Hi - My original thread became locked when it got to large so i have to start a new one. This is my original thread'
4 years ago I began a texting type reltionship with my friends husband. The relationship grew and on 2 occasions we slept together which was not only unsuccessful (for him ) but it was not what I needed or wanted from the relationship. My husband consequently discovered a text message and I spent he next 3 years lying about the extent of the affair.
During these years my husband left me, returned and left me again. We had counselling and i realised that the love i needed and thought i was not getting was actually in my husband all the time. I deeply regreted my actions and finally confirmed with him what he believed he already knew and told him the truth. He returned home for 6 weeks and then 3 weeks ago decided to leave again. I am DEVASTATED.
I have done everything possible to get him back. Some days i do not know what to do with myself. My love and need for him is immense. The only thing i have not done is given him real space. I constantly text and call. We were married 23 years and have 3 teenage children. We have so much to look forward to in the future and so much to loose. What can i do now ? Should i of continued to lie to him ? He still cares for me but i am not sure if he loves me now. He asks how can we make special again what we had. I think he has convinced himself that it is over and I know that it will take 2 of us to fix that. How do I convince him that i would never do that again, that I am so deeply sorry and that what we have is worth fighting for? I would love some help and suggestions. I know i am responsible and selfish to of done what I did in the first place. No one else knows of the extent of the affair even my friend.
I had heaps of great help. Hoping it still continues:
SPM - Hope your read my last response to you on the old thread and things are still ok with you.
My day of flirting but not coming on was not very successful. Flirting went well, he was interested but not reacting. Then he made a comment about did I dress nice and wear sexy underwear for OM. I denied this as I have done 1000 times before. My EA did not become PA until final month and only on 2 occasions. I did dress better and took an interest in myself during the whole A but it was because I felt good, loved and someone was paying attention. It was not because I was trying to get him into bed.
I said to H that today I dressed nice for him!
Anyway H stopped the conversation by saying abruptly " enough of the conversation "
I went home and took D16 out. He rang 6 times to tell me something, none of which I got (as I was out and left cell at home ). Once he got hold of me he was in a great mood as one of our assets went unconditional on the lease freeing H up financially. Great news for him.
Later that night he dropped in as delivering S20 car off. As soon as I heard him arrive I went straight into the bath. Out of the way. He came into the bathroom to talk - something he has not done for years. Was very up beat. Made comment that he had not entered the bathroom in a long time. He left after a while.
This morning he text to see if I was awake and could he drop something in at home. I said fine but just leave it in the letterbox. Very interesting that he wanted to come up to house. Baby steps maybe but I will not get my hopes up. In fact gives me strength to do a bit more Dbing.
I was thinking that i would be okay on my own as long as he was friendly and happy . Is that telling about the relationship ?
Max - you just kep doing what you're doing. Keep looking good for him - he noticed! And that is the gift that keeps on giving. He is thinking about you and how you looked, while he is away from you. You know this is true.
So you just keep looking good.
The snide remark from him is just his own hurt coming out. It's ok. Don't upset yourself. It has to come out sometime. Empathy. Appologize when he says stuff like that. Apologize (but not profusely) and then just drop it, move on. Don't be defensive. Empathetic, not defensive. Got it?
All the contact from your guy sounds good. He came into the bathroom, huh! Good for you. That's a bit intimate. This is going to take longer than you would like. You just keep on looking good.
next up: what about the GAL part? Get a hobby yet?
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I was thinking that i would be okay on my own as long as he was friendly and happy . Is that telling about the relationship ?
No need over-analyze yourself. What do you want? Do you want to bust this divorce? then you just keep on doing what you're doing.
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Things are ok with me, yes. Similar to you, I guess. Things move slowly. I am still hopeful we'll snatch victory from the jaws of defeat! But whatever happens, I'll be ok. I'll be seeing my kids much more, starting this weekend. Very psyched about that. I already have some good stuff planned.
ps: I don't like the title of your thread!
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Tonight H took D16 out for dinner and movie. He checked with me and I said great as I was going out ( and i was ). I came home and he was waiting. Did not really ask any questions about where I was but i told him anyways ( I am being an open book - I was the one that cheated ). He stayed about 20min and then left. Still felt cold. I was upbeat but quiet.
I know GAL would be great. I work quite hard, I go to the gym, I get facials and hairdressers and nails done etc. I really dont want to take to much more time out of my families life. I know Am going to have to in order to GAL. I just want to pick something that I will really enjoy and one that maybe will open up a whole new social circle. So I am thinking on it.
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I'll be seeing my kids much more, starting this weekend. Very psyched about that. I already have some good stuff planned.
