HELP! I have never been more lost!

[Trippingbilly]

So, starting this April till now. This is like the 4th time, my wife after 7 years has said that she does not feel a connection with me, doesn't feel like she is in love with me, (but she still loves me of course) and is not attracted to me sexually. We have two kids, 6yr old little girl and a 5 yr old little boy.

To give you my story. At the beginning, my wife was totally in love with me, she was 18, and I was about 23. We dated for a while, she moved in with me and everything was going great. We split and she moved out for about a month. Then we got back together. I asked her during this time, did she sleep with anyone else, she replied no. Well a few months went by and she ended up pregnant. I re-asked the same question, she replied with the same answer, and she had no doubt the baby was mine and we could have the test to prove it. So that was the deal.

She delivered in April, and there was something wrong cause the baby had none of my features. She still stuck to it was my kid...on up to the moment that I had the DNA test people on the phone, she came up and admitted that she slept with her old boyfriend during the break up. So we had the test, and it ended up being his. I was destroyed, for I had too just lost my father. So I asked her to leave, so her and the little girl moved out. I could not deny tha fact that I loved her, and wanted that kid to be mine more than anything, I mean it was practically mine, I was there for everything but the sex. LOL! So anyway, it gets more complicated. In August during her pregnancy, the biological father got in a car wreck and died. He never knew anything about the kid. well I am faced with a delima now. I loved her and I really had developed a love for the baby girl. So I had to make a decision, she had nothing for herself. So after allot of mind torturing, I decided to be the babies father and forgive my girlfriend (at the time) for her lie.

So we get married, and then we have a little boy. This one eneded up being mine. LOL! Fast forward about two or three years. She had started a new job and everything (I thought was going well) We had bought a house and was living well. I had been working on my car every evening after work until bedtime. She had said something to me about it a couple of times, but no serious talking. My wife does not communicate very well. So anyway, I had to go to the next town over for my buddys family member had passed away. She was sick, so half way down I decided to go back and take care of her and be with the kids so she could get some rest. As I turned into my road, I saw her on her mom's car leaving, so I figured she may be going to the immediate care, so I followed her. Meanwhile, she drover further and further away from town. then she stopped at a store and sat in her car, this was not looking good, I had the butterflies, my stomach was twisting in knots. Sure enough, you guessed it, a guy pulls up, they talk for a second and then she follows him out from the store.

So I followed them to a house where they met at and then went inside. I went to a friends house and fell to pieces. Upon arriving home she acted as if everything was normal, then I let her know that I knew where she had been and that I had followed her. She denied that it was anyone, for a while iuntil I badgered her, until she admitted it was a guy from work. She said that he made her feel like I used to. So she said they messed around and kissed and ect but she didn't sleep with him. Then a year later she finally admitted to sleeping with him. This sort of brought back the whole bad feeling. Now for the next few years.

I was jealous of course like anyone would be. I questioned her, I checked up on her, checked her computer history ect. Now over the next three years, this slowly progressed into an obsession for me. It got worse and worse. Funny thing is, and I did some pretty damn extensive "PI" work, I never caught her in a lie or anything funny. But I could not stop my obsession, a mater of fact it kept getting worse. It took over my life nearly. Now this started to become a problem, I would not let her go out with her friends, if she did, it wasn't anything big and she got a million questions when she got home. I put software on our laptop because she had gotten OBESESSED with "Myspace" and started staying on the computer from the time we got home till bedtime. I got her a phone to be nice, but then I ended up checking the bill everyday and if it was a number I didn’t recognize, I’d call it. This often ended up at times causing issues cause her friends would tell her that I called.

