Old thread was locked, not sure why, but there it was, so........ UPDATE>> NADA............. lol
Still haven't heard from hubby by means of a letter. Oh, he has called, but always generic and I do the talking. IF there isn't a letter by the end of this month then I know it's slowly over. As we will fall into the same routines as we did. Have sex a few times, then go 2 years or more because, " I GET OVER IT " HA!
I am trying to be patient here, he's only been gone a week, but I was hoping for some kind of real talk over the phone. I know this is VERY hard for him, so I'll wait it out.
Diane, next time he calls, don't talk. Wait for him to speak. Say Hi, how the kids are, briefly. Ask how he is, then wait. That's how detectives get people to talk. People get uncomfortable w/silence & start saying stuff. As with the nighttime surprise, he might be ready to talk a little, but needs the opportunity to be wide open.
Finished the Sex on the Brain book over the weekend. There's a small section on emotional trauma. This Dr. is a therapist who does SPECT brain scans often and discovers interesting stuff. Some of which is scary if you happen to smoke or drink, but that's another story. Anyway, he says there are specific scan patterns associated with emotional trauma. Anxiety & depression then make conecting with others difficult and last thru life. Also, a lot forget they've had trauma even w/careful questioning. Treating the trauma can rebalance the brain.
If you're thinking the same thing I am at this point, the refusal to get counseling, it seems more hopeless, however, it is explanatory in a way. Exposure to domestic violence at an early age also causes negative behavior later in life.
There was other infomation about how one's first sexual experience affects later feelings & performance. As early as age 2!! even tho you can't remember it. Masters & Johnson also wrote about that in the late 60's. My ex talked about the lack of sex education he had & being Catholic was scolded for masturbating as a little boy. At 12 or 13, he & a pal used to go up in the attic where old magazines were piled up. Marilyn Monroe on the cover of Life Magazine w/cleavage of course!! They'd masturbate & race to see who came first. Of course he had PE. No way to fix it since he thought M&J were writing dirty books & would never have tried.(??????)
H's older bro, who could be pretty crude sometimes, told his "funny" story about when he was 14, taking girls home & showing them his little brother's penis hoping to get them interested in sex. The little bro was my H, age 2. I've always thought it probably included touching & erection & went on a lot. He's the bro who was a hound. With the whispering & giggling, it must have created quite an impression, overall sneakiness, embarrassment, invasion??
The CPAP is sitting on the dining rm table, ready to go back. A different respiratory therapist is coming Mon. to see if adjustments will help. There's a blog/forum on the sleep apnea site & lots of people have trouble at first. Loss of libido is one side effect of sleep apnea. Found out why: the body generates testosterone during sleep. If you don't get a full night's sleep, guess what?! Blood tests for T are done in a.m. cuz that's when level is highest. OOOKAAAYYY, what is it the rest of the day? In the evening? Also, if sleep patterns are broken up, the usual nighttime erections don't happen & those are what keep the plumbing in good shape. He's not happy about adjusting & trying again. I can give him all the info about heart attacks, strokes, depression, irritability, accidents, low T and it won't make a difference. He's like, oh well so that's if for his life cuz he can't tolerate the mask. Anything tough & he acts like a quitter. I haven't quit on him even tho his problems totally screw up my life, but he doesn't see it that way. He seems to be fine w/restricted enjoyment. I'd think he'd at least want to not be depressed & negative all the time. Don't know what his excuse has been all these years, but now it's ok to be tired cuz he's "old" (soo what does that make me?). Considering the number of older guys I've seen working out at my fitness centers & wanting to have good quality of life - its pretty hard to take. Cripes, we had a 62 yr old guy who went back packing in Nepal! and a 68 yr old who did Ride Wisconsin every year & that's 7-800 miles on a bicycle! I guess its not your age, but HOW you age.
I was pretty happy talking to the other resp. therapist & reading stuff on the apnea blog. He rained on that parade. He'll never go on the blog either. If he's in the dark, just gripe about it, don't turn on the light. S T U B B O R N! Any ideas how to convince him to keep tryng, please tell me. He was snoring away again last night.
