Two WAS's- is it really meant to be or walk away?

[Loving_Life]

Hi all,

I'm here for advice and support- I'm particularly interested in feedback from the men in this forum, as I am trying to understand my H/stbx, and determine whether this is worth it.

I first picked up DB/DR about 4 years ago during a previous S with my stbx- M 12 yrs. I successfully made it through piecing our M after a 5 month S and we were doing ok for awhile, but things started to get worse again earlier this year. I admit, I stopped trying and gave up. He stopped trying and gave up. We fought a lot and we both felt miserable. Neither of us ever want to feel this way again. The exact same pattern led us to our first S four years ago. He now feels we are in a destructive/toxic pattern with each other and we need to walk away. He also feels he 'never' wants an R again, he's meant to walk alone in life and will only be fulfilled by his business (he just started a new business). We were in an unbalanced pattern- I was paying for all the bills and doing all the chores and he felt like he couldn't provide for me and I didn't need/want him. We weren't doing much together, we both struggled with depression. Then, resentments built up over this and he closed me off, and I reacted and closed him off. I was giving too much in our M and I needed to step back and receive and let him feel like he was providing. Maybe there is more that was going wrong, but give/take was a major issue.

Three months ago, after many fights and us both saying we wanted a D, I filed for the temporary order and then moved out of state to stay with my family. We didn't talk much for three months- He emailed me some about bills. Recently, an old mutual friend died and he left me a message about it. I called him back, he was suprised I was even talking to him and we had the most passionate conversation ever for about 2 hours. We were flirting, complimenting each other, said we missed each other and wanted to see each other again. It felt great. At the end of the conversation, he started to indicate he wasn't sure and he said he needed to think about things and would call me back. Two days later, he called me back saying he didn't think it was a good idea anymore and fell back on all his ideas about why it's better we're apart. He can tell I'm happy in my 'new life' and even flirted a bit about whether any men were "making eyes at me" I tried to be vague, but I could have ramped it up more. I told him I agreed and understood, but that I was open to the possibility in the future if we were both in a better place emotionally. I did backslide and cry a bit at points in the conversation, and I definitely talked too long (1-1/2 hr conversation), which I know I should not have done. I told him I could no longer talk to him if we went ahead and got the D. That scared him (he wants to be friends) and he said he'd call back again, he wasn't making a final decisions yet. Yesterday he called and left a voicemail. I have not returned the call yet.

It's up to me when the D progresses. He doesn't have a lawyer at all. I'm the one who has the lawyer and can tell her to go ahead or hold off. My question is - is this worth it for me? He thinks he doesn't even want any woman, he thinks it's a waste of his time. He also thinks that I am kidding myself that I could be happy with him since he does not want to give anything to me.

Does anyone think there is hope for this R?

[Loving_Life]

A few more thoughts...

I think I'm especially confused because with distance I realize that there were serious issues that need to be resolved in order for our R to work in the future. We had been stuck in a bad pattern that was repeating over and over. I'm not sure that he will be able to give or care about me again. He has been depressed off and on for a long time. He also is the type of person who wants to be in control of everything, has little patience and flexibility. Maybe this is a person who can't be a partner right now? He is telling me he doesn't want any kind of relationship with anyone right now. I think he's also thought that my emotions were too intense for him to handle in the past. (I am a passionate person).

I also realize that I may be reacting to the pain, loss and loneliness and that is why I am still considering this R. In my "new life" I am getting out, having fun, and meeting new people. I have the feeling of loving life again. I know I am having a fun time without him and it has been showing through some. But, when I heard him talk about his changes and that he missed me and was excited about me- I got hopeful again.

So, I am now keeping the door open a crack and he knows it. Is this the position I want to be in? Should I be letting him know he may lose me instead? Obviously, I don't want to come on too strong, too fast and I think I may have done that in our recent calls.