Thats great. Kids need a dad just as much as they need a mum. Some stages they need a dad more. It is my H involvement and desire to be involved that added to my turn around. Keep that up. It also forces contact of a sort which hopefully, with you, will become more open and freer.
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ps: I don't like the title of your thread!
The reason I title it this, is because I struggled as a new person to Dbing to find someone in my situation. I needed help that minute and i wanted to read someone in the same position as me and could not find anyone. With this title it will draw people who have cheated and we might help them or they may offer advice.
I have since spent some time on this site and have found many in my situation but it took a while. i dont title it as a put down of myself. I know i cheated and I find it shameful but also I accept that it was a bad choice made at a bad time in my M. I am only one of a partnership that failed and it would never of failed if all the ducks had been in the right order.
Tomorrow is another day. H comes to my work to help out at night. We have about 2 hours and possibly a quick dinner out if he does not bring it to me. My business is fun and I busy and I come alive amongst other people. I am a peoples person. I relax and become almost there friend in a short space of time ( friends and support I am not short of )
So this is a good oppotunity for H to watch. This is what drew him to me ( he is not socially apt ) I will have to dress nice again. Could be time for shopping spree.
SPM - Do you make sure you look good ? I watch my H all the time so it is justa s important to us chicks!
Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it that way - you titling your thread to help other people. that's thoughtful of you!
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I do make sure I look good. I have always looked good. I think part of the problem was that she always felt overshadowed in the marriage. She felt I was better looking, she felt I was smarter, made more money out of school. Terrible self-esteem issues. When she became a mom she was very good with the kids, and I think that part really fulfilled her. But then the kids grew and didn't need so much care and that is when she just descended into the depths.
When I turned 39, I decided I didn't want to go quietly into middle age so I started working out more, riding my bike, lifting weights. I lost 20 lbs and got very fit. When she started her affair, I was looking good, in good shape, wearing new clothes. She was talking about getting a breast enhancement surgery at the time, and I thought "gee, that's pretty rash!" I loved her the way she was and didn't like the risk of surgery. She never got the durgery, but she continued to talk about getting "saggy" - that was the word she used to describe herself.
As she continued her affair, she would look at me and remark how good I looked. In retrospect, in my mind her comments are rueful, like "look at you and I am just my saggy self."
So the looking good part - I am not so sure that helps. I made it a point to wear after shave and hug the kids so that she smells me when they see her. That was always a thing when we were together - she could smell me on the kids.
In this situation I think what might help more is me getting a girlfriend. (Is this manipulative of me?) But so far my heart is not in it. It's been 18 months since she left our bed, and I am still waiting for her. It's not that I don't have chances or prospects. People are often asking to fix me up on a date. I've turned them down. I wonder if I should continue to do so.
DONT DO IT. I think that maybe in your situation it could be the final nail. Hmmmmm then again, she could feel the balance of scales tipping back.
As the one having the A I often ( with absolute dread ) think that if H went and had a fling that he would feel even. BUT I would die inside and I would have to know it was short term. Actually thinking about it, I would hate it.
My H also is looking really good at the moment and even the thought that he is out there is frightening. It is enough. Plant the seed perhaps but dont act on it.
Great idea with after shave. I know exactly what you mean. I can smell Hs after shave when hes called around and it lingers. Especially the favourite one.
I have had another insight as well which may help you a little.
H has been great since one of our major financial obligations lightened. He definitely was attentive at work yesterday and even made a pass at me. Which I ignored, as if I did not notice ( Good - Bad ? )
Now why I think he is a little responsive is because he is no longer worried about the financial side of things. Now he has never ever taken care of our finances. I did. He just had to go and work. I stayed home with kids until they were old enough for me to work, which I did a few hours a week which led me to become self-employed where i am today.
Since our split I passed a lot over to him and he being the worrier worried about everything. I am not a worrier as such and tend to deal with situations as they occur. so what i am suggesting is :
If your W thought of you as being controling in the past, it could be that in her new situation she is not confiding her real concerns to you about stuff in case that is seen as a weakness or passing back control. So while she is worried she cannot consider resuming the relationship. It maybe that as soon as she feels independent and is coping that she will be in a better position to look at you differently.
This fits with her feeling of being over shadowed in all parts of her life.
Did you always tell her she was lovely ? That you only had eyes for her? When she spoke no matter what you were doing -you answered her ?
When I was sitting at the dinner table with H and the OM and his W before A was discovered and actually for years before the A started, when I had something to say both men would stop and listen and answer, and they would not engage other conversation until mine ceased. Tremendous feeling of being wanted and desired for me.