Off to ride my critter. Practice, practice, practice
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
I have done the, " silence " thing on the phone when he's called before. In all honesty I did it out of spite at the time. Thinking to myself, " If that guy can't even think of something to say, wtf! " Never worked, there would be silence until he said goodbye. Once he even fell asleep. lol Arghhh!!!!!!!!! But, I may try now as things are suppose to be moving in a different direction.
I did leave a message on his phone yesterday. I told him that seeing as I probably can not write him, I would occasionally leave voice mails. So I left a comment about how I felt this wouldn't be able to move forward if he always thought I was lying. His saying he doesn't remember is fine, but then to add it didn't happen, is not acceptable to me. I didn't say that though.... lol Just said that we have to have a mutual trust between us if we hope to make it etc. I told him he could eventually touch on that in one of his letters if he wanted. That was the tiny hint that I'm still waiting for a letter.
I have to say, I feel like Im in grade school here having to do it this way. It's hard not to get mad and call him and say > GROW UP! I really find this nuts that I am having to wait for a letter to talk to my husband. I will though, for the time being. (( ackkk cough cough )) lol
That is horrible what happened to your H Jayce! Does he talk about it? I am assuming no, and if he has, its > it was then, I am fine now. Horrible how people can be toward one another.
As for the CPAP, is there anything that they can do that is different. Diff mask maybe? It's too bad he didn't have it long enough to get the rewards out of it, then maybe he would have stuck it out. I'm not sure what you can do at this point, cause he seems pretty adamant to NOT want to like it. Hopefully mon they will have something better for him.
Went to the mailbox......... no letter. I won't say I'm not disappointed. I was hoping for something by now. Feel a bit defeated and like Im doing what I did all those years ago........ waiting for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A BIG OLD NOTHING! I know it's early, and I should be more patient, but as Cinco said in his thread, we've waited for so long, that we want some kind of change\effort YESTERDAY!
Hi, how's the weather? Last day of "Indian Summer" here-that's when we get sunny, warm days after the first frost. Got almost all my yard work done. Ran outta gas. LOL. Actually, have stomach ache. Wonder what I ate
H doesn't remember anything about his bro's messing w/him. He does recall the Thanksgiving fight that led to his folks splitting up. Former sis in law told me the parents separated & got back together more than once. Also, they both were unfaithful. But who really knows? Chaotic childood either way.
His home town was small other than summer tourists, so people knew relatives of others, were all connected in past genenrations. Cousins' father (H's mom's sister's H) told them that his father said their gramma shot grampa to death around 1920. Speculation is that since it wasn't uncommon for H's to smack their wives around, for her to do that, he must have been "messing with the girls" meaning my H's mom & 2 sisters. H's younger bro did some social work way back. He asked her about it...she was 6 & didn't see the shot, but saw the reflection of the muzzle flash on the wall, so she was in the room at the time!! He asked her if her father molested her & she got mad, said, "My father LOVED me!" and clammed up. He said that's what molested kids say. Older bro had passed by then, so no idea what he knew.
Its probably why when she'd call one of the family toddlers over to her & they didn't come, she'd say, "Gramma won't love you if you don't come over here" in a singsong voice. She tried to play my H & his bro off against each other when she was thinking about where to live after her 2nd H died. She'd tell my H how his bro was begging her to come to where he lived & yadda, yadda, yadda. She'd tell his bro that my H was saying the same things. They'd talk & share how she complained the whole time she visited both of them & joke about "better you than me." A few yrs ago her younger sis did the same exact thing with her 2 sons! They didn't learn that stuff from gramma, she wasn't manipulating & everyone loved her a lot. Best guess, that's another tactic they learned as tiny kids from their bad daddy!
Probably a lot of her behavior/personality was affected by what he dad did to her & sisters. I suppose that guaranteed a dysfunctional childhood for her boys. I mostly hear the older aunts, 2nd cousins, etc at funerals reminiscing about how H & bro stayed w/them while their mom worked. They spent most of their time at gramma's. When H's older bro moved here w/wife & baby, H was 15 & she sent him here for the summer, then tried to get them to keep him! Fear of abandonment & rejection? Jeez!
None of this really explains his LD, however. Especially since both bro's were/are the opposite. It probably does have to do w/his not talking about feelings much. I've shared stories about my folks' families (one great grandpa hanged himself-legend was he died of pneumonia-until cousin got his death cert during her geneaology search) and what I remember of my grandparents, etc. He just doesn't do that. I know he never went to amusement parks, circuses, museums. Didn't get to learn how to have fun.
