Sorry you are going through this but glad you are here as this is the best place for you during your ordeal.
The "2x4" is a metaphor used by divorce busters to refer to the correction we expect or recieve when we do something we shouldn't and need or expect correction from fellow divorcebusters.
In reality a "2x4" is a piece of timber used in construction to build frames for structures which is approximately 3cm x 6cm in diameter and varies in length.
"2x4" is an ideomatic phrase which may be compared to the "baton" used in "Punch and Judy."
I hope this helps.
"Fear is the mind-killer" Muad'Dib Me 53, XW 44, DD 14, DS 12 Bomb and OM 12/15/06 Separated 01/02/07 Divorced 05/13/08 X married OM(OMH) 08/2009 Married 06/09/13
Jean-Paul, I don't mean to sound negative, but its been my experience that many of these people do not snap out of it. I know that some do, but I believe that many more do not. Problem with this MLC and all of the B.S. that goes along with it is this. People will not admit they have done wtong, so even if in thier mind they know that they messed up, they will have to backtrack on all of the mean and nasty stuff they said about the LBS to get back with them. There just isn;t too many people who are going to do that. Also, as pointed out, often times this stuff runs 4,5 or more years and once they have "woke up" its too late. Its hard to get past all the mean stuff that they do to you, many cannot. If you wish to reunite, if that is an option, I wish you well.
No braveheart, you don’t sound negative, but realistic. Yeah, sometime I wish to reunite, but it takes two people to commit to this. Yes, some do snap out of the MLC, I spoke with some of them. And for the admission of what they did, a sincere apology , work in trying to regain the lost trust, breaking-up with the OM and bad influences would be sufficient in my opinion to start with, there is no need for sordid details. Just venting on this, we are not near that stage.
I try to act happy when around my W, I do more things for myself, I don’t pressure her or bring-up anything about R/M/D. I leave earlier, I am not questioning her about her whereabouts and even she admitted this. I am not criticizing her friends. Reflective listening works wonders and I listen when she talks. Of course, it is all about her. I’ll just sit and listen with direct eye contact and I am genuinely interested in what she is saying. Ocasionally we joke and occasional laughs are relieving the tension that was present in the air.
I'm not getting my hopes up, but I must admit, it is much easier to deal with her when she is nice. She is getting better with spending more time with our son as well. And occasionally she is curious about my whereabouts. I am not letting her know all the details, keep a little bit of mystery. Few months back she could not stand my presence, for Christmas we played monopoly with our son for hours. Few months back she was so inconsiderate she was txt-ing in my presence, now the cell phone is not hidden and when it rings often times she tells me who called.
I know, the roller-coaster… Today could be nice, tomorrow could be spiteful. I reached the saturation point and I guess I am ambivalent but, as one of the DB counselors told me, if one wants to reconcile, they need to be seen from a positive perspective. I know snapping out of the MLC does not necessarily mean wanting to get back together. Surprisingly, she considered this a while ago, but this was obliterated for some reason, following a therapy session.
She is still hanging around with the divorced crowd, though and, as the MLC’ers I spoke with told me , breaking-up from this circle is quite difficult; it will make her look weak. Same about the OM, as Sandie wrote here too. Same about her family. Other signs of MLC are still present. Another bad thing is that in her life she never witnessed a R being restored, only divorces, including a nasty one of her parents. She was so upset last week when she visited some common friends and nobody wanted to talk to her, they simply ignored her completeley.
Keep in mind that (except this forum and my DB councellor), I did not broadcasted to the world her affairs and when I mentioned to her this she was speechless. Anyways, it was not difficult for common friends to figure out I guess.
Would a woke-up MLC just came forward to say what she wants, or she would be testing the waters first? With such a roller-coaster it is difficult to figure out what exactly is in her mind. I try not to do mind reading or making scenarios, that’s why I posted here, hoping to get some good information.
Comment ca va? (Sorry, my computer cannot make the accents). I do not have much time right now but wanted to let you know I am dealing with a husband in MLC. I have some thoughts to share with you and will write more later, when I have a bit more time.
I hope you will have a peacefull and full of joy 2009! Please share with me your thoughts, I am trying to navigate through this ordeal and your comments are welcome. Even women go through MLC differently than men, some things are common. I have been separated from my W for 15 months now and the tension between us dissappeared. I decided not to be accusative and I let her deal with her own issues. However, my W never witnessed any R being restored, only separations and divorces. As I said, sometime she is nice, sometime cold. But she continues to be selfish. I also notice she is forgetful, but sometime she remind few things that we did together in the past. Of course, I did some changes in myself and I guess she noticed them. However, she is most likely so far of even thinking about a reconciliation. She had some thoughts last year, as I found out, but the OM reappeared for a while and her divorced "friends" are still in the picture. I guess I reached the acceptance phase, but not detachment. I still do hope she will come to senses, the love she is so looking for is closer than she thinks.