If your W thought of you as being controling in the past, it could be that in her new situation she is not confiding her real concerns to you about stuff in case that is seen as a weakness or passing back control. So while she is worried she cannot consider resuming the relationship. It maybe that as soon as she feels independent and is coping that she will be in a better position to look at you differently.
YES! I think this makes soooo much sense. I am really rooting for her to become independent and to feel empowered. I regret that she feels that she needs to be independent of me, but after thinking about it, I don't think she can come back to me unless and until she is independent and secure in herself. which is why I think her getting her own job, her own place, paying her bills, etc... is going to be really good for her. This is what I wanted 1 full year ago, and only now is it starting to happen.
I don't want it to "show her". There's no malice. It's the same as an 18 year old kid - I won't buy them a car because it is soooo much more valuable to them if they work on their own and buy one for themselves.
The thing that had me so dismayed was that she was wrestling me for the kids. She was pushing me out of the kids' lives, too. That part was horrible, really hurtful to me. I think she acted in fear.
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Did you always tell her she was lovely ? That you only had eyes for her?
Ha, never enough, in retrospect. But she knew I only had eyes for her. She told her BF that, repeatedly. She knew I was devoted to her. She knew I had no interest in other women. Well, she did know that, but at some point her "advisors and supporters" got her convinced that I was abusive, and since 95% of abusive men are unfaithful, it was obvious that I too, was having an affair. She actually accused me of this - in the movie of my life, it is the single most ludicrous scene. Her accusation was based on no evidence whatsoever, only on the views of her "advisors" who had never even met me. Besides which, it was 100% wrong.
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When she spoke no matter what you were doing -you answered her ?
Yes, I loved and respected her. Truly.
But she got to a point where she did not see it this way. She never raised it with me. She never said to me "you know, I feel like you don't pay attention to me." or "I feel like you don't give me enough credit and recognition." It came out only in her court filings, well after she filed for divorce. Keep in mind I had asked her repeatedly to give me something I should do, or stop doing, before she filed for divorce. We were in therapy and I was asking - give me one thing to work on. One specific thing. But there was never anything. Only after she made up her mind that the marriage was over, did she come out with all this stuff.
She said in her court filings, where she alleged I was abusive, that I dominated her. As examples, she said it was "my way or the highway, on everything from mops to salad dressing." .... I am not making this up. I don't even know how to respond to this. Remember this is the first I heard it - when it was filed in the court. She feels I rigidly "made the decision" on our household mop. Or our salad dressing. It's, honestly, just nutty.
She liked different salad dressing than I did. I didn't use the stuff she bought. End of story. Same with the mop. She bought one. I didn't use it. (I washed the floors by hand. When our babies were little, crawling around, I didn't think the mop did a good enough job). The end. We did not fight about the mop.
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The only thing I can figure is when she says she felt "dominated" it was really guilt. It came out only after the affair. She felt insufficient, like she screwed up, and her anger came out on me. In that state, when she looked backward at our life together - all she could see was black. Everything became sinister and negative. I mean, the mop?
---- Enough about that. I think you have good advice on whether I should find a girlfriend. Lots of people want me to "move on". But I don't know that I'm ready for that, or that it is the right thing, just now. She is only now getting her chance to be independent. I can wait. I expect I will be waiting well after we are divorced.
I'm not really happy about having zero sex life, though.
she liked different salad dressing than I did. I didn't use the stuff she bought. End of story. Same with the mop. She bought one. I didn't use it. (I washed the floors by hand. When our babies were little, crawling around, I didn't think the mop did a good enough job). The end. We did not fight about the mop.
Ha Ha Ha Ha That is the funniest thing i have heard today and without being mean and just a little objective I think i can see your wifes point of view. SPM - why would you care about salad dressing or floor mops. Men don't care about that stuff. Well us woman don't want you to care. Unless your allergic - just eat it and just clean the B&^%$y floor. By not using the mop it says - you undermind the one area where she is boss and thats the home. Tiny little thing but can be monumental when your life is your home. It is these little things that she could be pointing to as being contoling . Nothing to you , lots to her. Perhaps you should make a list of every little thing you disagreed on, no matter how insignificant you felt it was. You may find some insightful ideas about changing your perspective on what is and what isn't controlling behavior and it may give you some areas to work on.
Sorry if this sounds all bossy. Put a smile on my face tonight though.
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I'm not really happy about having zero sex life, though.
Yes this is a problem. I find myself looking enviously at couples now and wishing I had a partner to take home and play with. I know i could if i wanted with H somedays but I think we have agreed that , this would not be for the best.
