Praying For Us Every Day!

[still hopeful]

sunshine,

I can tell that you are a wonderful from the way that you post your messages about your situation. What I cannot stress enough is to reiterate what my friend, frank_D, posted to me quite a while back about my own situation, which was that I know my XW and my situation better than anyone on the DB boards ever could because posting here and/or relating my (sometimes faulty) memory of my experiences to others is a poor substitute to others actually experiencing what I have experienced, and even THAT would lead to different perspectives/opinions of the exact same happening.

Whew, now that was a long way of saying, READ, study, talk to others, pray, follow your hear and gut instincts but, most of all, mull over all information that comes to you and then YOU make YOUR decision because YOUR decisions to act or NOT act, to say or NOT say really affect only YOU and not other well meaning people in your life!

Again, I am almost three YEARS (ugh!) into my separation/divorce from my beloved XW. I do know that my biggest problem that I created for myself in life, and yes, in my M, is that I was playing a role of what I THOUGHT others expected of me, rather than simply being myself and THAT ROLE prevented me from being 100% truthful, open, honest and transparent in EVERY aspect of my life because I feared what those 'others' might think of who I REALLY am. I have always been my own worst critic and harshest judge, and I have ZERO tolerance for my own mistakes and messes. Forgiveness of myself has been impossible for me, which I feel has prevented others from forgiving me for being human. My own reluctance to be 100% gut-level honest with my XW is what has prevented me from connecting with my XW in a real way that could make a REAL positive difference.

Back in the beginning of my separation, I became VERY motivated to achieve a reconciliation in my M and to make my nuclear family whole again. I read, reflected and introspected tons. Rationally, I know that my affair is not THE reason for my D. Rationally, I know that I am not 100% responsible for the demise of my M over time. But rationality has not overridden my overwhelming sense of guilt, which Satan's tool to control me and instill doubts in me about my faith in Jesus' grace and mercy for me. Blaming my XW for her part has not exonerated me from my part, even though I know that my Savior has forgiven me. Blaming my XW is fruitless and completely counter-productive to what I truly want and what I believe God's will is.

To make a long story less long (too late?), I have learned so much about communication, honesty, commitment, betrayal, integrity, trust, forgiveness, separation, divorce, hope and faith. In the past, I knew them simply as words; definitions. In looking inward, I have come to terms that what I thought I had a handle on, I did not. Not really.

Casting Crowns' song, Stained-Glass Masquerade, rings true for me. I look at others and see only their shiny, seemingly perfect veneer. But that veneer is only for public display; for appearances. What I often fail to recognize and acknowledge is that, like me, people are THREE dimensional and their problems, like mine, are most often NOT voluntarily shown and are neither seen nor known by others. It has been my misguided wish to keep up my masquerade, especially in the face of my mistakes, that has led me to work overtime to keep up appearances even though most people around me already knew my truth that I would not admit to others.

What I am trying to say is that some people are eerily like me in their desire to keep up appearances, to maintain what they believe others expect of them. To my own detriment because I refused to acknowledge that FACT that I am not perfect; refused to acknowledge the FACT that my control is illusive, at best, and destructive in my trying to attain it. Perhaps your husband is fixed, like I have been, in believing that he is 'not good enough' for the good in his life and his subconscious is working overtime to make those feelings a reality through his actions and attitude.

The only real advice I can offer with any confidence is to focus on you and do EVERYTHING within your ability to remove your focus from him. You will push him further away by chasing him; by being do ever-available. Give him the gift of missing you. YOU are a cherished commodity. Start valuing yourself and treating yourself as such. Stop cheapening your time, your energy and your love. Be strong. Be interesting. Be lovable. Be sexy. Be desirable. Be mysterious (in an out of sight, NOT devious way). Limit your communication as much as you are able. Be the one who ends calls or visits because you have a pressing commitment or appointment. Be busy. Value you and increase the chances of him valuing you.

I know I have a tendency to ramble on. I will start off making one point and somehow end up on another. After my initial thread as hopeful_husband I have stopped editing and perfecting as I rambled on in my posts for grammar and sense, but I do hope that what I am conveying to you is that YOU control your attitude. YOU control your hope. YOU control your faith.

I have tons of people in my life who are well-meaning who steer me in the direction of giving up on reconciling my M. I know that a good deal of their reasons for wanting to protect me is in response to my experiences with XW as I have perceived, understood and conveyed them to others. I am certain that my perception was colored by my hurt, disappointment, pride and embarrassment; sadly, not good for anyone involved. Regardless, I keep remembering frank_D's directive to me to remember that I know my XW and my sitch better than anyone else and that decisions I need to make are MY decisions to make and no one else's.

