Is this worth saving, or am I only fooling myself?

[Dash]

Can someone become too detached?

Yesterday when I saw my W not only did I act like she didn't had no affect on me, I felt it as well.

I went to pick my son up and she met me at the door.

W: Hello.
Me: Hi, where's the baby?
W: He's having breakfast. (Points to dining room)

I went in and gave him a hug and a kiss and he was all giggles and tried sharing his turkey bacon with me.

W: Would you like a cup of coffee or tea or water?
Me: No thanks, I'm good.

She goes on to tell me some things about the baby and what he's done this week since I haven't seen him.

W: I called last night, didn't you get my message? (This was in reference to the email she sent the other day about possibly changing my visit to Sunday)
Me: No, I didn't get home until really late so I didn't bother checking the voice mail.
W: Oh, did you work late?
Me: Not really. (Actually I got home around 11:30, but I did work until 10:00 and had to stop by the grocery for a few things and the drive home is usually 30 minutes if there's no traffic.)
W: I got a new cell phone.
Me: Congrats, I'm sure it will come in handy.
W: Do you want the number?
Me: No, I have your parents' number if I need to get in touch with you.
W:What if there's an emergency?
Me: You're not my emergency contact anymore.
W: Oh.
W: Well maybe you should take the number anyway.
Me: I don't need the number, but thanks.
W: Did you go to your counseling session yesterday?
Me: No, it's not on Fridays, it's Thursdays, but yes, I did go.
W: Okay.
W: Anything new going on in your life?
Me: Lots of stuff.
W: Want to share any of it.
Me: Not really much to share.
W: Oh, okay. (She says that a lot.)

I started getting my son dressed and ready to go.

W: I'm moving furniture today so I won't be able to go with you guys this morning.
Me: That's fine, this is about me having time with him anyway.
W: Well I told you earlier in the week that I would let you know which day would be best for me.
Me: You told me that on Thursday and then apparently didn't call until late Friday night, I'm not going to just sit around and wait for you to see what's convenient for you. Besides, you don't need to go hang out with us. This is our time. (pointing at baby then myself)
W: Oh, okay.

I finished dressing baby then step outside to have a smoke before we go because I know I won't have time for one while he and I are out and about. (No smoking around the baby!!! A rule we made together and she has started breaking and it pisses me off!)

She follows me outside while baby is watching Pokoyo on television.

She starts making small talk about the neighbors' cats. I just look at her without saying anything. She gets a text message and walks away to reply. Somehow I just didn't care.

W: I was messaging my sister.
Me: Okay. Not sure why you felt the need to tell me, but okay.

I finish my smoke and gather up the baby and his things. We are off to have a good day playing at an indoor playground thanks to the rain.

Baby and I spent about three hours and 20 minutes at the indoor playground (I have to get into better shape, that kid wore me down) and then had lunch. No sooner had I pulled out of the lot from where we had lunch, he was out cold. lol

It was so cute the way he looked. He had his little ball cap pulled down over his eyes and he was leaning back like a little old man. I just drove around for the next little while letting him sleep.

TM from W: Where are you guys? How's it going? How's baby? Are you coming back soon?

TM reply from me: It's going fine, baby is fine, we'll be there around 4:30 or 5:00.

I didn't tell her where we were because frankly I wasn't sure, but I didn't want to tell her that either. I knew how to get back from to her parents' house from there, but I wasn't sure where "there" was.

Baby slept for over an hour riding in the car. He woke up smiling, which is always a good sign. I asked him if he it was a good nap and he said something in baby gibberish that I didn't quite understand. He tries, and he can be emphatic at times when he's "speaking". I miss him more than anything. That's the part that really breaks my heart.

At any rate, I took him back to W's parents' house and she was there to meet us in the driveway. I took baby out of the car and got his other stuff she had sent along (my diaper bag wasn't properly stocked apparently) and started taking him upstairs, walking right past her.

W: I guess you don't need any help.
Me: No thanks, I've got it.

We get upstairs (her parent's house is weird, their front door is upstairs on the side of the house. There is no entrance from the ground.) and I put the baby down and his stuff. I take his coat off and give him a big hug and a kiss. I asked him if he had a good time today and he smiled really big.

I took that as a good thing.

Me: I need a smoke, I haven't had one since before he and I left this morning.
W: Okay, I'll join you. (Son was inside playing with grandpa.)
W: Wow, you've lost even more weight since last week. You look really good.
Me: Thanks.

I smoke my cigarette and get ready to leave.(I don't smoke in my car either, cuts down on the resell value. I also don't smoke in my house, even though the owner smokes and said it wouldn't be a problem for him. I don't even know why I bother to smoke.)