This got worse and worse over the years until now. She had had a few conversations with me how this jealousy thing was getting bad and that it was pushing her away and ect ect. And that she wanted to be able to go out with her friends and stuff like that. But never to the point to where she said that she was literally unhappy with the marriage or me and that she was thinking about leaving. Finally in April of this year (2008) she said that she was unhappy and that she had lost all feelings for me and that she didn’t think she was in love with me anymore. So I was devastated at the thought of losing her and the family. I cried and begged and pleaded and fell all to pieces. I stopped eating, couldn’t go to work ect. She was sooooooooo cold hearted and unaffected it seemed by this. When I would cry she would tell me how pathetic and weak I was, and how I needed to get a hold of myself and that her seeing me beg and cry ect was so unattractive and made her want to leave worse. She said that she had grew to hate me for trying to act as if I was her father and keeping her locked down and not being able to go anywhere or do things while she watched her married friends do so. Also that I had changed, I was not social anymore and that I stayed at home and we never went anywhere anymore. Which was true, I had become that person, sort of alienated from everyone and friends. But we had both talked and that was our point of view on things. She used to think family was most important because she grew up with out one. So she always said that keeping us together was the most important thing.

She admitted that she still loved me as a father and I was her best friend, but it wasn’t there romantically. She said that she didn’t want to break up the family and she didn’t know what her life was going to be without me and she was scared to death to think about it. During this time being apart, we stayed in the same house, and it was tough, she had made it clear that she didn’t have a problem staying there together but we WERE NOT “together.” We slept in the same bed and tried not to fuss. We did sit the kids down, I was about to fall apart telling them, and she told them just like we were having a regular conversation about cookies or something, not a tear in her eye. She told them that mommy and daddy were going to be living in separate houses and that they would stay with daddy sometimes and mommy sometimes. That they would have two houses and that we were always going to be mommy and daddy. They fell to pieces crying and asking why, she just said that sometimes in life this is how it turned out, and that she loved daddy but not in the husband and wife kind of way.

Also during this, she came out and told me she was going to be truthful with me as she promised herself she would be. She had dated the same guy from like age 14 till we met. When we met, she left him and never really spoke to him again. She said that a while back she started having dreams about him. Not sexual or anything, but she would wake up sad and she didn’t know why. She said that he was her best friend for a long time and even she missed him and she didn’t know why. BTW, this guy is like the biggest loser in the planet. A drunk, can’t hold a job, used to physically abuse her, abused the girl he was with now and had recently had a child that he really didn’t pay much attention to. Then she went to see his family one day and she said that she thought that they would make the feeling of missing him go away. But she said that it made it worse. She was there to see his mom and sister, but while she was there, him and his current girlfriend came in. She said they basically just said hey. So anyway, she told me that she didn’t know what was going on, she knew he was sorry but she thought she was still in love with him. I asked if that’s what she wanted? A life with him? She said no, but she didn’t know how to deal with these feelings. She SWORE it was not because of someone else and that there was no guy that she had met or anything like that. And again, I did some “PI” work and could not find anything. They would talk all the time at work, but she would never talk to him at home. This bothered me bad. She said that she did not tell him she loved him or discussed “us” with him. Later I had spoken with his girlfriend and she was telling me that The guy had told his friend that he was leaving her and that he was in love with someone else and he knew that that person loved him too. Also he had told his girlfriend that Kris had told him how in sane psycho jealous I was and ect. When I approached her with this, she denied it until I basically had her to the point where she couldn’t get out of it.

This was tough on the kids and me. She still seemed unbothered. During this time, she found about 4 places to move to. The last place she was going to meet the guy to give him the deposit and she had borrowed money from her 401 K to move out. The day before, she was to pay the deposit, she came to me and said she was scared and not sure this is what she wanted to do. There was a beach music festival the next town over and she asked me what I thought about (since she has never stayed away from me over night), her going with her friends to the beach music festival and just get away for the weekend. So I figured that things were going to go the way they were going or worse, so I agreed. This was tough as hell for me. Well I had told her to go and don’t call, I had the kids and if there was a problem, I would call her. So she left that Friday without telling me goodbye. But she ended up calling me right much that Saturday. She got drunk and what not and went to the festival and stayed with her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s boyfriend. So I went out Saturday night and spoke with her before hand. So I am sitting at the club and she text me on my phone and says, She loved me. I was like WTF? Then my phone rings and it’s her saying that she had thought about coming back home that night instead of the next morning. Then in a few minutes I get another call and it’s her asking directions how to get home. When I got home that night, we talked and before she went to sleep she leaned over and gave me a real kiss, which hasn’t happened in a while at that time.

