hand, but for the most part, we always got along. So there's really no need to spend time together to become friends again in my opinion. We're already there.))))
I've reached the point where I'm not really sure I want to stay married to her anymore. I know my wife is still in contact with the OM, and I ask myself every day, why do I put up w/ this crap and how many more times can I listen to her say she needs to feel passionately in love every minute of every day and that we just don't click like that? How much longer can I be the only one trying to make our marriage better and happier? How do I rekindle the flame? The million dollar question indeed!
Like you said, I feel like we drift apart a bit more each day, and if in the last nine months she hasn't figured out what she want's, she obviously doesn't want me. Each of us needs to make our own decisions, but for me it's time to move forward one way or the other. I still love my wife, but the only thing left for me to do is to let her go. I hope (I think!) that after she leaves, she'll realize that the grass isn't greener, that single life w/ two young children is no picnic, and that feelings of passionate love every moment just isn't realistic.
That being said, I view it as moving forward, not moving on. I'm starting to plan my life on my own for the new year, but not closing the door on her. I really don't know how to begin to rekindle the flame, but I've realized I can't do it alone and I can't do it w/ the OM in the picture. So for now, all I can do is wait and see what she chooses.
Sorry you're in this crummy situation and that I couldn't answer the million dollar question! I'm way too new around here to have that kind of knowledge. I just have the feeling that all of our marriages and families are not disposable and that they are worth fighting for.
Thanks guys, I realized I posted twice accidentally, so I have two threads going on.
Johnny, I glanced at your thread. You say your W is still floundering on what she wants. My H is the same. I think he WANTS to want me, but doesn't. I am strongly considering telling him it is time to formally separate and live our lives as separate people. I tried it once and all he had to do was say a couple things and I was right back to "let's try to work on us then....." A good db'her, I'm not.
Have you updated your thread lately?
Hope4us - I don't know anything about OW. He claims nothing happened and nothing ever would. Just that the fact that he could have feelings for another woman meant there was something very wrong with us. I am undecided in whether I believe anything happened between them. I don't think he would ever admit it.
Hope4us - I don't know anything about OW. He claims nothing happened and nothing ever would. Just that the fact that he could have feelings for another woman meant there was something very wrong with us. I am undecided in whether I believe anything happened between them. I don't think he would ever admit it.
JMHO but "know thine enemy". Find out what you can or can handle. Sometimes knowing something about the OP gives you a clue as to what is missing in your R. Like H4U says though, this is not for the faint of heart...it hurts like hell but for me its worth it.
If it is truly and EA only, you might want to read the book "Not Just Friends" it has a wealth of information and can give you insights and questions that you may not have thought of before.
M:39 H:39 K:S14;D8 T:22yr M:15yrs S:12/28/07 EA/PA 3/14/08 OW preg 11/17/08 born 12/12/08 his ~~~~~~~ Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option
Hi, I haven't been able to find out anything about OW at all and he's not sharing. So for me, that is a dead end unfortunately.
For those who are in my situation or who have been in my situation: Not officially piecing, but trying to figure out if we can piece or not (serious baby steps here I know), how do you get over the awkwardness of the situation? Do you just fake it until it becomes natural again? Or is it always awkward? We're both avoiding R talks right now, letting things lie, but the pink elephant is always around and the odd moment of tenderness/closeness that we share is not enough to sustain this relationship.
Thanks to all who have responded to my posts. I am grateful for the support here, especially knowing that some are in much more complicated/difficult situations than I am.
Just that the fact that he could have feelings for another woman meant there was something very wrong with us.
You've never looked at a guy during your whole entire marriage and thought, wow he's attractive, he's got a great personality, etc...??? EVERYONE always notices OP and may even have feelings about them. That's normal! It's what you do with the feelings, and where you set the boundries that makes the difference.
For example, I've worked with guys I thought were attractive, and one who even flirted with me. But knowing I was married I would NEVER act upon it even though it was very tempting. Certainly it would have been easy to say to myself, my marriage sucks and gosh, a couple of us co-workers are just going out for drinks after work. But since I knew there was chemistry I completely avoided situations where anything could start up. Also, just because I had feelings toward someone doesn't mean my marriage, or my husband, mean any less. (Although during that time I will say I wasn't too thrilled about my marriage).
Affairs are not a matter of feelings for other people. We all have the ability to have feelings and chemistry with other people. Affairs don't occur because of that, they occur because a lack of boundries.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
So, if the feelings have been gone a long time, how often do they come back? And how often do they come back before the LBS has moved on? And how the F do you get them back? Million dollar question.
Yes, feelings are a funny thing and they can and do change. Most people just don't think they have control over them, and that feelings have control over them. And of course, "feelings" can lead us in illogical directions where we later think... how stupid was I???
Sometimes when someone feels depressed they will dwell in it, and just stay there, and sometimes they want to be there. Of course, hormones play a part in it as well, but there's also research showing that people can choose these feelings. That they can consciously change the way they see things. Sometimes it's a matter of action. If you act happy you'll feel more happy.
With long term love I think it's the same. All relationships go through good times, bad times, stale times... You can choose to see things more negative, or you can choose to see things positive. This is not something that happens quickly or overnight (and I get the feeling you would like a quick fix...).
So to live more positively one would act it. Reaserch shows that when people act happier they usually feel happier. So, if that's so the case, if you "act" loving and react in loving ways, feelings follow.
But I'm not sure you really want that. I think you've already decided to leave.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