Me: So next week instead of here I need to pick him up at your apartment?
W: Yeah, I should have all my stuff in by then.
Me: Okay.
W: That will make it much easier too, because then you can plan overnight trips and stay the weekend with us.
Me: I think I should stick to the hotel idea for now. (I told her a couple of weeks ago that I wanted to start spending more time with him and possibly driving up on Friday evening and getting a hotel for Friday and Saturday night and having him spend the night with me. Not the best situation, but he and I need that extra time together I think and she needs to see what I go through by not seeing him for a couple of days.)

W: Well the access code is (and she rattles off some numbers).
Me: I'll just ring the buzzer and you can let me in, I don't need the access code.
W: Oh, okay.
Me: Okay little buddy, it's time for dad to get movin'.

He runs over to me and gives me a big hug. I kissed him on the forehead and hugged him back. I could feel the hurt and anger moving inside me. I hate having to leave him.

W: Call me or email me when you get home.

I say nothing.

W: Have a safe drive.
M: Thanks, I will.

And I left.

I wasn't as cold or angry as this sounds. I was matter of fact on a few things and let her know my frustration about how she expects me to wait for her to decide when I get to spend time with my son, but all in all, I was aloof.

I didn't asked her about how the job search was going, I didn't ask her about how she was doing. I didn't ask her anything at all about her life. For once, I didn't care.

I found myself thinking on the way home about what I really felt for her. I thought I loved her, but I'm not sure now. I feel somewhat indifferent toward her. Is this a defense mechanism? I honestly didn't care to see her at all yesterday and when we were around each other I found myself thinking of other things that didn't have anything to do with "us".

Maybe the initial shock has worn off and I'm ready to move on with my life. I don't mean find someone else and start the whole process again, but move on in general.

I looked at her and I didn't see that beautiful woman that I fell in love with back then. In fact, I didn't see a beautiful woman at all. I felt no attraction to her.

I think it's funny that she has gained weight. She's only 5 feet tall, and normally weighs about 105, she's now at 120. 15 lbs on a frame that small makes a huge difference.

I do believe she may be in a MLC of sorts. She was talking to her 17 year old niece yesterday about borrowing some of her clothes. The niece is exactly half my W's age at this point. And she wants to wear her clothes. Classic.

I can't help her. Nor do I want to now. I don't hate her, I don't even dislike her. Isn't it sad that I don't even have enough passion for this woman to hate her?

I truly feel indifferent toward her. And that bothers me somewhat.

And my little buddy said two new words yesterday. Box, and phone. First time he had said either. And I got to witness it! That was exciting to me and made the whole seven hour round trip drive worth it.

[Br44]

That is almost the same way things are for me in my sitch now. Only, I see my W for about 5 minutes on Sunday evenings but the convo is much the same.

I think it is more of the acceptance of the situation more than not caring or not loving her.

You may fall back into anger, depression, etc because of future events, but at that moment you accepted your situation.

Keep up the good work on not smoking around your S. Sorry you are so far apart from him.

[Dash]

Thanks Making.

I'm trying to remain positive. I really hope this isn't just a "phase" that I'm going through, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned that it is.

I like this sort of peace that I'm feeling about things. I really don't want to let that go.

[Dash]

One month ago today I first had my suspicion of my W's EA.

It was heart wrenching to say the least, but I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone here about how that felt.

If anyone had told me then that I would be feeling better just a month later, I wouldn't have believed it. It a lot of ways, it was the beginning of my wake up call. The beginning of this journey to fix my life and the hope of fixing my marriage.

I'm still at peace at the moment, but after reading Didi's post this morning and almost being able to feel the love she put into it, I have had a change of heart about trying to repair my own marriage and have decided to once again do exactly that. Not try, but do.

I know what I want, it's just a matter of working out how to get it. It's a matter of setting realistic goals for myself and for my marriage.

[Trying2live]

Dash,
How is your GAL'ing going? This will be a huge help to you as you go through this. Find something fun that maybe you wouldn't normally do. GAL'ing is an investment into you! I also think it's really great for the walkaways to see you living, if that makes sense.

If I have anything to really to say to help it would be these few things.

Spouse is in deep fog, ignore almost all of what they say, its fogbabble. Have hope, but NO EXPECTATIONS. I found this really helpful for myself. If I have preconceived expectations from my spouse then surely i will be getting hurt because they live in the FOG. If you expect anything, at least for now since you are early in this, expect insanity, no normal common sense, selfishness,etc. This should be what you expect because even if you don't that's what your going to get-for now. There is a natural time for this. I have mentioned to getting Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley to everyone I know it's a great companion book to DR. I have implemented GAL'ing by taking salsa lessons and 180 in all areas my H complained about. I highly recommended the SAA book. He also explains in it the addiction aspect of Adultery and also that most of them die a natural death. It's a must have book to go a long with DR, IMHO.