Interesting about looking good as well. I know you need to look good and have great personality to attract but once you have someones interest I think body imagine becomes less of a concern. It is only needed to attract like a flower to a bee. Men have less to worry about as girls are not sooooo hung up about it.
What was the OM like in your wifes life. My OM was very different and people who know i had a EA ( no one but myself, OM and H no full truth )are shocked that I choose him over my H. They really are bewildered BUT to me SPM he offered far more than looking good. His appeal was in the attention he gave and everything he said.
Can I change my name on this site now that i have started ?
Where are you placed with visitation now ? Always fight and never give an inch on your time and place with your kids! Not an inch !
I see what you are saying on the floor mop and salad dressing. I see your point. But I don't think either of them were real issues. The situation is similar to her belief that I was unfaithful. These delusions - I don't know a better word for it - these delusions all came about after she was afflicted, and I mean that most seriously, by severe guilt.
There is nothing to fix on my part with respect to being unfaithful to her. And likewise, I really do not think there is anything for me to fix on the mops or salad dressing. That might sound pigheaded, but I tried, I looked, and I just don't see it. Must I eat everything she eats? Must I do EXACTLY the same thing as her? These were things we talked about at the dinner table, once. Tiny things. These were not ongoing conflicts.
If we break up a marriage over mops - then it was not really much of a marriage, was it?
You asked, why would I even care? Well, it wasn't a big deal to me. I told you why I didn't like the mop - with the little babies crawling on the floor, the mop didn't clean as thoroughly as I could with my hands. But I didn't say anything or criticize or complain. I just cleaned the floor.
She had nothing to grasp at, so she used mops and salad dressing as the examples of how terrible I was.
It's not real. Seriously. I thought about it a long long time.
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You asked about her OM. The OM was my best friend. In some ways he was a lot like me - same height, similar build, similar coloring. (I am better looking). But he was also a lot different than me: He was a drunk, a stay-at-home-dad, a blow off and underachiever, and sort of a screw up. Like, he was always crashing cars, showing up late, getting drunk, breaking things. One time he crashed his car into my car. Idiot. It was in his driveway. I was watching thinking, "no, he must see the car there, right?" Boom. Crash. And he lied to his wife regularly. a screw up.
I say he was my best friend, but I did have a certain lack of respect for him. Not that I ever put him down, or insulted him. But I was careful around him. He teased my kids a little too much, I thought. I kick myself that I let him stay so close to my family. I knew he was dishonest - he habitually lied to his wife, about stuff that didn't warrant a lie. Lying to your life partner is never a good idea, but this guy lied about stuff that wasn't even *worth* lying about. He just couldn't stop. I'd ask him, why would you lie to her about that? No answer. I knew he was a drunk. But yet I didn't distance myself from him. Why? Character matters. Why did I not stand by my principles?
I say he was my best friend, but really it was "he was the person I spent the most time with, outside of my wife." I was friends with him because our families were friends, and I think that was true because my wife was friends with him. As stay-at-home parents, they spent a ton of time together. HE and I would go bike riding together, or do other guy stuff, and then the families would get together for dinner, or swimming, or a hike or whatever.
At the critical moment, the moment they crossed the Rubicon, they were both drunk. I was out of town on a business trip. He was despondent. He thought his wife was cheating on him, and as a way to get back at his wife, he made a pass at my wife. My wife is a sucker for people in need. I'm not excusing her - just explaining. He cried, wept at the thought that his wife was unfaithful to him. He kissed my wife, and then took her hand up the stairs into the bedroom. To comfort him (does this make sense?) she jumped in the sack with him. Well, after that first time, they both decided it was a good idea to screw each other when their spouses were not looking.
Excuse me while I throw up. . . . . ok, I'm back.
How do I know all this? In the early days, my wife actually communicated with me. She told me that physically, the sex stunk. He never could keep it up. Never once. I guess that is true in many affairs. I myself could not imagine!!!
So I think the appeal he had was the attention, yes. He gave her tons of attention, but it wasn't real. He had no job. All the time in the world to just plan dates in hotels, while I was at work. Come on. Life is not like that, unless you are independently wealthy. It was a fantasy for both of them.
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He is now divorced from his wife. He is still a screw up. No job. He seems to decline in intelligence as he goes along in life. Last I spoke to his wife, he had not seen his kids in 3 weeks. This was the stay-at-home dad, the daily caregiver. He just checked out of their lives. He got arrested a couple times for drunk driving, I heard he spent some time in jail.
A true prize.
This was the man my wife destroyed her marriage for.
Excuse me, I have to throw up again....
