Close encounters of the MLC kind

[hoosiermama]

See, the thing is I believe he was the one for me. I think he developed a pattern of making easy, selfish choices and I let him do that. I don't think I settled, I think I saw potential in him that needed more guidance than I could provide. I couldn't have changed him, but I did get lazy or hopeless and enable him to deny anyone elses' needs besides his own. Had I been stronger, he may have left sooner--or he may have grown up a little. It's not my fault that we got to this point, but I did nothing to prevent it. I don't think I really knew how, not sure I still know how yet. But once again, I have the time and the space to get to know myself. I'm older, wiser, and have a wonderful child this time around.

[BeingMe]

Hi Hmama! Sorry you're having an emotional weekend. These times come and go, 'eh!

Reading through your post, I get the feeling that you had certain expectations from your H, that he was unable to meet, or unwilling. Perhaps, he is being his authentic self, and you weren't? Or, is it possible that, ultimately, you were both too different to sustain the M unless there was some serious work from both of you?

Who knows what makes a person leave their M, instead of fight for it? Even the ones who should know better. You both had your parts to play, and his is more dramatic, and hurtful. But, you seemed to be the passive one, who did not stand for yourself, and your needs. This is where I wonder if you were both too different. Perhaps he needed someone who was more dramatic, more willing to hurt him if her needs weren't met. Or, if he was more passive, and a homebody that didn't have too many friends either.

I do get the feeling, though, that you come across in RL as beige, but under the surface, and in your heart, you are a raging red. You are not a shrinking violet in your writings, but seemed to be so in your M. It's almost as if you are afraid to present your real self to the real world, but you can here?

I may be way off base here, and if I am, I apologize profusely. Just, I do get a sense of some of this when I read your posts.

I was a bit like this myself, but I decided awhile ago, that life is too damn short to cow-tow to others, that I have a voice that can and should be heard, like anyone else. And, I will fight for what is mine and not just throw it away ... and that includes fairness in monetary issues. Still, I allow my H to get away with way too much, but he has improved a lot. But, I am being me (or, at least, trying), for better or worse.

Hope your week goes well. Take care.

[hoosiermama]

Hi, BeingMe. I believe you've hit the nail on the head! I think I was probably less of a shrinking violet then overwhelmed with being a working mom and dealing with a lot of other stuff too. Plus, I'm not sure I knew how. I gave in too easily for sure, was screaming on the inside but showing nothing on the outside until I blew up.

Funny you should say this now--well, not funny really, but prophetic because I'm dealing with/working on how not to be invisible/beige (perfect word!!)/self-concealing/aloof. D is exactly the same in that respect, and is discovering the consequences of invisibility. We talk about it sometimes, and I realize I'm talking to myself.

I have FOO issues that undoubtedly left me without knowing how to "be heard." In fact, there was a time when I was ~15 when I actually lost my voice and couldn't speak after a trauma. It didn't last long, but I remember it clearly now. So some reflection on this whole issue--being heard, having a voice--seems to be important to work through it. I know it had a role in the disaster of my last job, although I truly did try to be heard. I was just never quite successful. And certainly it was a factor in my marriage tanking.

I'm not sure we were "too different." I think our dysfunctions attracted each other and fed each other's issues. And when I got tired of doing that, I began to stuff everything to keep the peace. But of course it comes out in other ways when you do that. Mostly I really think I enabled his narcissism and immaturity. The really sad thing is, this is the example D has of marriage, and she is so like me she's likely to follow in my footsteps.

Beige--that's so perfect. It is exactly what I see when I look at myself in the mirror. The person looking back doesn't seem to be familiar at all. I had thought it was a function of aging--and that may be part of it--but I think it's much deeper. I wish it was as simple as dying my hair and changing my "look," and that wouldn't be a bad idea, really. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's how I carry myself. I worked with a seminarian a few summers ago who is no longer "in;" he gave me some great feedback (he was older and far more insightful than anyone gave him credit for). He said I was 2 different people--when I was doing pastoral visits, I owned the place. But when I walked back into the parish center I disappeared into the walls. A big light went on for me there. And another one with what you wrote. Thank you so much!! You've given me so much to chew on!!!

[hoosiermama]

Reading through your post, I get the feeling that you had certain expectations from your H, that he was unable to meet, or unwilling. Perhaps, he is being his authentic self, and you weren't?