I also am not sure about my next step. I know that I should not call him at all. If he calls again, should I just cut it short, flirt, act like I'm having fun and just tell him I think he's right, I'm not sure about our R either? What if he presses me about the D paperwork- if I say I've asked my lawyer to temporarily hold off b/c I still have some things to think about does that seem like I'm clinging to our R? Or does that sound strong DB wise?

He seems to want to have these long R talks (which he has rarely wanted to do in the past) He wants to think about it all logically and come to a quick decision about yes or no. I sense he wants to be in control of the situation- The R talks without leading to a fight is a huge 180. I used to cry or get angry and he felt like he could never express his true feelings to me. I cried a little in our recent talks, but then I stopped. I did not get angry at all. I let him talk for 1-1/2 hrs about his feelings. But should I let him be talking about R at all? Need advice about my next move.....

[Trixi]

Hey Loving_Life,
thanks for stopping by my thread.
My recommendation is that you invest in some DB coaching sessions with Jody.
She offers a very good perspective. What she told me is that my first step is to just stop all negative interactions. The next step is friendship.
She is VERY good at asking you questions and showing you the sitch from a different perspective.
For instance, she asked how we did with negotiating with our financing. There were several times my H got stuff either behind my back or directly against what I said. As it turned out, his purchases did not make us destitute, but that was my concern at the time. Jody rephrased it like this "So, your H would probably say you weren't generous financially." And when she said it like that, it actually made sense that he might have feel that way.

[Loving_Life]

Thanks Trixi! Ok- so some good initial movement is happening in my sitch. I decided to simultaneously move on w/ my great new life (emphasis on exciting and great) and at the same time do a little DB and hold off on the final D paperwork for now.

Had an excellent convo tonight w. sbtx- He's called me twice in the last 3 days which I didn't answer, so I called him back for 10 minutes tonight. He answers the phone right away. (Yes, now he's calling me on a Sat night). I called him on the way to a friend's house so I didn't have a lot of time to talk and could cut off the conversation. I pulled a 180, acted like I agreed w. him that I never wanted our old R back, I'm having a great time right now, I don't have much time to talk to him etc. He started telling me all these details about his life currently and wanted to talk to me again tomorrow. I'm gone all day tomorrow, don't have time and so I said email me if you want. I casually mentioned that I told a new friend about him as "some guy I know from my old state" that has started a successful business and I'm proud of him. He actually said to me, "You mean you didn't tell him you were married?!" First time the M word has come up in any of our conversations since May.

[Trixi]

He started telling me all these details about his life currently and wanted to talk to me again tomorrow. I'm gone all day tomorrow, don't have time and so I said email me if you want. I casually mentioned that I told a new friend about him as "some guy I know from my old state" that has started a successful business and I'm proud of him. He actually said to me, "You mean you didn't tell him you were married?!" First time the M word has come up in any of our conversations since May.

Hmmm...very interesting and excellent!!!
I will watch with baited breath. Shoot, 8 posts on the board and you are already kicking butt!

[Loving_Life]

Well, now my sitch is kind of up and down... Unfortunately, my stbx is a moody man (possible bi-polar). He's definitely reacting to my DB and my changes. Tonight he got angry at me (which was often typical in our M) and is trying to draw me back into the negative pattern of our old R where he'd criticize me and I'd react. Instead I stayed calm and friendly during the entire call.

He has called me 5 times in the last week and a half- which is huge. I've talked to him 2 out of those 5 times, which I know is encouraging him to call more. Most recently he wants to talk about bills, but it's not anything that we need to talk about that long for so I know he's making excuses to call me. Tonight he got mad at me b/c I said I couldn't talk long and that he should email me his bill proposal. Then he said he wants to call me again on Wed (he's putting it in his calendar), when can he call me so that I can talk longer- so I gave him a time. I'm going to keep up the DB. So far, he's not admitting that he wants a relationship, but he's sure calling a lot and wanting to talk a lot!

[Virtually_Handsome]

((((((L_L))))))

Thanks for visiting my thread!

