Initially I posted in the newbie’s forum, but I thought to start a new thread here, hoping I will get more insight, especially from women who went through MLC and restored their marriages. I don’t want to vent, I simply want some information. I understand that a potential wake-up does not necessarily mean marriage restoration.
We all know there are triggers that start the MLC behavior, my first question is; are there any triggers that stop it? Not me fixing her, this is out of the question.
My W is so selfish and self centered right now and the sad thing is she doesn’t even realize it. It is only about her, about her problems. In the past she opened a little and this gave me false hopes for a potential reconciliation. She is 41 and the first signs of MLC (fear of menopause, fear of aging, etc.) started in 2005. 2 A’s since 2006… It seems to me my W is in very severe MLC and things go downhill day by day. It is so pathetic to see how hard she is trying to look younger (dressed like a teenager, heavy make-up, etc.). The more she tries, the older she looks.
My second question is what can trigger the new circle of “friends” (ALL divorced or in MLC) to be broken? Except for one, neither of her “friends” knows me directly. The only one who knows me went through numerous A’s, but portraits herself as happy, and this is my W’s model (independent, no children, free to party, to globetrotting,…) She encouraged my W behind my back and the paper cannot stand the words she used. Before my W’s MLC she shared with me the lousy life her “friend” was running and now it is her model! My W is very proud, stubborn, determined, manipulative and pays attention to what other people are saying. She broadcasted to the world our separation and everywhere blamed me for our M failure. She went to therapy “to be helped and not criticized” and she is milking sympathy everywhere. She changed completely and she runs parallel lives, depending on the entourage. Drinking and partying are the norm. Same is the obsession about her looks and $. The literature she is reading is “Why Men Loves Bitches”, “How To Live With or Without a Man” and similar stuff + articles on male sexuality.
When we meet, she either acts cold and distant, or depressed. However, in the pictures she showed me from various events she attended she is all smiling and always with a drink in her hand. From me she has all the famous and infamous space such women are asking for, no pressure, no M/R/D talks. Definitely I don’t want this version of my W and I perfectly understand she will never be what she was, but neither she will be what she is now.
Third question is what actually make the MLC’rs wake-up? I know each situation is different, there is no silver bullet, however I would welcome some examples from people who went through this.
For my wife, it was "hitting bottom" that means that pretty much everything she wanted or thought she wanted fell apart, that nothing could fill the hole inside her. When she realized that she had lost was more vaulable then the shiny pretty thing she had replaced them with.
AND there is nothing you can do to speed it up...there are MANY things you can do to slow it down however, choose wisely.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I am not sure there is anything. The MLCer has to see that everything they thought their new life was going to bring doesn't. I don't know about the women's perspective, but I know my H is still unhappy, and this MLC has affected everything in his life. I don't know that there is a clap of thunder and the person comes out of it, I think the decline is slow, and painful for us to watch. But they do have to have a realization, and the only person who can have the realization is the person in MLC.
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
I will be officially divorced this Monday 12/29. It has been a 4 year ordeal for me. Just two months ago, my ex finally admitted to me she knew she had problems with the ideal of aging. I can understand this to a degree because she was a very attractive Woman and I've known her since she was 16. This is not a bias opinion on my part. I've had male friends tell me my W was hot. Of course, the partying and high anxiety and stress have taken their toll on her over the past few years. She looks noticeably older and she cried to me recently that her Father told her she was showing signs of age. She was devastated at her own Father telling her that. For the first time in her life, the things that came easy to her because of her looks, no longer apply. She has to look deeper inside herself for the first time to define herself. I've always known she had inner substance, but she didn't.
Reconciliation came to late for us. By the time she "snapped" out of it, I was no longer interested. This is going to be a bigger test for you than it is her. You may not want her back even if she does snap out of it. I know you can't conceive of that now, but trust me, that possibility exist the longer she stays in this behavior pattern. It's going to test your patience, perseverance, and sanity.