Every thing was going good, she said that she had realized that the thing with her old BF was just her missing him as a person and that she knew for a fact that she WAS NOT in love with him. So I even agreed to her talking to him ever so often to touch base with him and see how he was doing. Cause this was a companion of hers for a long time, then she meets me and she breaks all communication with him for 7 years or so. Well this became a problem as they still talked at work when they talked and they were still talking two or three times a week. If I asked if they talked, she would tell me, even if it was allot that week. So, I am assuming that she was telling me when they talked. So we fussed about this until she finally got mad and said she would handle it. But now since she had been talking to him , he and his girlfriend had broken up and she said she felt like a bitch for coming back into his life and them breaking up and then for her to say she couldn’t talk to him anymore. I told her that if he was her friend that she should have been able to say, “Hey this is causing a problem in my marriage and my family is what is important to me, but I have to respect that and I hope you understand.” Well she thought that was wrong, but somehow she said she told him that they could talk all the time.

So I fixed my part, I started taking her places and we started going out, I let her go places with her friends and I stopped ALL the jealousy problems. I stopped checking behind her ect. And it felt good, so I fixed my part, even started going to a therapist, she wouldn’t go, but I did. I was happier and she said that things were great.

Later that summer, she started back, she was talking down to me again, insulted everything I did. Nit picked at everything I did. And just talked DOWN to me like a little 12 year old punk, which is basically what I have become. And it’s embarrassing. So anyway after a while, the whole not being in love with me not able to get those feelings thing came back and it all repeated again. To be honest, I can’t remember what happened but we patched it back up again. Then she started being a bitch again, so this time, I packed up my stuff and I moved in with a friend. During this, it started out as do what you want, I think it’s stupid but you do what you got to do thing. So I stayed gone. Then she started getting in touch with me and telling me I needed to be there for my kids and that they missed me ect. I told her that I was aware of what my kids needed. And I didn’t want to hear her ask med to come back home because of the kids. I wanted her to want me to come back home. I basically stayed away from her and gave her space. Then the calls increased, the more I withdrew, the more she advanced. If she tried to kiss me, I would not kiss her back, or hugging her or anything. Finally she told me that she missed me and that she LOVED the way she felt right now. She loved that she was jealous of the girl at my work, and she loved “wanting” to kiss me and love on me. And she wanted me back home. For about a week I stayed at my friends and we talked about things. I said are you sure that you want me back home and that you want to work on our marriage and things. She said that she had never been more sure. She loved me and wanted to get back together, so after about a week, I moved back home. Everything went good until early this month.

I could tell something was wrong for she had been staying on the computer, going to the bedroom to watch TV, not talking that much to me, basically, as much as she could without being called out, was trying to avoid me as much as she could. So I went in the bedroom where she was and said “What’s wrong?” She said nothing a few times as I persisted, then she said, “I don’t like hurting you.” So I asked what was going on, she stated that she just wasn’t happy. As she told me, this time, the “excuse” seem to be more towards the bedroom, which I wasn’t aware that there were EVER any problems in the bedroom. But she said that the romantic side of things was just not there anymore and no matter how hard she tried, they just wouldn’t come back. She still stated that the whole jealousy thing and me following her and checking up on her had ruined her. She said that she can’t lose that feeling that she is being followed or someone is watching her or every time she is on the computer, she can’t say what she really wants to say to her friend because she feels like somehow I am reading it or am going to be reading it. Then she says that starts to feel that hatred coming up inside her. So we talked a little and as usual you can’t talk to her, she is VERY defensive and short about things. She just said that it was over, she didn’t want me, She didn’t want to be married to me anymore ect. When I tried talking about how much this would affect the kids, she stated, “It will be exactly how we make it. If we make it all sad, then it will be sad, if we make it good and make it seem normal, then they are not going to be affected by it one bit.”

So I got all of my things and moved back in with my friend Dustin, (thankful for him, don’t know what I’d do without him) she didn’t seem to mind, but also, she didn’t ask me to leave either. She said that I could stay there, and we could be friends and parents but understand very clearly that we were not together and that she didn’t want to be all kissing and hugging and all lovey dovey because she wasn’t feeling it. She said that we could stay there and get through Christmas and then reassess things then to see how she was feeling, but she said that she keeps hearing from her friends (her cheerleaders squad) that once you lose those feelings, you never get them back. Of course this is what her friend is telling her.