(Just so you know, I'm not terribly vain, or incredibly handsome! One of the moderators had a little fun a couple of months ago, and changed my name for me.)

Anyway, it seems to me that carrying on with DB is working, so I would keep it up! This being the second separation is interesting, is he acting the same this time? Do you have any suspicions of an affair? Also, have you looked at the MLC section of the board?

I'll post a link that might be interesting, or at least amusing, once I find it.....

[Virtually_Handsome]

Here we go.....

Interesting Stuff

[Loving_Life]

VH- Thanks for the MLC tip, I guess I had thought my stbx was a little young? But maybe not- reason c. in MLC for dummies post is exactly one thing he told me! Oh wow- maybe I should be posting there too.....hmmmm.

From the MLC forum:
c) We got married too young. I never knew anything besides you.

[Loving_Life]

Tonight stbx called just like he said he would to talk about bills (for our final settlement). The call went prettty decent. I was calm, focused on bills, flirted just a tiny bit, but primarily 'acted as if'. I ended the call after 1/2 hr- said 'I don't think we have much more to talk about then- I've got to go'(in a friendly way) He said well, should we talk again in a few days? I said email me. At one point he made a comment about how it felt good to no longer feel guilty or feel responsible for another person. I said 'forgive, move on, and then have fun! That's what I'm doing!' (In a previous call, he said he always felt guilty he could never give what he thought I deserved to the M- I told him that's ok- I didn't ever mean to make you feel that way. He said that he felt that way due his own expectations, that it didn't have to do w. me)His primary reason for wanting the D is still 'He doesn't want an R with anyone- he feels an R takes too much away from his time for his business. He needs to choose between having an R and having his business. He may never want an R again in his life. He claims there are no women he's interested in. He even turns down invites to the strip club b/c it's a waste of his time and money. He tells his guy friends to bring over a movie instead. (Yes he's depressed and having emotional issues- he's shutting down, putting up a wall etc.) He admitted that he prioritizes his business b/c it can never hurt him in a recent convo too. I apologized for ever hurting him- He said that he doesn't blame me anymore, that it's not about me.

Question for the guys, is there any chance left for me with a guy who is feeling this way?

Anyway, back to tonight's call at one point he made some slightly teasing comment about how I was an old lady and I said 'well I'm a hot old lady!' He said he was tired tonight- but he was nice throughout the call. He was glad we 'were able to talk about things w. each other still' but he wants to move on with the D without delays and was asking ?'s about when things will happen. When will he receive the proposed settlement, when would a final hearing be? I told him I'd check w. my lawyer on that- he'll be notified.

Well, my M may be over. And I am feeling ok. Caring for another person sometimes means it's best to let them go. If it was meant to be, he will come back toward me- if not then there is someone better out there for me. I will continue to DB- but I need to decide whether to tell my lawyer to go ahead. One thing my lawyer mentioned is that there could be a "Status Check" hearing if we hold off too long. Then an explanation would have to be made to the court as to why the D wasn't progressing. Stbx would not be on board with this. Has anyone else dealt w. this? I've kind of been feeling anxious lately and if I can successfully let this go, I may feel calmer again- I don't know. I feel more like I can 'move on' if he's not in my life. That's a big reason why I decided to move away right away when we separated again. I literally moved 2,000 miles away and to a better city where I'm having fun and meeting tons of new people!

I'm going dark again. Possibly I will DB through a couple emails, but I think I need to pretty much end all contact. I told him I wasn't interested in being 'friends' if we get a D. The only time he has shown interest is when I am unavailable for long periods of time, and he may not get to the point where he is able to feel good emotionally- about himself or our M. I guess I know that I have put a lot in over the last 12 yrs and even a previous S that I pieced through DB. So, this is my LRT time.

If anyone has thoughts for me, please feel free to share! I definitely would like to stick around here for a while, I hope I have some good advice to offer from my previous experience to others.