As far as emotions I think your right on track. From my perspective when a person finds out about the adultery the 1st few months they are in shock, there is some emotion but not a whole lot. For myself, I was basically shocked and surviving and could barely feel. IT wasn't until month's 3-5 that the sorrow and reality hit. don't put any weights on yourself on how you should be feeling. Its a roller coaster, just try to take care of yourself and do things you enjoy or you won't make it the long haul. Get a massage or something that cares for you!

Consider getting the SAA book, if you can and are finished reading DR. I think reading as much as you can on Adultery is really helpful. feel free to drop by my thread I don't always go out of mine but I'll try and remember. My thread is Trying2Live-New Post 4.

I do like the detachment in your conversation, keep that up as long as you can do it without Love busting, a technique in the SAA book as well.

[faithrunner]

Dash, whenever you start to feel down, go back and read your post from 11/06 at 2pm. It was clear and very realistic. I say that b/c as I was reading back through your post to familiarize myself, I saw a post that I had written and it was a revelation to me today! I have moments of clarity, like that one, and I needed to go back and remember what I wrote on these posts sometimes.

That being said, I have lots of moments when I don't feel tugged in H's direction, and it's nice because I use those times to really exude confidence. It has been a year for me and I feel more peaceful and happy moments now, and I never thought I would get to this place. I was telling my best friend the other night that I feel so blessed and lucky in my life, in spite of whatever adversity is going on btw me and H. It was an amazing feeling, like an adrenaline rush.

I think you handled your visit with S perfectly. You kept it calm with W, kept all emotion out of it from your side. And look what happened, she followed you around everywhere! Wanted to smoke with you, plan overnights at her place, etc. If you can continue to detach like that and GAL, you will see success for yourself and your W will continue to notice. Then, you can decide how you feel about it. I am finding that H is becoming more giving, calling a little more, emailing, and frankly it is scaring me to death. I went through the piecing stage once, and it is so much more frightening than this!

I think you are doing great I hope you have a good day, and you are a great dad.

[Dash]

T2L,

Thanks for stopping by.

Dash,
How is your GAL'ing going? This will be a huge help to you as you go through this. Find something fun that maybe you wouldn't normally do. GAL'ing is an investment into you! I also think it's really great for the walkaways to see you living, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. I don't want her to see that I'm hurt, or weak. I'm acting as if she's done me a huge favor, and in a lot of ways she has.

As for my GAL'ing, I've joined a gym (I used to work out a lot before she and I met) and I've started making plans with friends (what few I have) for going out to movies and to eat. Things of that nature. I also thought of taking up piano or guitar again. I used to play both, but they were dropped somewhere along the way.
If I have anything to really to say to help it would be these few things.

Spouse is in deep fog, ignore almost all of what they say, its fogbabble. Have hope, but NO EXPECTATIONS. I found this really helpful for myself. If I have preconceived expectations from my spouse then surely i will be getting hurt because they live in the FOG. If you expect anything, at least for now since you are early in this, expect insanity, no normal common sense, selfishness,etc. This should be what you expect because even if you don't that's what your going to get-for now. There is a natural time for this. I have mentioned to getting Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley to everyone I know it's a great companion book to DR. I have implemented GAL'ing by taking salsa lessons and 180 in all areas my H complained about.

I am having trouble with the 180's because she hasn't really said anything to me about what I should have done or could have done differently. I know I was emotionally removed from her for the past year and half or so, but to do a 180 on that wouldn't make sense right now.

I suppose not talking about the R or M and not asking her questions about her life, the future, or us amounts to a 180 in a lot of ways. But I'm still sort of stuck on this one. Especially not knowing what she expects from me. Nor do I have any expectations of her. My intentions are to put my life back together first and foremost, and hopefully put my family back together. As far as expecting anything from her, I only expect her to be who she is, but I am hopeful that will change as well.

I highly recommended the SAA book. He also explains in it the addiction aspect of Adultery and also that most of them die a natural death. It's a must have book to go a long with DR, IMHO.

I'm really hoping this is true. I know she's going through a bit of withdrawal since she doesn't have the time now to speak to him as often. She's been staying with her parents and her dad has been home everyday that she's been there because he's ill and can't work at the moment. So no downloading "Second Life" and no hours on end chatting with him. I'm hoping this will help lead to it's demise.

I've read about that book on several threads, yours included. I plan on picking it up along with the "Five Languages of Love".

As far as emotions I think your right on track. From my perspective when a person finds out about the adultery the 1st few months they are in shock, there is some emotion but not a whole lot. For myself, I was basically shocked and surviving and could barely feel. IT wasn't until month's 3-5 that the sorrow and reality hit. don't put any weights on yourself on how you should be feeling. Its a roller coaster, just try to take care of yourself and do things you enjoy or you won't make it the long haul. Get a massage or something that cares for you!