In case your are wondering, my own sitch continues to swirl, but at least it is not continuing down the drain. 'Things' are in a lull for now, and I keep on keepin' on. I love my children. I love my wife from a safe distance. I prop her up more than I should, but I gotta be true to me. I keep reminding myself that, ultimately, if I don't take care of me right now, no one else will. I am not perfect. I have made mistakes. But darn it, I am worthy of my XW's love and I will keep striving to reconcile my M until God makes it clear to me that I am trying to bend His will to mine and not vice-versa.

I am with you, sunshine, as are others who have not yet chimed in. Vow to do what you KNOW is the right thing to do. WHEN you make a mistake, KNOW that God is never surprised when you fail; He expects it. You're human. YOU, on the other hand, are surprised when you fail and you beat yourself up, as I have. Instead, forgive yourself for your mistake, vow again to do better next time and congratulate yourself for even the smallest of successes in following your plan. For repeated failures, perhaps tweaking your plan is in order, but that is only changing the game plan, NOT changing your GOAL!

Be your own biggest cheerleader. Be your own biggest forgiver. Be your own biggest encourager. Find support in others; lots of others. The larger the circle of supporters, the less likely you are to OVER-burden them with your challenges and the MORE likely they will be ready, willing and able to listen and support you in time of need.

Much love to you and yours,
Tom

[sunshinelewis]

Update:
An old boyfriend from over 23 years ago contacted me and wanted to talk. We talked on my lunch and that night for almost 3 hours! I think this has helped me alot. He knows my situation and knows where I stand. We are just having friendly conversation. Anyway, I had to call my ex about some papers on the house, I told him I had a lunch date and he said. Great, you need to go on with your life. (this was yesterday). When he actually saw that I was going out to lunch his attitude seemed to change a little. He was nicer to me it seemed. I told him I needed to get a new bed and he offered to give me his. I said NO WAY, I wouldnt want his bed for obvious reasons. I also asked him about a letter that a woman had sent him, talking about their night together. He apoligzed and said he never meant for me to find out about it. (because he knew it would hurt me). I also said to him that I felt like our marriage was a lie (most of it anyway) and that he had been cheating on me a long time. He said NO our marriage wasnt a lie, and he promised he did NOT cheat on me.
When I question him about someone he has been with, he always promises me that it means nothing. Why does he do this? It's like he doesnt want me to be hurt or mad at him. He even will say that I am prettier.
I dont understand him. It's like, now that he knows I am actually going on with my life, he trys to explain himself better, and always makes sure I understand these women mean nothing. I told me tonight that I was done calling him and that I meant it this time. I just wanted to know when he left town, just for emergency cases.
He also says now, that he wants to try and help me pay for our house (that I got in the divorce).
What do you all take from his actions? Shed some light for me please.

Thanks,
Renee

[sunshinelewis]

bump

[still hopeful]

sunshine,

An old boyfriend from over 23 years ago contacted me and wanted to talk. We talked on my lunch and that night for almost 3 hours! I think this has helped me alot. He knows my situation and knows where I stand.

Did he contact you out of the blue? What's more important than he knowing where you stand, is YOU knowing where you stand. It's easy to get confused over receiving attention when you sorely need attention right now. Be careful of what you KNOW and what he BELIEVES in this new re-kindled R. When un-discussed discrepancies exist between the two, problems result. Trust me on this one. My XW has made this 'mistake' numerous times in her running. As you can probably tell by the my tone, it's neither amusing or fun in the long run. Wanting attention can be easily manipulated into the 'wrong' kind of attention from men.

Great, you need to go on with your life.

Convincing himself he's doing the right thing.

When he actually saw that I was going out to lunch his attitude seemed to change a little. He was nicer to me it seemed.

The sting of the potential heartache over losing you. Sometimes life sucks on both sides of these situations.

I told him I needed to get a new bed and he offered to give me his. I said NO WAY, I wouldnt want his bed for obvious reasons.

Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus.... My guess is that this is more of a problem from a woman's side than from a man receiving the same offer from his XW.

I also asked him about a letter that a woman had sent him, talking about their night together. He apoligzed and said he never meant for me to find out about it. (because he knew it would hurt me). I also said to him that I felt like our marriage was a lie (most of it anyway) and that he had been cheating on me a long time. He said NO our marriage wasnt a lie, and he promised he did NOT cheat on me.
When I question him about someone he has been with, he always promises me that it means nothing.

Try to eliminate or at least severely limit the R talk for now. Vent here. Talk to friends and family. Talking to him will only push him further away right now.

