I am not even sure if this post belongs here but hopefully someone can give me some advice.
My W was/is a WAW since 6/16/08. I have strongly suspected an OM although I haven’t been able to come up with a ‘smoking gun’ and she adamantly denies anything except “Mocking my insecurity” by “joking” and simulating R talk with other M/Couple and lying to me about where she was and who she has been communicating with. OK having said that I am not an idiot and I can see through the bullsh!t and I am pretty convinced there is an A. W and I are at the point where she is trying to decide if she wants to file or spend the next 3-4 months trying to work things out. I have told her that “although I don’t necessarily feel ‘in love with you’ either right now I KNOW that we can work this out and make our R better than ever.” This seems to almost anger her. Not the part about me not being ‘in love’ but the part about me knowing we can work it out. She just doesn’t seem to get why I would feel that way. I have explained that I feel that we are in a stage of marriage (4 years + 9 Month old D) that would be hard for the most solid couples. Add in our issues (PK abuse/controlling behavior/lack of communication & all the favorites) and it’s no wonder we are miles apart and you are considering D. BUT I see this as an opportunity to address those things that we need to change about ourselves and make things better than ever. She says she has absolutely no desire for affection from me and that the sex we have is meaningless. She says that we have taken MC’s advice and have “spent time together” but she hasn’t regained any feelings towards me. I don’t think she has let her guard down and I don’t think she has been able to let go of all of the resentment she has for me and as a result we aren’t able to connect. She feels that it just isn’t going to work. So as I said we are at a point where she is trying to decide if she wants to file or do what I am asking and to truly work on our M. She is unsure if she wants to file and she can give me a mile long list of why she might be unsure about filing but none of the reasons is that she may believe that things can work out. The closest she came to that is saying that she doesn’t want to regret this decision in 3 years and she is trying to see my point of view about mending the R. She asked me “what does it mean to WORK on our marriage?” if she decided to stay. I replied that we need to let go of any resentment and to communicate to each other what it is we need from someone to be in a good relationship. But I have to admit that I have nothing after that. What does it mean to work on a relationship? I read DR a few weeks ago but I kind of glossed over the sections on piecing because I never thought I would get there. What does it really mean to “Work on our marriage”?
My H and I went to a Retro weekend. It is all about communicating and being able to be your most authentic self in front of your spouse.
To me working on your M means trying to see where you are off track and working to get there. The difference is for those of us not wanting a D, doing the "work" is more appealing. Those who have mentally checked out or who have another person affirming them (OM/OW) may have no interest in anything that looks or sounds like work. This is a tough one to answer for me...
Read "BobbiJo" too! She's doing an excellent job writing about the trials, tribulations, and most importantly, the solutions she comes up with to get her marriage back on track.
However, the reason it's tough for her to find an answer for you is this: I'm sorry, but you can't "work" on your marriage if there is an OM. Especially if she's lying about it and ridiculing you. While this is totally normal gaslighting behavior, it is even more disrespectful than starting with the truth.
Soo, what you say when she asks how to work on your marriage, is that you both must agree that there will be no 3rd party involved while you are giving the marriage the best chance possible for the sake of your daughter. Do not allow her to lie to you or ridicule you. Tell her you are serious about giving your family a chance but it will take honesty and commitment.
Are you acting like the man she fell for 10 years ago? Are you acting like the father you want to be?
What are the reasons she comes up with that makes her consider working on your M? These are the things that are working. Why did she move back home? Could the A be over?
Thanks for the responses I will look up those 2 members.
I just want to clarify something. The ridiculing was her excuse for sending myspace messages to him saying "I look at your picture often" and TXT messages that "appeared" to indicate a relationship. She says that she was doing these things sarcastically as a joke to make fun of my insecurities to him and his GF. She has since admitted that this was wrong and it was a big part of the breakdown in trust in our M
As far as acting like the man I was 10 years ago? Yes and no. Yes I have regained some of my self confidence and I no longer rely the M or her to make me feel good about myself. As I have told her I don't need the marriage to feel good about myself anymore. But no, I don't play hockey 4 days a week and smoke a 1/2 oz of pot.
her possible reasons for not wanting to file are: She doesn’t have a job right now and doesn’t feel she can D until she does, she will miss our lifestyle (nice house, nice cars, and money) but admits that’s not a good reason, she will miss my family, she doesn’t want me mad at her, and most recently she wants to see my pov on improving the R.