You shouldn't be asking how long it's going to take her to snap out of it, that comes in varying degrees depending on the person. What you need to concentrate on is how long your willing to wait to have her back and what you plan to do for yourself in the interim. Think of it as a long prison term. It's going to kill you to sit there in your cell counting the days until you get out. Make the best of this time for yourself now. Keep occupied and the time it takes won't be an issue for you.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Reconciliation came to late for us. By the time she "snapped" out of it, I was no longer interested. This is going to be a bigger test for you than it is her. You may not want her back even if she does snap out of it. I know you can't conceive of that now, but trust me, that possibility exist the longer she stays in this behavior pattern. It's going to test your patience, perseverance, and sanity.
Ast, man I AM sorry.
That was the hardest choice I EVER made in my life. The one to take her back.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Thanks Jack. I'm OK with it and my S8 has adjusted incredibly well to the new arrangement. We've both taken special care in guiding him through this transition. I don't feel it's an end as much as a new beginning.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Yes, makes sense, I understand. It was very hard for me. I felt guilty for my decision initially, but now I know now it was the correct decision. I admire and respect the couples who do work on the reconciliation. I know it's probably the most difficult stage of this process.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Hi, I'm Sandi and I was an almost WAW who had an EA over the Internet. Never met him in real life but came close before I finally got my eyes open. Now, my story is exceptional, I suppose, b/c most people say that I was not in a MLC b/c I had passed the age that most people consider midlife. The guide I was going by was the fact that I had all the symptoms of MLC. I hope that I will not sound vain when I say this, but when I was young I was considered to be quite attractive. I never felt conceited about it b/c frankly, I didn't see myself as being all that pretty. But anyway, most everyone thought I was younger than my real age and therefore my "age" did not bother me. Until about the time I had this MLC or whatever it was to hit me. Then suddenly, my age, the fact I was losing my looks...everything bothered me. My H would compliment me when I dressed for work, etc., but it wasn't like hearing it from another man.
Even though I was not happy in my M, I never thought about looking at any other man. Well, I reached a point that I was so bored with our life until I wanted to cry. We never went anywhere or did anything. All my H wanted to do was watch TV until he fell asleep on the couch every night. We no longer visited with friends nor did we have hobbies, sports....nothing.
Our sex life was gone b/c at that time he had not touched me in 11 years and had not slept in the bed with me in 20 years. Whenever I had ever tried to talk to him about our R, he would just stare at the TV and act as though he did not hear me. If I turned the TV off and I got dramatic engough, he would look at me, but he was not a talker, so he wouldn't say anything. He might try to do better for 2 or 3 days and then it was right back like it always had been. So, I was completely burned out on TV and I begin playing games over the Internet and that led to other things and that led to an EA with OM. I was so stupid that I did not think my H knew enough about computers to discover the fact I was talking to OM. When I first started playing games and guys would try to flirt.....I would instantly get out of the game b/c I just did not do that. I mean, I was this proper "Christian" wife! But, as time went by, I found a man that was just fun to play with and he was not preverted like a lot of them are. So, I kind of gradually got into that trap of flirting with others. Then it became an addiction. I needed to be told that I was still attractive and looked younger than my age and was sexy, etc., etc. Of course they would tell you anything to keep you on the cam or to get you to continue the conversation. But it fed my starved ego. I had met the OM, but it had not turned into an EA until my H confronted me about what he had discovered on the computer. Then, it immediately went into a full blown EA. The more my H threaten to throw out the computer.....and he did throw out the web cam......the more I resented him. I almost left. If I had had the finances to support myself, I would have. I knew he would not help me, so I was stuck. In one way, that was good, but in another way, it meant that it was going to take me a very long time to get over what was wrong with me. Although, I realize now that if I had left him, I don't know if I would have come back.....that is a long story.
Even though I was past mid-life, I started fixing up a lot better. Everyone noticed. One day, even my Pastor said that he did not know what had gotten into me that I was looking so "young" and if he didn't know better, he would think I was in MLC! I almost fainted! I wasn't dressing what you would call "sexy" but I was dressing a lot better. I was picking out clothes that I planned to wear when I met the OM in real life. BTW, we never did, thank goodness. But, I was exercising and using all these lotions and potions that promised younger looking skin. I fell for everything on the market!