One more thought on this. Yes, I had expectations that, to a certain extent, he'd be strong, someone I could lean on, so I wouldn't have to be the "strong one" all the time. Because that's how he was when we first got involved romantically, and he talked a good story when he returned from the monastery. I was somewhat surprised when he turned out not to be that person, and I kept waiting for that guy to re-emerge and became angry when he didn't. I think it was all a persona that he had/has in the beginning of relationships; to be crude, when he's trying to get into someone's panties. It isn't the real him. The authentic H is not the strong one. The authentic H needs a mommy to tell him he's wonderful and special and take care of him 24/7. I think that's why he always gets involved with nurses! OW won't do that for him, but he'll find that out soon enough.

Recent example: Last summer, I had a real freak fall (I'm a klutz!) and dislocated my shoulder. It happened at work, on Mother's Day. Because they couldn't reach H (he was mowing) and because I was in tremendous pain, they called an ambulance to take me to the hospital. Eventually a really nice parishioner who is a police detective managed to reach H; he did an absolutely wonderful job of explaining without scaring H. I remember thinking--wow, this guy knows what he's doing! When H arrived, they were loading me into the ambulance--clearly a scary sight. And I was drugged to the max. But he was angry with me. That's how I knew how scared he was--his default emotion is always anger. And for once I didn't take it personally. But in that emotional state he was absolutely no help, and at the hospital I had to emotionally care for him and D, which I didn't do very well because I had an alarming amount of fentanyl onboard. I told them to go home until after they reduced my shoulder. I remember thinking--wow, it doesn't even matter to me that I have to be the caregiver when I'm the one with the injury, I just know that H doesn't have the capacity to do anything besides be pissed off until this is over. Just one of those realizations that you make and adjust to. What hurt is that it disgusted him to help me shower a few days later, and he didn't even care enough to hide it.

I didn't want a hero, you know? I didn't want someone to swoop in and save me. I just wanted a soft place to fall, someone I could lean on alternately with him leaning on me. I don't know that H has that capacity. Again, if he spends adequate time in the tunnel to gain some self-insight (something he's never had) he might be able to grow up in that regard. But that's pretty iffy. I'm not holding my breath.

[hoosiermama]

Oh dear, everyone's fallen asleep reading my looooooonnnngg posts!

But really, for anyone making it through all that stuff--I learned a lot today by writing it down. I'm in a much stronger place, feeling much more detached. And in my case I need to be detached, not simply self-differentiated!

I see my lawyer on Wednesday to strategize and turn in my financial disclosure--which I really can't do until I get my first pay stub on Friday. But anyway, I need some advice. Because I go back and forth on this. Do I try to drag this out as long as I can to give OW the opportunity to dump his a** and see if he comes whimpering back with his tail between his legs (which will present me with quite the dilemma), or should I just get thru it and get past it (with fair financial settlements, of course)? In Indiana, the wait is only 60 days after filing, which happened on 9/8. I know things can turn around even in 60 days, but honestly I don't see that happening in my sitch because he's never so much as glanced back; no amount of db'ing has had any effect on him. And best-case scenario, if he gets through the tunnel and becomes the new and improved H--it's going to take some time. Years, not months most likely. And I need to get on with my life and not have this hanging over my head. No, I don't want to be divorced, God knows. But it's going to happen, and I need some kind of strategy so I don't feel like such a victim.

[BeingMe]

I don't know how much my advice would be worth re the actual divorce. But, I would say go with the route that will cost you the least, but gain you the most. Your H does earn a lot more, and this could lead to his having to pay all legal fees, plus a nice CS and spousal support. He may be more prone to be fair with you and D, rather than give it to the lawyers. But then, your H is a supremely foolish man, so who knows what he will do. I hope your lawyer will have some good, sound advice.

Be strong, and don't see yourself as a victim. We are only victims if we allow ourselves to be. Mmm, didn't Elenore Rooseveld say something like that? You are a well educated, spiritually strong, loving mother, who did not ask for all this, but dammit, show that you will get the best out of it. Yes, strategize, but you also have to have the right attitude ... the one that says "you ain't riding over me and my daughter with a fight, mistuh foolish H",

Take care.