Why does he do this? It's like he doesnt want me to be hurt or mad at him. He even will say that I am prettier.

My guess is that he's trying to assuage his guilt by 'caretaking' you while he's leaving you behind. It's difficult, but work on not being so receptive to his compliments for a while.

I dont understand him. It's like, now that he knows I am actually going on with my life, he trys to explain himself better, and always makes sure I understand these women mean nothing.

Again, he's trying to make himself feel like the good guy while working towards divorcing you. It's not your job to feel sorry for him that these women he's involving himself with mean nothing supposedly.

I just wanted to know when he left town, just for emergency cases.

Do both of you have access to e-mail and/or text messaging? If so, use it to limit personal 'feeling' contact.

He also says now, that he wants to try and help me pay for our house (that I got in the divorce).
What do you all take from his actions? Shed some light for me please.

He is working to make himself NOT look like the bad guy and to NOT feel like the bad guy. Simple as that.

You and I, dear Renee, need to work on disengaging from and letting go of our X's and giving them the gift of missing us. The best advice I've received her is from phoenixdeux:

Letting go doesn't mean it's over...it just means you quit pining away and start to look at her as your EX wife. I've been where you are. I'm remarried to her, so I know there is hope...but it was just being open to possibility of reconciliation, without actually expecting it, that was more helpful.

Best wishes to you, Renee. Keep posting here and work on distancing yourself from your XH. With your free time, improve yourself: mind, body and spirit. This self work is your gift to you. You and those in your world will all benefit from the new you. Your XH will see what improvements you are making. You will BE more attractive. You don't need to tell him about it.

Tom

[sunshinelewis]

Tom I take from what you said my XH is only being nice to make hisself feel better. NOT to keep me hanging on? I thought this was so if he wanted to come home he could. So, he may really be DONE and I need to face it then?
If this is the case, and this info helps him, should I let him know I am trying to move on?

[still hopeful]

sunshine,

What I was trying to convey is that he's confused and that his anger and niceness are closely related. The opposite of love is indifference, not anger/hate. A lot of us on both sides of the fence are confused on the outside because we are confused on the inside.

I don't think you should go out of your way to let him know anything. If you asks you a question directly, answer him directly, but tactfully. You don't need to offer him any information. I have mostly kept my personal life out of my conversations with XW and certainly out of her view. I offer nothing about me because SHE wanted out. So she IS.

Work on YOU. As Radio Shack says, "Don't just buy stuff. Do stuff." Explore previously enjoyed pastimes, re-new old friendships, try out new hobbies, read about what interests you...simply make yourself more interesting and others will notice. He will notice. You will like YOU more. You're a great investment. Invest in you for the long term. SHOW him he's missing out on the new and improved you. HiS loss. His choice. Oh, well.

Tom

p.s. Hold your head high. Rise above this. The world is full of wonders, of which you are one.

[sunshinelewis]

ok guys listen to this...
I had not spoken to my xh in almost 4 days! I know that isnt alot, but to me it was a BIG step forward. Anyway, I was lying in bed this afternoon, awake, when I heard my front door close. I thought it was my son at first, so I yelled his name, he answered from his bedroom, (we were upstairs), so I went downstairs and yelled again, "Who is it?". No one answered, so I looked out the fron door, and my xh's vehicle was in my driveway. He had been in the downstairs bathroom. He came into the kitchen and my first reply was, "What the heck are you doing?", he said he had come by to pick up his MP3 player. I told him, that he just couldnt come in like this. He said he spoke with our son on the phone and asked him to hand the player out the door to him, but he wouldnt, so he came in to get it. I told him he needed to speak with me from now on, that I paid the bills at my house and I didnt like him just showing up. Anyway, we talked a little and he informed me that he wanted to completely be done with me. HELLO, I didnt call you for 4 days and now you show and tell me this!!!! Anyway, I asked him if that meant he wanted to be strangers and he said no, but very little contact. Blah, blah, blah. Mind you, anytime he seems upbeat and happy to be rid of me, there is usually someone else in the picture. (Getting smarter)
Well remember awhile back I had said I was talking to one of the women he had went out with and she was so nice to me. Well since then, she has called me and texted me and I thought she understand because she was going thru same thing. Turns out I should have listened to you people here. She has been telling my xh EVERYTHING (I think) that we have been talking about, and vice versa with him. She was playing both sides!
I confronted my xh about it tonight and we discussed it, not calmly at first, alot of hurt feelings came out of me, but then once I calmed down, we had a pretty good talk. He said she was playing us both, and he was done with her. (Who knows).
I told him,(and yess I cried), that it hurt me very much to think of him confiding in her about our talks. This was some of the things he said.
*He said he knew that I had been thru alot and he felt bad for
me. (He has admitted its his fault, finally)
*He said that he loved me most days.
*He said no one would ever come between his family, meaning his
son and I.
*He said she was like a favorite toy. I told him that I felt he
was feeling for her what he felt for me and we first met years
ago, and he said it wasnt even CLOSE to what he felt for me when
we met. He said he just like being with her because she was fun.