The Mon. appt will include a different mask to try. He mentioned being hungry all the time. Tired people eat more. Like runners who overtrain craving sugar & other carbs. He'll be totally wiped this weekend. Working till 5 tom'w a.m. & 7 a.m. on Sat. He'll get at most, 6 hrs sleep between shifts. He'll sleep most of Saturday. On the upside, I'll get to sleep both nites w/out snoring waking me up LOL.
He's read thru pg 80 of the book. Long time till he finishes it. Eventually he'll say something about one thing or another, I don't expect him to talk about a lot of it tho. Just hope it helps get him in touch w/his feelings.
Sorry your H hasn't written. Not sure what mine'd do. W/email available, that's probably what I'd get & short ones at that. As always, hang tougn.
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
I haven't written in awhile cause I've been in sorta a funk I guess you could call it.
H has called a few times, and as I said it's plain and generic. Arghh!! He did do something that was out of the ordinary on Sunday. He sent a text that said > " Love you muchly " It was cute I guess. I texted back and said awwwwwwwwww nice. Didn't know what else to say. He's been saying Luv you at the end of conversations which is another thing he had stopped.
What do I gather from this? That he's trying. What do I personally feel.... Almost nada, with a mix of resentment and anger.
It's really hard and I am starting to wonder if I brought all this on for nothing cause I think I just might be to angry to move forward. I've come to realize that the only way I can go anywhere with this is with answers. Answers I'm not sure he can give. It's a sad realization to come too. I'm not even sure that answers I want are fair to him, cause he may not know them.
1. WHY has he forgotten 5 years of me crying and begging him to talk to me, tell me why? 2. WHY does he think things didn't happen just because he doesn't remember them. 3. WHY can't he simply talk to me? 4. WHY am I not worthy of going to a C 5. WHY is it so hard to talk to me
ok............... Just needed to write those down.. lol
Going to the mailbox later. I'm really hoping something is there for me today. We'll see..
bbl Jayce, hope things go well for you today! Let me know.
At some point, Diane, you're probably going to have to write how you are feeling down and send it to him; that is, drop anoher anvil on his head from afar.
He's gone back to the environment where he spends most of his time, is probably the most comfortable, and where old habits of NOT dealing with his marriage and relationship with you come right back -- an old, familiar skin to wear.
Good luck, and I hope I'm wrong!
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Hi, Kiddo. I get it about being in a funk. Me, too.
Have you sent H your list of questions? Mine are more in the line of how he feels about sex in general. Answer: "I don't know". I asked him please think about it months ago. No answers yet. He hasn't read past ch 5 of the "new male sexuality" book since 2 wks ago. Its at the bottom of the list of important stuff along w/having sex. By now he must realize this isn't going away & every time he ignores it, it comes back w/emotional results. The book defines the difference between desire & arousal in ch 15. (He'll get to that one in 2010 at this rate). I asked him about arousal (being "horny") a few weeks ago & he said he never feels that way. I know he did when we were dating. Right now, I'm not sure about any time since. I talked about some sex things we did in the past that were fun, that he got into, but he doesn't recall them. Every conversation makes me feel worse.
He came across sleep shorts in his drawer that I got him 2 summers ago & he's never worn. Asked me why I got them. I said I thought they'd feel good on & I wanted to feel him when he wore them. He said "Why?" & I blurted out "Because I have a SEX drive!" I said, like when a guy gets a woman a silk nightie cuz he wants to touch her when she's wearing it. Silence. Then "Oh, I get what you're saying". Asked him this a.m. if touching a woman turns him on. "Yeah".... I guess he has to think about it & want to first. It'd help if he'd ever talked during sex before, then I'd have some idea about stuff like that. I thought he enjoyed all of that, but I'm not sure anymore.