Hi there. I have not made it back as quickly as I meant to, but I tend to get side tracked. My heart goes out to you b/c I know you must be in so much pain to see the one you love conduct her life the way your W is doing. The main thing that concerns me is that she is in and out of several affairs. Now, I was set straight be a woman from another culture that those things are more acceptable where she was raised than where I lived, so perhaps that is the case with you.....but regardless, I would think that it still would be very painful for you.
I realize not everyone thinks the same way. Even people of the same culture or family does not think the same. So, I will just tell you how I see it from my point of view. I believe that sex for women and sex for men are different regardless of how the movies want to protray the concept. The two genders are so different in the way they are made. I am not good at trying to explain this, but I think that when a woman gives herself sexually to a man, that in someway it involves so much of who she is that it is like it touches her soul. Excuse me if that does not make much sense. As I said, I am not good at trying to explain what I believe in my heart. Anyway, I feel that the more men a woman has sex with.....the more damage she does to herself (in a soulish or spiritual way). Now, I am not saying that I think this will send her to hell or anything like that! I am talking about her "make-up" as a complex female. Whereas a man may be able to go from one woman to the next and have sex and just enjoy the physical part of it and it might never touch his heart or soul or emotions (whatever you want to call it). So in time, if a woman has had several affairs, then it will take a toll on her emotionally. In fact, it was a book that I got on line that I read that explained how a woman would start on a downward spiral until she hit rock bottom. It explain how it would effect her until she could never have the "feeling" that she once enjoyed with a man. In other words, every time she had an affair, it took something away from her. If she went from one man to the next, she finally could not receive those in love feelings that she despartely wants to have. Again, I am not explaining this very well and probably should not have started it. But, that was something that scared me when I read it and it helped me to want to protect myself from anything like that happening.
So, I am concerned that she has had more than one affair and what it is doing to her that she is ignoring. I am sure that she would argue the point I have tried to make, but I believe it does effect a female's feelings. After a time of this continued behavior pattern, she becomes numb and is not able to have true feelings for any man.
I wished for your sake that you could detach emotionally. But, you have to do what works for you. I hope that you will continue to have a life for yourself and enjoy your child.
Quote:
Would a woke-up MLC just came forward to say what she wants, or she would be testing the waters first?
I was going to respond to this question before I closed. It is not that easy since it would largely depend on the individual personality. My first thought would be that under the circumstances, she would test the waters to see if you would consider taking her back as your wife. But, if you feel that she does that, just be careful and not go overboard b/c it is just a test. She is not making anything final. She may not know for sure what she wants, at that point, she is just sticking her toes in the water to see what the temp is. If she is more of the type to "lay all her cards on the table" (as they say) and be upfront about everything, then she may possibly tell you that she was wrong and what she wishes for the future, but as a whole, it is my personal belief that most would "test the waters" before talking plain about their intentions or desires.
I hope this will be a good year for you.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for your comments! I don’t know of any culture where adultery is accepted...
Factors that caused my W to stray are numerous and, without knowing it, I only fueled the drama. She confessed to me before we separated she is afraid of menopause, worried about her irregular periods, worried about some allergy she developed after giving birth, she does not want to end-up being overcontrolling and alone like her mother, aging, looks, she was irritated with both me and our son (she punished him for so minor “infractions”…) and asked me to draw her attention when this happens. She also complained the lack of real friends, to go shopping with, etc. My W’s father was an alcoholic and womanizer, total absent from her life (now they are best friends) and she witnessed terrible things as a child. Her life was full of couples who separated and divorced and nowadays this is the environment she is in.
The 1st 3rd person that entered our M was a “friend” who went through a rough marriage and ended-up divorced and with several failed relationships afterwards. No children, just lived the life to the “fullest”. Surprisingly, my W told me about this woman and criticized her for her behavior and now is her confident! When my W asked her what to do, stay with me, because I am loving, caring, not going in bars or chasing women, and good, or to look for excitement you can guess what the answer was. It looks like my W is under the spell of this woman.
You scare me with your comments about jumping from OM to OM but I guess you are right, the more men, the less self-esteem, numbness towards feelings, and more need for sex as a “need”. She may have feel guilty when she cheated 1st time, but I guess after 2nd time it was easier and fulfilling her “needs” makes her think nothing is wrong with having more sex. Her “friend” changed partners like socks and even went through numerous one night stands. I know my W realized she was used, she’s no fool. She jumped from OM #1 to OM #2 in a very short period of time. These “rescuers” left some damage behind… I know my W is doing some soul searching, but in which direction only she knows.