Real quick, she’s got this friend Tina, that was married for 10 years to a guy in the military, and he was gone all the time. So she left him. They have two kids, and she and he are still good friends, but he still wants the marriage to work. So they get along and every thing, but she doesn’t want to stay married he does. Ever since my wife met Tina, shortly after is when we started having issues. My wife LOVES this girl, And it’s kind of like she idolizes her. She speaks allot about how she wants things and how she feels and it’s verbatim to how Tina says she feels about things and how her relationship is with her X husband, them being best friends and able to hang out and everything, but I want the marriage to work and not really sure she does.

So as things stand now, I have read Michelle’s book, and I have been implementing her techniques, I have such a hard time doing these techniques. Not asking questions and checking on her. And everything. But I must say, that it seems to be giving me small results, but at the same time, I am scared to death of that what I’m seeing is me getting the wrong impression. I see her making the call to me, and texting me and we have been hanging out lately at our house together and have even stayed there the past two nights. But we have been getting along what I would call great, laughing, and just enjoying each others company. But like I said, I am also scared that what I’m seeing is her being nice and things may be going how “she” wants them too, and at the end of December, she;s going to say “Well we have been getting along great as friends but there’s still no romantic feeling there!” We have also been texting on our phones and have even talked and flirted a little bit and had fun! Now…the problem that makes me want to jump from a bridge and just end it all.

This coming Thursday, she is going out with this Tina girl to a Christmas party. I don’t know what kind of Christmas party it is or whose it is. She said she does not know either, She says that Tina called and asked and she said yes. So she needed me to stay at the house that night. So I asked was she staying out all night and she said that she and Tina were getting a hotel room so that they could drink and not have to worry about driving back home. This drives me crazy, I can’t eat or sleep, every time I close my eyes, all I think about is her being out all night and getting a hotel room. Is she really going to a Christmas party? Is she really going with Tina? Is she really getting a hotel room and if so, who with REALLY. Or could she be staying with someone else. I asked her has she been with any other guy, kiss or been on a date or anything. She swears up and down that she hasn’t. And then after she left last night, she text me and said that her promise still stands, that she hasn’t been with anyone and she promised that that night, it was nobody else involve except for her and Tina and they were just getting a room so that they could drink ect.

I don’t know what to think or believe. There is also a little rumor going around that she has been talking to her old boyfriend, the one mentioned earlier. I asked her has she talked to him or seen him and she swore that she hasn’t talked to him at ALL. But I am wondering there too.

What do I do? I am trying so hard to follow Michelle’s book, I know they are the right moves and if I am going to make progress, I need to follow them, but it so hard not to ask her more about this Christmas party or ask again and again if she is talking to her old boyfriend again, just to see if nothing more, if I can tell if she is lying when I ask her. I get so depressed sometimes, I can’t think of anything to do, I just want to swallow a handful of pills and sleep forever but I don’t want to do that to my kids, I don’t want to be that weak, but I love this girl so much and I don’t want to throw away our family and all that we have worked for. I would love to hear some opinions or words of encouragement. Sorry that this post got soooo long, but I wanted you all to know every thing that she and I have been through so I could get your full opinion or advice. Thank you for your time!

[Trixi]

Trippingbilly-
I don't really have any advice. You say you read Michelle's books, so you know that you are suppposed to Get A Life... They say that you should believe none of what you hear (from a WAS) and half of what you see.

She has cheated on you more than once; one time we could use the Ross&Rachel "we were on a break" excuse, the other time, there is no excuse.
The reason the snooping escalated, even when you didn't find evidence, is because the real issue is that you actually don't trust her. If you did, you wouldn't keep looking for the evidence. Some of it was a little self-indulgent on your part...But I am glad to hear it stopped. NoBODY likes to feel spied on.
You need to decide you can trust yourself to handle the outcome, no matter what it is.

She told you she doesn't like it when you are wimpy and break down, so don't do it. You can't control her. Do I think the Christmas party thing is a great idea? heck no! But, you can't control her- she is rebelling. Once you know you can handle the outcome NO MATTER WHAT, she will see a strong man; you will not feel the need to spy or control; you will be able to GAL for yourself that helps you grow as a person...

