My main thread is over in Newcomers. But I'm going to be attending Retrouvaille next weekend. I thought I would post over here in piecing to see if any veterans had advice.
You could check out the first post of my first thread for the original summary (see signature).
Short version: Fairly standard WAW, bomb Aug 1 (four months). There is no OM to my knowledge and I believe my wife on this. She did have a couple minor EA's around 6 & 18 months pre-bomb.
It's more of a case where she thought she lived in my shadow (stay at home mom, I was a successful businessman serving on several high-profile community boards, etc...). She had low self-esteem and felt she would always be a failure compared to me. So her bomb letter talked all about how excited she was to be out on her own, independent and 'free'.
Appearently, she built up years of resentment and unhappiness. Of course, as LBS spouse this was a surprise to me and the bomb was totally unexpected.
I found DR book about three weeks post-bomb and stopped my pursuing before too much damage was done. I've always kept my anger in check and have never really had any major slip-ups. I've done a pretty good job of self-improvement. Started anti-depressants which improved my personality. Lost 60 pounds and look great. Lot's of PMA and GAL.
I spent the first couple of months being very supportive (but still trying to avoid R-type pursuing). So lots of help and support with kids, helped her move her stuff to her new appartment, even went over and did stuff like plunging her toilet.
Unfortunately, that course seemed to be a cheeseless tunnel after awhile. She had this fantasy life in her mind where she could be independent when it suited her. But I would be 'best friend forever' and be there to help her when it suited her. She decided she liked this arrangement and restarted the divorce action. (She had filed on the same day she dropped the bomb, but put it on hold right away).
So I decided the support was enabling her to cake eat. So I dropped the rope and went fairly dark. (We have kids, so there's a limit). I still display PMA when she is around, but I've stopped solving her problems. I make her initiate all contact, etc...
This has been a more successful strategy for me. All of a sudden, her life alone got harder. Like many WAS, she's been in emotional turmoil since the beginning. Most of our common friends are aghast that she's walking away from her family and don't support her. The holidays are also taking their toll on her. I've heard Thanksgiving was hard on her. (We spent it apart and I got the kids during the day for dinner). She also developed an Ulcer a few weeks ago and has alot of pain.
So she put the legalities on hold (again) a couple of weeks ago. She said she was 'busy with the holidays and was ill'. Nothing verbally expressed about stopping the divorce to reconcile.
Our priest is also not pleased with her walk-away behavior. I went to get spiritual guidance. He heard the story and unilaterally 'called her in' for a meeting. The priest convinced her to attend Retrouvaille.
I do not know how much coercion went on. But I do know that after she agreed to do it, she did spend about two weeks threatening not to go. Then she went to see the priest again in private. When she came out, she agreed to go and told me to mail the registration fee.
We are seeing the same C, mostly seperately. We have had a couple of joint sessions. I ask her to bring up the first topic and both times she said that she doesn't really have anything big to discuss. I attribute this to my improved DBing behavior over the last few months. I'm acting well enought that she doesn't have anything to complain about. But her long-term resentment is still driving her.
So going into Retrouvaille, she is a bit of a reluctant participant. I do believe she may be harboring some feelings to perhaps reconcile. But she hasn't verbalized them. If she does have these feelings, it's more that she's discovered that splitting the family and living the single life sucks. But she still has anger and resentment towards me. At best, I'm now the lesser of two evils.
Any advice? I have no idea what to expect.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
Doc has it bang on. We just did our weekend 3 weekends ago, and it is intense to say the least. Although my W and I are a LONG way from reconciliation, we now have a safe way and better way of communicating with each other. From a personal standpoint, my emotional growth that started that weekend has served me very well in my DBing efforts and coming to grips with all the possibilities of what my W says she really wants (D). I am no longer anxious, afraid or tormented by the possible outcomes of failure- I can accept them for what they are- out of my control and resting solely with her feelings. Well worth the weekend, and as Doc says- the monday after with a day off.
Just wanted to wish you much luck with your weekend. My H and I did it over a year ago...it will not be an instant cure, but it will give you a wonderful set of tools to communicate with. We have had some more bumps in the road but we always return to what we were taught at Retro to try and work through it. It will be something you can use in so many situations. I also agree with the Dr! If you can take the Monday off work do it. It is a very intense weekend, and you will need sometime to decompress! Make sure that you let us know how it went!
Me - 44 H - 44 M - 19yrs together - 23yrs D16 S8 EA/PA - Bomb Oct20/06 Jan 8/07 Feb 01/07 Jul 15/07 H still @ home Recovered!
Sorry for the delay, had to get on a plane and travel for business. Time for a recap of my personal results.
Wife had been cordial in the days before the event. She had been insisting on driving in separate cars (a four hour drive in winter weather) and staying in separate rooms only a week ago. She agreed to carpool down together right before we left. We had a pleasant drive and stopped to allow her a bit of shopping. On arrival at the hotel, they had reserved two rooms. She asked if they could cancel one room. Told me she was feeling frugal.