I am amazed about the excessive selfishness exhibited lately. Always speaks about herself and even when she planned and went with our son on vacation she said “I go”, “I want to see that”, like he was not joining her. She went through a period of total darkness following the separation, then we had a huge fight about her affairs (“with OM 1 it happened once and with OM 2 it was only a flirt”), shortly after she opened a little, then she went through a period when she was spiteful, then she opened again a little, then she went through a severe depression, then she opened a little again and now is selfish. I discovered by accident the ups and downs were created by the on and off presence of OM #2. Currently she is oscillating between being nice (sometime curious) and being cold. Another thing that worries me is she started drinking. She enjoyed a drink or two in the past but overall she was an anti-alcohol person. Her hobby of tarot cards reading turned into obsession and she is surrounded by books on astrology, numerology, and horoscopes.
Last year she tested the waters on division of assets issue. I made my point clear, she tried again later and 2 months ago she told me she does not want a D because she does not want to marry again. We all know the economic crisis the world is going through… $ are a big issue for her. Not that is anything wrong with having a financial security, but to certain limits. She makes more than I make and so far she sustained herself and afforded lavish spendings, including trips and… laser hair removal treatments.
I don’t want to do mind reading or create scenarios, this would be countereffective to the detachment I am so hungry for. Well, I passed the terrible stage of sordid details and accusing. Moreover, I forgave her in my mind and heart, and this gave me an immense inner peace. With the help of women like you and literature on MLC I understand what she is going through. Few months ago, when she was severely depressed, I told her I understand what she is going through. She jumped at me like a lioness and I repaired the mistake by simply telling her “you did not asked for this to happen”. She was speechless, but recovered quick and told me I am obsessed about the OM. My answer: No, but I was hurt as a man, husband, lover and partner”.
I am not trying to fix her, I simply let her see me in a positive perspective and let her navigate through this time. She knows I am there when she needs me and she knows I respect her privacy and she even acknowledged that. Is this approach right or wrong, I don’t know. But this is how I feel I should behave. A DB counselor told me my W’s crisis seems like being far from over but based on our circumstances if I want our R restored I would have to make her feel secure with me. My W probably does not know I would not throwing the affairs in her face. As you said, she was emotionally attached to both OM and saw them as the rescuers.
Regarding the waters testing question, thanks for answering, even we did not reach that stage. It looked to me few times she was testing, but I guess I was wrong. My W is a very proud, determined and ambitious woman and cares about what others are saying and please keep in mind she broadcasted our separation to the world. An ex-MLC told me breaking from this circle of “friends” was difficult and she was so scared she will look like a fool, but she made the mental decision this is not the life she wanted and 1 ˝ years after the separation she was back with her H. Another friend of mine went through something similar and when she wanted to reconcile it was a little too late. Now she is depressed big time and scared of men. It seems they wake-up only when we find somebody. I am not saying our situation fits in those examples and others, but it looks like the general rules about women MLC apply.
The overall picture of our R does not look good at this point. I wish I could be more optimistic, but the reality kicks in. Few months ago she complained about being single, now she seems so well being alone. I’ ve heard numerous times a wake-up call is when they hit rock bottom. I really don’t know in our situation what this could mean and/or be.
It has been a while since I last posted here, so I want to bring-up some developments.
Recently, my W acknowledged “both out fault” in the M, however there was no word about the OM’s.Regrets for a failed M? Yes. Details about her own share? No. Just an acknowledgment and sorrow. Previous time when she was thinking of getting back together she was really depressed. Same thing now. Nevertheless, the communication was better then and it is better now. I don’t want to make assumptions, but I guess she does not know for sure which way to go on. Long gone are the party times; she is more down to earth.
I don’t bring her guilt up (I did it twice in the past and the results were negative), this is her problem she needs to deal with; it is her struggle. She knows that I know about the OM’s (with #2 it was “only a flirt”) and sooner or later this would need to be addressed if she is willing to rebuild the trust and all the other ingredients for a M.
We’ve both been through therapy following the separation and recently my W said “it looks like your therapist was better”.
One thing that hit her hard recently was the fact our S said he prefers to spend time with me. Another thing that hit her hard is the recession, uncertainty about her job prospects and fear of loosing the home. Those are things she said, nothing else. She is extremely materialistic and a very proud person. I don’t know about the OM’s. She was trying to reconnect with #1, then again with #2.
On a different note, she expressed the desire of spending some extra activities involving our son, together. She is still using “I”, but frequently I hear “we” and about things we did or we did not in the past.
Well, I have been through one opening before, but the OM #1 + toxic influences obliterated the get back together possibility then, so I take with a bit of salt what is currently going on. She can go from an extreme (being cold, upset and spiteful) to another (what a great job you did, what a good idea this was) in a short time.
What I am doing with the info that makes a difference? I only see a change in her however, only fear of being alone, fear of future, frustration for our S’s comments, $, and the occasional “we”. I see she screwed up, she is badly screwed up, and the reality kicks in.