[hoosiermama]

Again, right on the mark! I have, all along, intended for him to pay for all legal fees. After all, this is his divorce, not mine, so he should foot the bill. I doubt I'll get spousal support--he'll fight tooth and nail about that one. It's a family thing: his mom still works at 73 and will as long as she can stand because dad retired at 59 because his feet hurt. So there's an expectation there. But I do intend to get all the CS I can manage, because D deserves all the advantages he can give her. She wanted to take harp lessons badly, and that's been back-burnered because of this. I want her to have harp lessons. He's moving into an apartment which is undoubtedly quite pricey, and that's just foolish until he knows how this will turn out financially for him. He feels entitled to have a wonderful single life (as well as to live out life as it was 22 years ago, apparently). However, I think it will be relevant that I came into the marriage with no debt and a down payment for a house, and he came in with nothing but debt. I supported him thru 2 years of graduate school and a year of residency. And I have copies of the emails that reveal the affair. They are quite explanatory; I think he's in for a shock if I need to pull those out, because in his denial he doesn't believe they say anything. But they say everything about why and when he left. As for attitude--I'm right there with you.

[theoden]

Hoosier,

I don;t do much posting on the weekends, so I am doing a little catch up. I'm up to date.

You said...

That is me to the extreme. I do a lot for a lot of people. But no one knows who I am. I had a quote on my bulletin board at my church office (from whom I don't remember)that said "it is the spirit we have, not the work we do, which makes us important to the people around us." I'm not sure I have ever learned to "fix" this. It's absolutely unconscious. And probably comes from needing to be invisible in my family of origin to escape abuse, blah blah blah

This is very common for those of us who had to become silent or peace-maker/diplomats in our FOO. We learned to get what we wanted, not by asking for it (like normal people do) but by avoiding conflict and appeasing others. We are people pleasers, who very often, don't take care of our selves. This makes us depressive and lacking self-respect/esteem. But principally it doesn't allow us to reveal our selves to others. This kills intimacy,and it invites abuse and contempt from others.

I was reading this morning that people, often, after the revelation of an affair, do everything they can to save/fix the marriage. What they are really in search of is not a fix for the marriage, but, rather, something much deeper: themselves. They search for the self, perhaps that they lost a long time ago. Perhaps this self never really emerged yet. But the core essence of the self they are looking for is the self that will not allow their spouses to treat them so cruelly.

Hoosier, you are a brilliant, spiritual, self-aware and very interesting woman. Maybe you just need to see that for yourself.

Regarding the divorce now vs. stalling question.

I don't think you should jeapordize your daughter's future under any circumstances.

Some questions to ponder...

What would stalling accomplish? If it's worth doing, how easy would it be for you to stall? How much time would it buy you? Would it hurt your settlement in the divorce? Would stalling show weakness to your husband? Would it show strength?

Hun, go easy on yourself these days. You are under tremendous strain.

--Theoden

[MoMo01]

Hoosier, I read your thread and I think that you are an amazingly resilient woman. You have been through a lot yet you continue to maintain a stable home for your D.

I am divorcing my W although I never really wanted to. I figured that if she was so unhappy that she felt the need to develop a relationship with a man 10 yrs younger whom she was visiting in jail, I should allow her to pursue her life journey by divorcing her. I even had to think of nebulous reasons for the divorce so not to state that the reason was indeed adultery.

I felt that by freeing her from what she perceived as the shackles of marriage, I was freeing myself. I had to do a lot of mental work to reconceptualise my view of the situation. It was very hard to let go. I have now met a very nice woman, but I have to work on my resistance to commit. I am honest with her about how I feel and she has been incredibly patient.

The reason why I am saying all this Hoosier, is that to start a new life, I had to shut the door firmly behind my previous one. Are you ready for a new beginning? There is happiness in store for you, but not with your XH.

MoMo01

[hoosiermama]

Thank you. Yeah, resilience is my middle name. At least some days. And some days my home is more stable than others; some days we have a sink full of dishes and a mountain of dirty laundry and we eat fast food for dinner.

I don't look at it as my H being so unhappy that he left me for a crazy situation, because just a week or so earlier he was not unhappy. I see it more as temporary insanity with some subsequent justifying, rationalizing, cruelty and entitlement. It is essentially my H with the brakes off. Do I want to be in relationship with someone who doesn't want to be with me? No. Do I want to lose myself and my self-respect just to be with him? No. The only thing that alters my feelings is concern for D12. I am trying hard to drop the rope, close the door, begin again, but it's a slow process. I am also not the least bit interested in a new romantic relationship. Not because I'm hopeless or think little of myself, I just need to figure this all out before I even think about connecting with someone.