Do NOT let her meet with him, or even call him, to get "closure." Think about it: how much sense does it make to use another contact to tell a man that you can't have contact???
Reasonable people can disagree about exposure, telling the kids, etc., and some of the other controversial concepts around here. This is one that I have never, EVER seen work ... it HAS to be done cold-turkey.
If she refuses to do it, then you'll have your answer.
Puppy
P.S. This WILL be hard for her to do, because she has genuine feelings for him, and you have to come to grips with that. It's okay to validate her -- "I know this is hard for you, but it's gotta be done," but don't NEGOTIATE with her. It should be a deal-breaker. Complete no-contact and full transparency.
P.P.S. I speak from experience. I wavered on this, allowed my wife to call him to "say goodbye" and "get closure." First she stalled for two days, then one phone call became two, became three, became an in-person 'goodbye', became a COMPLETE REKINDLING OF THE AFFAIR.
You said: "I hear what you are saying about things being fragile and you feeling you have little bargaining power. The only thing I would say to you is that you may hamper your R efforts by appearing "weak" in her eyes by letting her carry on things with the OM or allowing her to contact him to say goodbye."
I hadn't considered appearing weak in her eyes. You're right. I need to take more definitive action on bringing the affair to a conclusion.
You said: "You didn't say if the OM is married or if he and your wife work together?"
He is not married. He's the kind of guy who hangs out in bars. That's his life. He and my wife do NOT work together.
You said: "I would call your wife at her word. If she 'believes' in R with you, she will do all she can to satisfy your needs in formally and completely ending her affair."
Good point. She has disregarded my needs for a long time.
You said: "I think in terms of 'diminshed bargaining position', I think you tolerating a cake eating and untruthful wife will undermine you much more than setting out firm and fair boundaries and follwing through on the consequences if she does not cease all contact with the OM."
Good point about failure to act decisively having an undermining effect.
You said: "I think total no contact with the OM has to be your ultimate line in the sand and R with you is not possible as long as she still has any contact with him at all."
You're right. This situation has to be brought to a conclusion immediately. She can't be allowed to drag it out any further. Total no contact must be the goal.
Thanks for your input on my situation. I really appreciate your insights.
me: 50 w (waw): 45 daughter: 9 m: 16 t: 19 bomb: 9/26/08 status: physical separation for 7 weeks, then work-in-progress R
You and Scotsman seem to be in agreement on this. I'm sure it will be a tough sell to my wife. I think she was very, very close to choosing him over me. She clearly has very strong feelings for him. And the phone records show her calling him almost every day for two months.
You said: "I speak from experience. I wavered on this, allowed my wife to call him to "say goodbye" and "get closure." First she stalled for two days, then one phone call became two, became three, became an in-person 'goodbye', became a COMPLETE REKINDLING OF THE AFFAIR. "
Yes, that's exactly what I'm afraid could happen here--unless I do what you and Scotsman have advocated.
You said: "It's okay to validate her -- 'I know this is hard for you, but it's gotta be done,' but don't NEGOTIATE with her. It should be a deal-breaker. Complete no-contact and full transparency."
Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you're right. This is gonna be tough.
me: 50 w (waw): 45 daughter: 9 m: 16 t: 19 bomb: 9/26/08 status: physical separation for 7 weeks, then work-in-progress R
Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you're right. This is gonna be tough.
It certainly was for me. I am, by nature, a classic "Mr. Nice Guy" -- a rescuer/pleaser, who can't even pull off a freaking PRACTICAL JOKE for more than 2-3 seconds before shouting "Just kidding!" because I can't stand to see someone uncomfortable.
I avoid conflict like the plague.
So yeah, it was the single hardest thing I ever had to do in my life.
Puppy's bang on - I think you will feel very empowered afterwards and you need that right now. Operating from a position of strength is always better.
Your wife needs to know that, whilst you want her back and are willing to work on all your issues, no contact is non negotiable for you and you will not enter a phoney R phase whilst she is in any contact with him.
I think it's also good for you to know and believe that you will do just great in your life without her and therefore do not have to submit to her terms all the time for fear of losing her. She needs to show you she is worth it and is serious. I think you would be doing yourself a huge disservice but not laying out and enforcing boundaries, especially the no contact one.
Keep posting..you will do great..Scotsman
Me - LBS 47yrs old Her - WAW 34yrs old DD - 10yrs old Together - 15 months Bomb - 28/07/15 "I still love you but can't deal with situation"
Just to re-emphasize, don't go down the road of trying to control or change her behaviour by telling her what she must do. Don't run down the OM either, give him as little time and importance in your conversation as possible. Just focus on what your behaviour will be if she refuses verifiable no contact.
If you come across as trying to control her, it is likely to backfire. Also if you "slander" the OM she may jump to his defence and you might actually bring them closer together. So just focus on you ok?
You're basically saying to your wife "you're a person of free will and I have neither the power nor inclination to control your behaviour. However, as long as you still have any contact with the OM I will not work on this marriage with you. If your situation changes and you have a change of heart, let me know. At this momment in time I am still willing to talk about restoring our marriage."
Bye..Scotsman
Me - LBS 47yrs old Her - WAW 34yrs old DD - 10yrs old Together - 15 months Bomb - 28/07/15 "I still love you but can't deal with situation"
You said: "Your wife needs to know that, whilst you want her back and are willing to work on all your issues, no contact is non negotiable for you and you will not enter a phoney R phase whilst she is in any contact with him."
This helps. You're right. It would be a phony R until she agrees to no contact with the OM.
Thanks.
me: 50 w (waw): 45 daughter: 9 m: 16 t: 19 bomb: 9/26/08 status: physical separation for 7 weeks, then work-in-progress R
You said: "You're basically saying to your wife 'you're a person of free will and I have neither the power nor inclination to control your behaviour. However, as long as you still have any contact with the OM I will not work on this marriage with you. If your situation changes and you have a change of heart, let me know. At this momment in time I am still willing to talk about restoring our marriage.'"
This really helps. Thanks.
me: 50 w (waw): 45 daughter: 9 m: 16 t: 19 bomb: 9/26/08 status: physical separation for 7 weeks, then work-in-progress R
exactly Gary. There's story after story on here about failed R's because contact was still happening. For you, why put forth the mental, physical and emotional effort into improving things when they will always be sabbotaged by the ongoing contact? It's unreasonable for anyone (your wife) to expect otherwise from you. You have had enough pain already, it's time to focus on protecting and healing yourself. If your wife wants to join you on that journey then all the better, as long as she is motivated by "you" and "you and her" and not "him" and "her and him". You deserve far better.
Me - LBS 47yrs old Her - WAW 34yrs old DD - 10yrs old Together - 15 months Bomb - 28/07/15 "I still love you but can't deal with situation"
exactly Gary. There's story after story on here about failed R's because contact was still happening. For you, why put forth the mental, physical and emotional effort into improving things when they will always be sabbotaged by the ongoing contact? It's unreasonable for anyone (your wife) to expect otherwise from you. You have had enough pain already, it's time to focus on protecting and healing yourself. If your wife wants to join you on that journey then all the better, as long as she is motivated by "you" and "you and her" and not "him" and "her and him". You deserve far better.