The WAS will do what they do. Find your inner strength. You should purchase some DB coaching. I have talked to Jody and I really like her. In fact, that is the first thing I would do if I were you.
Keep us posted!

[Trippingbilly]

So, real quick let me get this acronym straight so I can communicate with you. "WAS" "Wife after seperation?"

Yeah I know, you are exactly right, on what I need to do, GOD it is just so hard! It's like fighting another person inside my head. I struggle so bad, and I know when I ask a stupid question...it's like a voice down deep saying "Dude, this is just one more step you are pushing her away." But then it seems I always lose, and question her anyway. Just this afternoon, I made a comment to her in a text (tried to do it in a joking way) about her not liking sex with me, and then I said "She only wants to do that in a hotel room and it aint with me." Well the text stopped there, I hadn't heard a response from her since. So I sit here and battling if I should text her back and ask her why she hadn't responded, then I feel like I am pushy.

I gotta get a hold of things and get out of this punk ass state I am in now. But then the feeling comes on, that if I go out and start having fun or out with friends that are girls, then if she REALLY isn't seeing anyone, then that may spark her off to do so, then I feel like I caused her to do it, like I screwed it up, even though she told me that I need to do what I felt I needed to do. Also I feel like that I am playing Russian Rullette with my family and I would be screwing the whole thing up by going out with other girls. I have always been faithful to her, god it wouldn't even feel right. But anyway Trixie, thanks for responding, it's good to here what other people think.

[Trixi]

First, WAS is Walkway Spouse. As opposed to the LBS or Left Behind Spouse.
Here is a link for abbreviations: Abbreviations

"She only wants to do that in a hotel room and it aint with me."

Yuck. Don't do that. You are pushing her away and "proving" her right to disconnect. Icky. She is not going to think that is funny at all. It comes off as manipulative.

even though she told me that I need to do what I felt I needed to do.

She is disconnected from you. She doesn't want to be the bad guy or responsible for how you are feeling. You have to get a grip and STOP making her responsible for your feelings. She doesn't want that responsibility and overtures to try to suck her into the job will probably make her run.

I would be screwing the whole thing up by going out with other girls.

Who said anything about going out with other girls?? Go jogging, go to the gym, have a guys poker night, attend a class to learn a language or something else you have always wanted to do, take a cooking class, go to individual counseling, go out to dinner with a group of friends, invite guys over for action movie night, take up an instrument, learn to sing, go to church, learn to paint, finish up home improvement projects that have been left half done, restore a car, attend a wine tasting, go skiing, hiking, camping, golfing, boating, decorate cookies with the kids, decorate a gingerbread house with the kids.....see what I mean? None of these have anything to do with other women. They have to do with YOU getting a life that makes YOU happy.

Turn your focus away from her. Did you say you have the DB and DR books? Re-read them. Come up with some goals for yourself and what would look like babysteps in your relationship.

And finally, breathe. Breathe in....Breathe out. Get in the moment. Having trouble getting in the moment- focus on something near you. Pick up a pen and really look at it. Look at the lettering, the ink on the ball point. feel the weight of it. How it balances in your hand. Focusing on something in great detail will help you get in the moment and stop obsessing.

[ms ladybug]

I just logged in because I was going to respond, but Trixi beat me to what I was going to say. Get a Life IS NOT about going out with other women. It certainly isn't going to help things either. So, just put that thought on hold. I lOVED the other suggestions for GAL the Trixi gave you.
Your wife need to see NOW that she is not responsible for your happiness. She needs to see that you CAN be OK without her (and believe it or not, you CAN). THAT is what is going to attract her to you.

[Trippingbilly]

Thanks ladies, I really appreciate the words. I just have to just stop losing these battles and make the right moves instead of all the wrong moves. But I feel like I am ripping apart inside when I want to know something like "Where's this christmas party at?" "What kind of party is it?" Ect. Man it's hard. But I am going to try to get a hold of myself now and really start to do all the right things, I know that I really only have a certain amount of time before she tells me she is seeing someone else, or maybe she's not now but is going to start to. She is so beautiful and I know she needs a guy, she has to have that security. So I really have to buckle down.