I don't know that anything specific triggered me to begin my way out of the "fog" of MLC (or whatever it was) and it wasn't instantly. I have only read of one story that sounded like it happened instantly. But, I did know right from wrong and I had always been a Christian, so to say this was eating me up, is putting it lightly. I could not go to Church and could not pray or any of that while I was having an EA with OM. Church had been my entire life! So, I was so torn between what to do. My feelings for my H was anything but good. I could not stand to be under the same roof with him. I told him that he either had to give me a lot of space or I was out of here. And he did. He stopped standing behind me watching the computer and things like that.
I found the DB board kind of by accident, really. So, when I finally got the nerve to post.....boy did I get hit hard. Here I was a WW talking to mostly people who were LBS and I was the last person they wanted to talk to. However, I was blessed that the right ones came to talk to me. They really had been through the wringer with their S's in MLC. I have to give them credit for hitting me softy (and sometimes not so softly)with 2x4's until I started to "get it". But, getting it and "doing it" was two different things.
The other thing I had working on me was my 'spirital' life which had gone completely downhill and I knew I could not live that way for the rest of my life and I knew enough to know that God would not bless me for doing what I was planning to do or to keep doing what I had been doing where OM was concerned. So, I would just pray and ask for God's help.....even though my "flesh" wasn't wanting to change.
Then there was my family. I has strong suspicions that one or more had found out. That made me sicker than you could imagine. You see, my children are grown and I have grandchildren, so it was pretty embarrassing to know what they would think of me if that information got out to them. I had always been a "role model"....if you can believe that! That is why, I was the last person anyone would believe would do what I did.
So, it was all of those things working on my heart.....but unfortunately, my H was not on my heart. I felt nothing for him except contempt. It is just part of the WAW's mindset. It is a long story, but as they say, I had emotionally checked out of the M.
Breaking contact with the OM was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.....and I've had to do some hard things before. I had no idea how "addicted" I was to the EA. But, I had received all that information from this board about how the chemical works in your brain into fooling you and making you feel "in love" when it is all fake. So having that information and then seeing it happen to me......was enlightening, but still very hard. You just don't want to accept it. I saw OM as my knight to come rescue me from an unhappy life. He knew all the right words to feed my ego, but all he wanted to do was get in my panties. I was too blind to see that at the time, b/c I didn't want to see it, I wanted to believe that he really loved me and I tried to convince myself that I was in love with him.
I did not make a new circle of friends, but my answer to your question about what triggers that would be the fact that a WAW in MLC wants to completely change her life. She will, in fact, rewrite her history regarding her own M. She may begin to live a different lifestyle from what she ever has before. It is the mindset of the MLC that triggers it. The group of "friends" that she choses to be with has to encourage her lifestyle and many of her "old" friends will not agree with what she is doing and may try to talk to her about it. She doesn't want to hear it, so she writes them off and finds new people to hang out with and they will be the same type of person she has become.
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When we meet, she either acts cold and distant, or depressed.
Exactly! That is true to form.
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She broadcasted to the world our separation and everywhere blamed me for our M failure.
She has to do this in order to feel justified or try to make others think she is justified in doing what she has. Making you out to be the bad guy helps her.
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Third question is what actually make the MLC’rs wake-up? I know each situation is different, there is no silver bullet, however I would welcome some examples from people who went through this.
I gave you a very long version of my story, but as I said, it is a little unique from most of the other so-called MLC. I don't know for sure if that is what it was, but it sure seemed like it according to all that I read. I am not exactly sure at what point I went into it b/c I think it was gradual and I think I came out of it the same way. It took a very long time for me to get to feeling like my old self again. It took me a long time to be able to start feeling right by my H again. He would not go to counselor or anything, even though I asked him. He had too much pride and did not want to discuss our personal problems with others. Neither would he take any responsibility in the breakdown of the MR but yet he felt that I owed him an apology for having an EA. I finally did, but it took me a while b/c I was very angry at his arrogance. Things are much better now, but it took a long time. It doesn't have to take that much time for each couple, but in most cases, it does. But, most women or men that are in MLC doesn't usually come to this board. It is usually their S that comes here. Again, it was this board that really helped me the most.