Consider getting the SAA book, if you can and are finished reading DR. I think reading as much as you can on Adultery is really helpful. feel free to drop by my thread I don't always go out of mine but I'll try and remember. My thread is Trying2Live-New Post 4.

I do like the detachment in your conversation, keep that up as long as you can do it without Love busting, a technique in the SAA book as well.

I think I'm over the initial shock. Reading helps me understand things better. I usually recover pretty quickly from most things. This has actually taken me longer to come to grips with than I ever imagined it could. I'm not over it by any stretch, I still have up and down moments, but it's sank in and I realize it is what it is. Dwelling on it and them only hurts me. I'm tired of being hurt.

I'll have to look up the "Love Busting" thing because I'm not familiar with it. I sort of feel like I need to bide my time until her EA runs it's course before I really do anything else other than what I did last week. Good idea?

Then again, knowing my W she could be making plans to meet with him, if that happens, I'll be done for sure because I don't think I could ever look at her again and not see her with him.

Dash

[Trying2live]

The love busting thing is on the Surviving An Affair book so if you get it you 'll find it there.

As far as not know what to 180 on the SAA book may help. At the end of the book is a questionnaire. You will take this test at the end of the book as IF you are HER taking it. This will show you her emotional needs. Every human has a range of 10 emotional needs. The top 5 are the most important. By identifying your spouses top 5 you may be able to see where there may have been some gaps. Now I do not say that as if this is your fault. IT's not, they could have done things differently if they wanted to.

I really think this book may benefit you. Especially how your wife chases you down to talk to you. Really consider getting the book, you may be able to identify the 180's.

Do you know for sure that the affair is ongoing? Have you exposed the affair to bust up the fantasy world? A lot of this is explained in SAA.

Hey you should totally go take the music lessons. Gym stuff is to keep you healthy and strong but the music thing will bring you some joy, i say go for it!

I understand how you feel about her meeting him. Mine had EA/PA and then moved in and lives with her but yet i still am fighting. Each of us know how much we can stand and if you can't that's not a big deal. The fact you offered reconciling is great.
I really think you can benefit from the book. could this OM have been meeting her emotional needs? I'd rather you do that and with precision since you've identified them.

[Dash]

No, I don't know if the EA is on going, but I suspect it is only with much less contact. Of course she did get a new cell phone, so it could be she's talking to him all night long now.

I will go pick up the book tonight, apparently my local Borders store has it.

I don't know that I would say she chases me down to talk, I mean when she first left she would call me every night and we would talk, then I asked her to stop and she did. She doesn't email me or send me text messages so I really wouldn't call that chasing me down. When she does want to "talk" to me there's no substance to it. Often times she tells me things that my son has done that I was actually there to see, so she forgets I was even there when it happened.

I've asked others about exposing the affair and was told it was probably not a good idea. I wouldn't know even how to expose it or to whom. Her parents wouldn't care, I know one of her sisters knows about it and I'm fairly certain the other one has known about it since the beginning. Who and how would I expose it? I honestly don't believe anyone would care. I think her mother probably knows as well. But then again, to them I probably look like the bad guy.

I actually tried to talk to her dad about it and his answer to me was, "I'm not going to get into it because I honestly don't give a damn. All I know is my daughter wanted to come home for awhile." I said, "Awhile? She has her own apartment." I got no response to that.

I suppose I could always create a webpage and post it all over the internet, but that just seems vindictive.

I did do things in our marriage that I'm not proud of and things I didn't even realize I was doing. You're right, she had a choice and so did I. At least I've began to recognize my short comings as a spouse, I'm not sure she ever will.

Thanks again for checking in T2L. I really do appreciate it more than you can know. It helps a lot just having someone to discuss it with that can identify with me on these things.

[Dash]

Hi Faith,

Sorry I somehow missed your post earlier when I was looking through the thread.

What you say is very true. I have noticed that when I'm feeling down or missing her, reading some of the things I've written and others here have written, really does help. It gives me strength.

I still feel at peace. I think a big part of this was in letting go of expectations. The only person I can truly expect anything of is me. She will do what she has in her heart and mind to do. Nothing I can do to change that.

I have thought about what I would say if she suddenly decided she wanted things to work between us. Each time I see myself telling her that I don't think it can. Am I psyching myself up for this? Or is it just my mind's way of dealing with the loss and accepting it? Giving me back control.

I've often read that the human mind cannot differentiate between what is real and what is imagined. Perhaps there in lies my answer.

Thank you for your encouraging words, I really do appreciate them.

Dash