Thanks again ladies.

[ted187]

hey billy,
I haven't posted on here in quite awhile, As a man that got left by my wife I'll try and give you the best advice I can give, because now looking back on things I should have listened more carefully to the advice I got on these boards. My w left me for someone that she works with, and it was driving me insane, I thought about it every second of the day and night, I found out about the OM through incessant snooping. That was my first mistake, it made things 20x worse because I thought of them together and it took all my energy,INSTEAD of fixing things about myself that maybe would have brought her back. My second mistake was that I didn't realize knowing what was truly going on wasn't going to change the situation I was in. I have gotten past everything that has happened to me, but I took the long,bad road. I best advice I can give you is to really "listen" to other posters on here, I read the words, but still didn't hear what was being said, maybe if I had things would have turned out different, maybe not, but the point is I could have saved myself alot of grief, and could have gotten myself to a muchh better place faster if I would have heeded some of the advice I got from here.

[Trippingbilly]

Man, I am glad I found this board. This is great to come up here and hear you people's stories and advice, it's great and I think I am going to benefit from it tremendously. I have tried to make a promise to myself that TODAY I am goig to try to start a new life, method of life whatever you want to call it. I'll admit somethings I am sure I will screw up on, but it will only be because I really don't know what to do, maybe you guys can help me out if I need any advice.

Again, I do sincerely appreciate the advice and time you take to come up here and give it to me. Well let's get started with this new day shall we.

[Trippingbilly]

Well interesting chain of events....Friday night, we got home from going out (I play in a band) and when we got to the house she hopped in the bed, she had drank that night and said that she wasn't drunk, she didn't act like it either, but she said that she could tell she had drank. but anyway, I went to go ahead and leave to go back to my friends house I am staying at and she acted disappointed a little bit, and was like "Shut up and get int the bed." So I eneded up staying. I hopped in the bed and she immediately snuggled up with me, (which is odd to begin with cause she never has been a cuddler) Then she started kissing on me and we ended up having sex. It was great, and she agreed. The next morning I went back to my friends house and I eneded up later texting her and said WTF was that about and I hope that it wasn't anything she woke up regretting or thinking to herself why did I do that for? And she replied: "It was about us both wanting sex with each other and it was Great!"

We are still the same after all this. I mean this hasn't fixed everything and we are still not kissing or hugging or making any contact, not saying "I love you." I guess we have been getting along the same.

So man, did I make the wrong move, should I have stopped this from happening or should I just consider this done, and let it all go how it's going? Count this as a small baby step maybe on the positive side and keep rolling with it? Of course I am trying to watch her and read into every thing, trying not to read too much and see normal things as "bad" things. But I am also hoping too that this didn't negatively impact us for the bad. Any thoughts , advice, welcome, thanks!

[built4speed]

Don't get all wrapped around one night. In the long run it's meaningless. The day-to-day stuff tells you nothing. The long run is what you are after.

And obviously you need to stop the snooping.

Your answer is contained right in your post:

"I basically stayed away from her and gave her space. Then the calls increased, the more I withdrew, the more she advanced. If she tried to kiss me, I would not kiss her back, or hugging her or anything. Finally she told me that she missed me and that she LOVED the way she felt right now. "

That is from your post. You were DBing and didn't even realize it.

It's hard to tell, but you are different with her in your "normal" interactions and there is something about you which pushes her away. When you back away you are more interesting to her. That is the lever you can use to improve your interaction. It is classic DBing. When you are totally available to her, your "stock" is not worth as much as when it is rarer. Simple supply-demand. Too much you, price goes down. Less you, price goes up. Perhaps you are being a bit smothering? Either way, you need to work on your stuff and not spend so much time in her stuff. That is also classic DBing.

So, GAL. Get more friends. Spend more time with the kids, etc. You HAVE to quit focussing on everything she is doing and get your life in order. Don't worry, she'll notice. As you become a better human being, you are more interesting to be around. That will attract and interest her.

Get a long term plan and work toward it. Have you created your DB goals? What do you want to improve in your life?

Consider some counseling. I did during my divorce and am still going after 3 years. Progress is slow, but steady.

Good luck!