And before we hung up, he said he would call and check on me tomorrow.
Now, I do believe he was honest about his feelings. I never thought he stopped loving me, I knew he wouldnt admit it. I am not saying he is coming home, but I did say to him, that one day he would regret the things he has done and said to me, and I truly believe he will.
Listen, I truly think, that no matter what we do, if the other spouse has someone else in their life to play with, as my xh put it "a new toy", they could care less how dark we go and if we ever called. BUT, its when they are alone, that they miss us.
If I am wrong, please correct me.
Well that was my evening story. Comments Please! Go ahead and let me have it. lol

[still hopeful]

I am with you, sister. My XW always warmed up to me whenever she was between 'flavors-of-the-months.' She sees me as safe, as long as I don't mind being her emotional tampon and don't want anything from her in return like respect and/or a marriage.

I am simply taking my steps, as I find myself able, to disengage. I know, for myself, even the smallest of steps in that direction are HUGE for me and I need to congratulate myself and acknowledge my progress in the right direction, instead of beating myself up because my steps aren't big enough, didn't come fast enough or weren't perfect.

Good luck, sister. Keep posting for your sanity. Keep working on you and making yourself more attractive for yourself. YOU are worth it. Your work on you is your gift to YOU, and YOU get to keep that gift forever.

Letting Go Tom

[sunshinelewis]

I know we talk alot about WAS and MLC but do men and women just divorce or walk away because they are truly just "unhappy"? I mean does their really have to be anything wrong with "them".
I had to talk to my xh due to finances. I am having a hard time, and I told him I wasnt use to this situation and he replied that he knew he put me in this situation and divorced me but he wasnt living unhappy anymore. He really cant tell me what in particular made him unhappy. But, just that he was unhappy. What if he truly is just unhappy, why cant I just say, ok, tell me why and we can fix it. What's wrong with that?

[still hopeful]

Marriages today lack 3 critical components, often time from the beginning, and sometimes because the M becomes the convenient scapegoat for one's inability to commit for life (not just until it becomes difficult or inconvenient), their inability to be completely honest, and/or their inability to communicate regularly in the environment of complete honesty and undying commitment.

Sometimes it's one partner who falters and other times it's both. In a committed M, when one partner has difficulty and/or falters, their other partner must step up to fulfill their responsibility to assist their partner back to emotional health and strength. And sometimes, the faltering partner is unable or unwilling to admit their need for assistance, but with commitment and regular communication, the faltering will be apparent to the other spouse, who offers his/her assistance in healing with love and undying devotion.

Your husband was not 'just' unhappy. Several factors may have led to his unhappiness, including your inability to be attractive to him, his lingering unmet (and probably uncommunicated) expectations led to unresolved frustration (again still uncommunicated), which resulted in anger and his disengaging from you and emotionally detaching. None of this would have gone unnoticed if your commitment, honesty and regular communication were in place. And the tell-tale sign may only have been his unwillingness to communicate which would have been awfully difficult to miss.

Those three marital ingredients are the necessary legs that hold a marriage above the and out of trouble, and if one or more are weakened or removed, the table will simply fall because because all three are essential for a happy, healthy and whole marriage.

Your XH is simply not communicating the truth because he may have lied to himself for so long that he believes his own lie as truth. Your task is to strengthen and improve yourself; to disengage behaviorally and detach emotionally. I have found that changing my behavior is much easier, and it removes your suffering and sadness from the view of your XH. It is the detaching emotionally that I am finding more difficult because I haven't yet emotionally divorced my XW. I need to do that because I am only wasting my life by living my life this way.

As phoenixdeux posted to me, I must let go. Letting go does not mean giving up, it simply means seeing my XW as my ex and not as my wife and living my life for me; no longer expecting our reconciliation, but remaining open to it. Hope that all helps. Live your life for you. Go to the library and check out new books to read. As an aid, log in to amazon to read summaries and reviews from other readers to assist in making your choices. If nothing else, this is a productive way to pass your free time and it will infuse your mind with new stories and ideas and make you an even more interesting woman.