I doubt the A is over. She is still keeping cell phone/computer passwords etc from me. Also does anyone have an opinion on GALing and going out tonight even if it seems she doesn’t like me doing this?
What about getting back on a hockey team? Keeps you in shape, gets you out of the house in a great atmosphere... smoking half oz.. uh, probably not a good plan. :-)
What doesn't she like about you GAL? I don't think you should leave her with relatively new D too often... but does she go out at night? Again, do you interact with your D as much as possible?
Maybe I should read your initial posts; I'm trying to find the balance, while she's in hesitation mode, between making sure you are the better option and tipping the scale back in your direction. That is, making her see what she's losing and realizing that she can. Sometimes her getting mad isn't a bad thing. You need her respect and attention and I'm glad to read that you've come a long way in getting your confidence and security back, but if she's using you to finance her A, she won't be attracted to you. We kind of teach people how to treat us.
Working on your trust issues would be one of the first steps in working on your marriage... you need transparency for that-- those passwords-- I don't believe her explanation for the myspace messages. I'm sorry if I sound mean, I'm just on your side because you are here and it's really important that you take care of you because you can't keep her from making stupid mistakes and losing a husband that loves her this much. You can, however, show her what a confident, loving, husband will do to save his family.
Sometimes people will not change their behavior until the pain of continuing that behavior is greater than the pain of changing it. She's going to have to give something up. People will be hurt. There is no getting around that. But your D is innocent, she deserves to learn what working through problems in a relationship is like. So do you and your W.
I am 100% onboard with the hockey thing. As soon as I get may cardio up to a place where I wont embarrass myself I am going to start up again. W does not go out at night. She did at the beginning but more recently she has lied to me about where she was going during the day.
Financially I cut her off except for a place to live with D. I She has agreed to pay for everything else including 1/2 of all bills except the mortgage.
She won’t admit to A and I have had several semi-successful attempts to out it. But ultimately every time she comes up with some BS to explain where she was or what she was doing. I know I probably don’t belong in Piecing with my post but I would like to know #1 is trying piecing or does the spouse need to have a total turn around and be back in the M 100%? And #2 what should I ask of my W if she decides to give things a try again? I know I want transparency, communication (including what she wants out of an R and weather or not I am hitting the target), and an honest attempt to leave resentment and anger behind are the things that I need. I know giving the resentment will be as hard as getting her to admit A.
Like what everyone else here has mentioned, it all comes down to truth. She's gotta be honest with you and no BS. Only then can ANYTHING be worked on. Honesty, even if it's shown little by little, has to be the starting point for any fixing to take place.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
After the conversation W and I had Thursday night I spent a lot of the workday Friday thinking about things and felt like I was able to get to a place where I was starting to achieve some real detachment. I had a real feeling of letting go and had little desire to concern myself with where she is or who she is talking to. I told myself ‘she has been lying to you and having an A and you can’t do anything about it so move on with your life’ and I really started feeling that way. Then I got home from work on Friday and W tells me she has been doing a lot of thinking. She decided she wants to work on R and she wants to schedule a weekend away with just the 2 of us. WTF? As soon as I start to feel some sort of acceptance and start letting go she wants to work on R? So I did what I thought was right and went out to a strip club.
So am I officially piecing? I cant help but have some feeling that I am being manupulated. Maybe because I have been lied to so many times. We have started with the transperency... well she went through my phone. I am going to ask her tonight for the password to her cell phone account that has her call history. Well see how that goes.
any sugestions where to go on the "getaway weekend"? She is suggesting Vegas in case we cant get along. If we cant then at least there is plenty to do so we arent stuck in a beach cabana together, is her thinking. I have to say that may not be a bad suggestion.
LOL. Are you serious? Kind of a defeatist mindset doncha think?
Anyhow, you learned what works. Control what you can--your happiness and life choices. The rest will follow.
Honestly, if the point is to work on the relationship I might consider a workshop type of weekend to start with-- but that's just me and to be honest, when we get away for the weekend, time alone together has been enough.
Did you check out Sara's thread like BBJ suggested? The program she wrote about has had wonderful results for many people in the piecing stage. They do require that there be no 3rd party in the R and that you have an open mind and heart. Or something like that. Sara explains it really well.