Note that this is an ongoing pattern... she performs actions which are positive, but refuses to verbally acknowledge them. For example, when she paused the D legalities the last time, she said it was because she was busy with the holidays and was ill (new ulcer). She would not acknowledge any motive around reconciliation.
The first evening only has a couple of dialog sessions (the notebook swapping process). One of the questions pertained to our feelings about our current relationship. Wife used the word 'refreshed' to describe her feeling.
It's my job to restate her feelings to show I understand. So I said: 'So the separation has given you a break from me, so you feel refreshed'. She said that was wrong. She said instead: "I've been shocked at how many radical changes you have made. You are a totally different person and that makes me feel like our relationship has been refreshed". (The quote is paraphrased, but she did use the specific terms "refreshed", "shocked" and "radical").
As a Divorce Buster, that answer was obviously gratifying. It was like a one sentence proof that our DB strategies do work! Pretty soon it was lights out for the night. As we lay in our separate beds, I just voiced a simple "good night". I received back a "good night" response in a caring tone.
The next morning it quickly became apparent that many of the couples had become closer. There was more touching and hand holding... but nothing from wife. She wasn't cold... She just wouldn't initiate things.
I'm still trying to understand the forces at work here. Some days I think she wants me to 'chase' her in some attempt to feel better about herself. But it doesn't really come off that way. It's hard to describe, but it feels more like she is suffering from emotional trauma similar to how a rape victim might feel... it's like she wants to restore intimacy, but doesn't quite know how and is perhaps afraid to initiate herself.
So at one point I touched her shoulder when I brushed by her in the room. She didn't bristle. We were talking a few minutes later and I said something about not knowing what she was comfortable with. She said: "Well, you just touched me and I didn't complain" in a fairly neutral but slightly caring voice.
The second half of the day stayed positive, but there wasn't much further improvement. Things were hampered by wife's health. It was apparent that intense R stuff was causing her a great deal of emotional turmoil. Her ulcer started acting up and she got a bad headache as well. She needed to skip the last session of the day and stay in the room... just too much emotional overload for her.
However, when I returned to the room she did want to have one last conversation. She asked me if I understood that she didn't know the new techguy. He's radically different; what if she didn't like the new him? I asked her if any of my changes were negative. She said not, except that I'm sometimes annoyingly positive. But she needed to get to know me. Of course, I let her know I had all the time in the world.
So it's lights-out. We're lying in our separate beds and we exchange 'good nights'. Again cordial. Then after about two minutes, she asks if I would be willing to lay with her in a very hesitant voice.
Now, the bed thing was very one sided. She put her back to me and I gently spooned her. Caressed her back, etc... She did nothing in return and asked me if that was OK. I reassured her that she had done more than enough by having the courage to invite me over.
Honestly, Sunday was a bit of backsliding. It disappointed me at the time, as Friday and Saturday were so incredibly productive. But in hindsight, I've decided that it was probably just a case of WAS having some retreating after positive developments.
Things didn't go really badly. I tried to hold her hand at one point on Sunday and it just ended up being kind of awkward. It was subtly clear that she wasn't emotionally up for any more progress.
The last question at Retrouvaille is an open-ended question about your dreams for the future. This presented a bit of a conundrum for me. We aren't supposed to pursue... but heck, we aren't even supposed to initiate R-talks at all and that's all we did the whole weekend! So I decided to go ahead and write about my dreams for a new relationship with wife and a happy family.
Wife read my text and weeped uncontrollably. But there was an aspect of the tears which were sad. Kind of came off like "that's a beautiful vision, but it's impossible'.
Wife's letter back to me was much more reserved. She did say that 'she wanted me in her life in some form'. But she also acknowledged how much she enjoyed living alone and being independent. I was a bit demoralized by that... it took all my DB detachment to avoid a meltdown. But I did survive the moment.
We did talk about things a bit and the summary is that wife just doesn't have romantic feelings for me yet. She said she enjoyed me holding her in bed, but just doesn't feel any spark to reciprocate. And her MLC is still too strong.
In summary:
If I had written this post on Sunday night, it would have had a disappointing tone. Things went so well on Friday and Saturday, but then kind of backslid on Sunday. It was really hard during our last group meeting to see the tenderness from other couples. I was jealous that we didn't reach that level.
But, in hindsight, I've regained a much more positive view of the weekend. I thought about the blessing I got just to have one night caressing my wife. I thought about all my friends here like Beth and COG who would probably trade anything for that opportunity with their spouses. And then I felt ashamed for my disappointment. I know that God gave me a very special moment.
My thread, Carpe Diem #4 Orig Thread: Carpe Diem #1
I am glad things went as well as they did for you...everyone has there own outcome for the weekend, and any movement forward is a good thing. Are you going to be going to the post sessions? they will also help a great deal, you must continue with this journey! You have opened the lines of communication in a good way now, and have a wonderful tool, use it often! My H and I went over a year ago, and we still go back to the dialoguing, it does help to keep a connection there. Let us know how you are doing!
Me - 44 H - 44 M - 19yrs together - 23yrs D16 S8 EA/PA - Bomb Oct20/06 Jan 8/07 Feb 01/07 Jul 15/07 H still @ home Recovered!