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Actually the affair was a symptom. It was also a cause of great distress for me, but it was first and foremost a symptom, that she just did not care about me. She didn't want to be married. She was checked out. It wasn't that the man was better than me. It was that he was different. He was not me. *Anyone* would have sufficed.
I was solidity, regular family life, doing homework with the kids, financial planning, mortgages and dental insurance. saving for college, laundry every day, boring boring boring. He was the guy with the pretend name (they invented names for each other, not pet names, just fake names). He was hotels in the middle of the day, champagne for breakfast. Sorry, I wasn't going to be able to compete with that. I had to go to work. I cannot drink champagne for breakfast.
I am not so bent about the affair any more. The affair is not the main issue, has not been for a long time. The issue is, she doesn't want to be married. She thinks she is better off without me.
This is the part I wish would hurry up and happen - life without me. Especially life without my money. So far she hasn't had that reality.
For a while she insisted that the kids were better off without me, too. I was abusive, you see, and so she wanted them to have no relationship with me at all. But that has faded. She sees that we have a great time together. She sees how stimulated they are when they return from a day with me. She sees.
Maybe one day she will change her mind about herself, too. and if that happens, maybe I will still be waiting for her. Maybe.
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Yes, you can change your name. I don't know how, but I know you can do it. Try fiddling with your profile.
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For visitation, we are nearing final agreement. I hate the fact that as a father I get "Visitation". As if I am not a parent at all. But that is the reality of divorce in my state. This is terribly unjust, but it is the way it works. I was there every day for 12 years, and now I have to ask to be able to "visit" them. I changed countless diapers, and I have no rights except those she grants to me.
Excuse me while I throw up one more time. . . .
I haven't given up any time with my kids. The good news is, they want more time with me. So I trust that whatever happens in the short term, in the long term, we'll be ok. I will have a great relationship with my kids.
Ok about the mop and salad dressing - thought it might of been a couple of little small things that became monumental in wifes world. Thought I may of provoked some new thoughts in your quest for answers.
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hat might sound pigheaded, but I tried, I looked, and I just don't see it. Must I eat everything she eats? Must I do EXACTLY the same thing as her? These were things we talked about at the dinner table, once. Tiny things. These were not ongoing conflicts.
I know they are tiny but they may of not been for your W. No you don't have to eat what she eats but don't make a fuss ( you may not have ) Make light of differences. Could blind fold kids and get them to do taste test on which is best dressing - just for family fun....... I suppose my point is, that we dont expect men to have opinions on mops etc. Our domain. Could I liken it to your W pulling all the sparkplugs out of the family cars and replacing them with the ones she likes. Little thing to her ( she believes car runs more efficiently) could be huge to you. Is she undermining your ability as a man to run the cars correctly ?
I dont know - just a shot in the dark
I cannot believe your W OM. It is amazing, your story is my story in reverse. My Om and his W were family friend ( they still would like to be - little sick ) He worked but not a high achiever but he liked to pretend he was. His W had an A 10 years ago and for some reason he told me and only me about it. His W knew i knew and that I knew her OM but in all our days , holidays , picnics etc we never talked about it.I told my H . for the next 8 years I was quietly pursued by Om and was often warned by my H to be careful. One day he came on to me and I was feeling very vulnerable and I responded. It was EA for 7 months.
We were in PA on 2 occasions of which he also could not complete. My H finds this very hard to believe and so i was fasinated when you said - this often happens . Why does this happen ?
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She didn't want to be married. She was checked out. It wasn't that the man was better than me. It was that he was different. He was not me. *Anyone* would have sufficed.
My OM would often say that too me. I did not believe him. But he was right. I can even remember the day my emotional switch with my H went off. There was not a darn thing he could of done to stop me. I was finished and relieved that I had found something better. I believe I hated H. I believed he had never listened to a word i said when I was in pain or wanting more from marriage. I took his silence and buried head to think he was just doing his own thing and that in some way he was controlling my life. To a certain extent this was true.
It is wrong about visitation. Here it has become quite common for 2 things to happen:
1. The family home is maintained and each parent moves in for a week at a time. In thier off week the spouse usually boards with a friend or family member , thus keeping costs down .That way the kids are not unsettled.
2. The kids spend week about or fortnight about at each parents house. Everyone has to live in close proximity . Creates some stability in an otherwise upside down world for them.
In both situations no one pays child support. A joint account can be created for general expenses, such as clothes, school stuff.
Any chance of you working on something like that.
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I will have a great relationship with my kids.
At the end of the day that will be what counts. Be very careful if you do find someone else.Any time spent with them is time with your kids. I wonder if you can recall how your W was during her A.
How did she treat you and the kids ? What was her moods like?