Today's appt w/respiratory therapist has to be rescheduled. He had annual stress test this a.m. which he didn't write on the calendar, but had the instruction sheet clipped to the back where I didn't see it till last Fri. He forgot it. I asked him to call the lady today to reschedule (take responsiblity) & he said no, the only thing he wants her to do is to "take the thing back". I've had a pretty bad afternoon. Fixing the sleep apnea was my last hope as far as keeping him healthy and having any chance of him ever having a libido again. So that makes any sex we ever have in the future only a charity effort on his part. Heart won't be in it. No desire, no arousal, having to 'make an appointment' for sex and him taking a pill & never thinking the next day about having fun the night before.... never thinking about sex again until after a couple weeks or so it occurs to him to initiate (with no signals) so I won't have another meltdown & spoil his weekend of TV & napping.
Last weekend I made a careful approach Fri nite. He rolled away from me & went to sleep, snoring. I know he felt me touching him. Didn't sleep well. Was bummed all day Sat. so he was peeved & I didn't sleep again Sat. Sun nite, was tired. He'd not touched me or kissed me since Fri aft. Sat on other side of room during TV. I got up around 10, said I was going to shower & go to bed. He followed me & said "Aren't we going to fool around?" I said why would he think that since he hadn't been near me all day & how would I know what he wanted to do. Eventually we did. He took a pill & I figured while he waited the 45 min we could do a lot of foreplay, fun?? He seems to have no clue. I rubbed his back, feet, said nice things about his bod. He did rub my feet a little. Still talked very little. Usually has his eyes closed.
This weekend he worked OT, so not home till 5 a.m. Fri & 6 on Sat. He slept all day & I went to stable. Came home, had supper. He dozed on couch on & off. I didn't expect anything, but nothing last nite either. Tonite he'll ask me why I didn't go work w/my horse. (Cuz I was bawling all afternoon & didn't have the mental energy?)Then he'll have his big glass of wine and either duck the whole thing or initiate & wonder why I'm not turned on & have no idea how to fix it.
You know I'm gonna call her. Gotta give it one more try. I hate it that he's such a quitter. I know if it's something he really wants to do, he'll work on it. When he started racquetball 15 yrs ago, he got a rule book & lessons cuz he hadn't played in 20 yrs. He'd pay for court time to practice his serves & shots 2-3 times a week. Watched videos of pros playing. But no practicing the breathing machine. Nuh uh. Way too hard. Doesn't think adjustments will help, so he won't try.
I really don't want to sleep alone in the other room. I need the hugging, too, but its so hard to sleep w/the noise from the snoring & lying there listening to his breathing stop and thinking about how it is gradually killing him & he evidently doesn't care. When I met him I had kids, a dog, a house, a car, a job. Got married cuz I wanted a playmate & emotional support as in intimacy, sharing feelings, a real life together. Shoulda just got another dog.
me: 66 H:60 2 adult sons 2 grandsons adult daughter deceased 5/05 me:Part time trainer H: plant suprv.
Bagheera, I HAVE decided to write him a lengthy letter. You are right, and I had decided to do so beforehand, but you made me feel better about it. Thank you. I'm not sure I can get it to him, it may sit here until Christmas time, but that's ok. I've waited this long, so whats another month or so. He says hes on board, he told me he'd read the book and write, so he's about to get the FULL MEAL DEAL! I am going to write and ask all these questions I have, vent a little. And in return all I want is a letter in return. I think I am owed that much.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Jayce, ouch!
I feel for you I do. When I read your comment about getting another dog, I laughed. I know it was NOT meant to be a joke, but it was a laugh cry because I know how you feel. When I married H, I came into the marriage with 2 kids. I was ok on my own, and your right, we came into these marriages with the untold rule that there is suppose to be all those things we want and you mentioned. Then POOF.......... it's gone and were left wondering where the hell it went and why, while the other half has a beer and wonders silently to himself, " whats wrong with her. " < My own little added rant there I guess. Arghh, and ughh!!!!
I didn't go to the mail box yet. Gonna wait until later or tomorrow. I'm afraid really. In my heart I know that if I get there and there is nothing, that he is in fact just shrugged it off, or is waiting. I know he's trying in his own way, but it has to be more. I won't settle any longer. Progress has to happen or I am out. ( I think ) lol
I had asked H about the same things you did. I asked him if he ever got horny, he said he did, just rarely, and that it went away. Hmmmmmmmmm But he has also said he doesn't like sex, then he said he did. Who knows, and that's why I have to write this letter. Get the truth out of him for once. I can't do anything if I don't know what I am working with here.
lol 