I don't say any of this to discourage you. Just trying to tell you that her emotions will be like a rollercoaster ride and she will take you on it with her if you allow her to. You cannot believe anything she says b/c she may tell you one thing today and a completly different story tomorrow. I would tell myself in the mornings that I was going to stay at home with my H and by the time I got off work, I couldn't wait to get home and get on the computer to contact the OM. It is the most miserable thing to ever happen to an individual or to a couple. I can only thank God that I did not allow it to go any farther and lead to a PA. Getting over an EA for a woman is very hard b/c he fantasizes about the OM so much. Even after I broke the contact, I kept the A alive in my heart and that was almost as bad. Men or women that go to dinner with "friends" of the opposite sex is just asking for trouble and it bothers me that couples don't seem to think anything about it until they learn that one of them is having an EA.
Well, I need to stop. Didn't mean to write such a long post the very first time. Guess I broke you in right....lol. People here tease me about my long posts...but that's okay. I may have written to you before....your name seems familiar. So, if I have already told all of this to you..... I apologize for taking up so much space again.
If you ever need to talk or if I can help in any way, please feel free to ask.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I hope you, all the people on the DB Forum and all others dealing with their difficult marital issues have found some peace and quality time this Christmas!
Sandi, you are special because you write from the perspective of a WAW. I admire your courage and desire to share with people interested from your experience. Disregard the ones who beat you up! I wish some of your posts could be made available to the people in MLC which are using this transition period in their life to break-up marriages, with total disregard to the consequences, and also to the marriage therapists! Yes, you responded to one of my posts few months back.
Thanks for your sincere words, I recognize my W’s behavior… Both WAW and MLC. The HUGE exception is that she went through 2 PA’s, and therapy to validate her actions. Before and through our marriage therapy I was sincere and openly discussed our problems, admitted my flaws and the therapist was initially willing to help, recognizing a lack of communication from both of us, her overcontrolling behavior, however, after few solo sessions with her, she took her side. My W checked out of the M a while ago, before the therapy, and I guess the therapy was a last resort to convince everybody “we tried everything, it does not work”. After the separation I found out she was involved in an A during the therapy. Shortly after, the OM #2 appeared.
As a man who suffered a breach of trust and betrayal I felt my right last year to pinpoint the affairs to her. I just could not stomach the proof. Right or wrong from a DB point of view, it is part of human nature to react to such acts. You can imagine what her response and reaction was. Since then, I never mentioned anything about M/R/D. I let her deal with her problems and act civilized and I managed to release the tension between us, to experience me in a positive way.
My W’s MLC is much severe than others, not only because of the aging, being desired and sexy issues, there are some childhood issues unresolved too.
She has a stronger desire to travel , wanted to leave our son with me (which I was and I am ok with) and when she had the opportunities, only in the last moment she decided to take him with her. Now she is planning another vacation and is worried she could not entertain herself after she will put him to bed! How angry she was when I took a vacation with him! How I dare? On the contrary, I told her I am happy she can have some time off.
We celebrated together our birthdays, but she was way away. The fact we spent the Christmas together (and even shared gifts) does not say anything to me and, as it was posted numerous times, I don’t believe a word she is saying and only 25% of what she is doing. I posted my questions because somewhere I read that before potential reconciliation the WAW is testing the waters. What is that occasional family time together? Guilt? Desire to show people we are getting along? As I said, sometime she is normal, nice, often times cold and distant. Any advice?
You are not discouraging me Sandi, I am realistic. Could be OM #3, could be reconciliation, I don’t know and I am so sick and tired of all of this. I reached the saturation point.
I am happy our son adjusted well to the situation. Following a long period of time being neglected, it seems she is trying to pay more attention to him lately.
What is 2x4? I saw it mentioned on several other posts.
I apologize for taking up so much space again.