WAW in MLC? Can anybody here give me their take?

[Jimbo]

I know my post is probably in the wrong place because I'm a LBS, but I just don't know where to turn anymore. I'm so confused and distraught, I don't feel like there's any hope and I just want to understand what might be going through my WAWs mind. I had posted my sitch here and was talking to Puppy, but then I guess he bailed. I'm trying to DB and I thought I was making progress, but now it's as if my progress is reverting! W seems like she's trying to erase all traces of our past together. Is this normal for a WAS?

[sandi2]

Hi Jimbo, I read your stitch and no, Puppy did not bail on you. It has only been three days since he last replied and besides, he is in very high demand here on the board. He probably has himself spread so thin, he can't get around to everyone and have a life left for himself! Anyway, there are great folks here and willing to help as long as you will listen and try to help yourself. It will be better to find one forum and stay there so we can keep up with what is going on. If this doesn't get many responses, then I suggest you go to Newcomers forum.

I was an almost WAW. Man, how many times I have introduced myself as that. I have been here a little over a year and it seems more like a century b/c it is hard and it take a very long time. There are no magic spells, no quick fixes, no bewitching moments of falling in love all over again........only very hard work and changes. Both, of which, will be on your part. So, unless you can determine to have the patient of Job (in the Bible) and hang in here for the long haul, then you won't make it. You have got to have a lot of strength. You have got to "man-up" like never before. You will have to take the 2x4's when you need them. And, you can't afford to feel sorry for yourself. This is a job for someone with much endurance. And remember this......your wife is not the one here....you are. So, it will be you that we talk to and at times you will think that we should be saying that to your wife.....but she isn't here. We can only talk to you. Which brings me to something else. Never let her read your DR book or try to get her to read this board. That would be the worst thing to do. Don't try to get her to read any M books or watch videos or any of that stuff. She isn't interested and it is pursuing. Everything to her from you is seen as pursuing.....you might as well realize that now.

Puppy is about the best man around for laying it on the line to you guys about WAW's that are involved in an affair. He doesn't believe in the "soft" approach, as you probably saw. There have been only one or two things that I probably have ever disagreed with him about and I can't even remember what those were at the moment.

I can give you the view point for the WAW, but that is not to say that I defend them. I just understand how most of them feel b/c of my own stitch.

Embarassing for me to say, I was past the age that you think that most women would leave their H's for another man. Just goes to show you that it can happen at anytime and to any person. I was your typical "proper wife" (as I refer to myself) and the last thing I ever....ever thought about was looking at another man.....much less actually having an EA with one over the Internet.

I can give you the beginning of my first thread when I came on board. I can tell you that the advice that I got from some very wise DBers saved my 40+ year M. Now, I am trying to help others by giving them what I have learned through my own stitch and also just things I've learned about "life" over a period of many years. I got married very young and went straight from my parents home to my MIL'S home to live with my young H. It would take pages and pages to tell all the things that happened to cause us to get off on the wrong foot. But, we stuck it out for all those years until......something happened to me. I am still not sure what it was. I used to think it was a MLC, but I was too old for that.....although I had all the "signs". Maybe it was years and years of things combined that just made me go kind of "looney", but whatever it was, I was able to pull out of the fog a lot sooner than most people claim to do and I give this board the credit for that.....and for helping me get "straight" again. So, please stay here with us until you can get yourself together. There have been many success stories. Most of them have gone their way to live happily ever after (we hope), but the rest of us are still here helping each other by trying to encourage and advise.

Have you been following the DR book? I have to tell you that I have read very many books on MR and it is one of the very best. It works! It may be too late to save your M. DR does not promise to save marriages, but if you follow the guildlines, it will come the closest to doing it than anything else can......and even if it doesn't save it.....you will be okay in the end.

So, here is the link to my first thread. Hope to hear from you after you read it.

Sandi

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1116410&page=2#Post1116410

[grant]

Hi Sandi.
Apologies for hi-jacking the thread. TwinDad suggested that I might contact you. I would be extremely grateful if you might be able to offer some insight into my personal sitch. It's not terribly pretty I'm afraid. But then again, they seldom are!!

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1558850&page=1&nt=3&fpart=1

Many thanks,

Grant

[Jimbo]

Hi Sandi,

Thanks so much for responding. I read and re-read DR over and over, trying to deduce the best recipe for my sitch, and to help boost my courage for this long, long journey. After reading so much good advice on this board, I've come to realize just how much of a roller coaster ride this is going to be. I was all "manned up" as you say for this to possibly go on for YEARS, and then I got the rug pulled out from under me this past Sunday. I had just expanded my DB repertoire this past Sunday to include breaking off contact under my terms when we do see each other, and being less forthcoming with responses to things like her squeezing my leg under the table at breakfast. She asked more than once about where I was going after we would part, and after many non-committal answers, I could tell she just wouldn't stop probing. I finally gave her a vague answer of, "I'm just going somewhere where I can think things through". I'm wondering whether I screwed up big time, or whether it would have happened anyway, because later on that day, my wife dropped the D bomb. I can't be sure whether my response to that did more harm than good.

I sat there in silence, staring out the window for what must've been about 10-15 minutes without saying a word- just stunned. When I got some semblance of my wits about me (NOT an easy task, as you can imagine) I tried a 180 of what I thought she might have expected. I got up, walked over to her, looked her deeply and lovingly in the eyes, kissed her as tenderly as I could, reestablished eye contact with her, and said "You gave up." (referring to the fact that she admitted many months ago that she didn't try to talk about her feelings or seek counseling of any sort to try to save our marriage before she left.) I then walked upstairs, grabbed a soft sided travel bag, came back downstairs, and started to pack up her books in it. After a LONG SILENCE, She said "Do you want to talk about it?", to which I replied "There's nothing to say- you've made your decision!" without missing a beat in packing. I started to lose it, and then she started to help with packing the books up, which by now were falling over inside the bag, and making me very frustrated. She then said, "There will be plenty of time for that later". Long story short, we got to talking about how she spends practically all of her time with the OM, and I was lucky to get a couple hours with her on a Sunday, if that, and how a lot of things had changed since she moved out, and that she wasn't giving us a fair chance. Bottom line is that I talked her into coming to counseling with me today for a separate session on her own, even though she said that she still doesn't know that she wants to work on the M. She asked if there was anything else I wanted from her, and, not wanting to push my luck, I told her no, nothing I can think of right now, but that might change in the future. Then she said something very curious- "I suppose, you want me to move back into the house now." I held back my true desires as I told her that no, I thought that was a bit too premature, and that it would probably do more harm than good right now. She seems so threatened by any sort of relationship with me right now.

You are absolutely right in saying that anything I do is tantamount to pursuing, but at the same time it is SO HARD to just let my wife go on seeing the OM and going on little weekend jaunts with him, while I bite my tongue. About the only thing that keeps me afloat is the fact that she now admits that pursuing an EA like she did was very immature, and says she still doesn't know how she feels about him, which may or may not be the truth because during the talk she also admitted that she is REALLY attracted to his "quirky" sense of humor, and that it makes her "blood boil". At least I was able to also confirm that it's an EA and not a PA. (for now anyway- who knows if/when her blood will boil over, assuming that she's even telling the truth about it being an EA.)

I feel like I've really screwed up. I've opened the door for her to come to counseling a few times, not really try, and then claim that we tried that and it didn't work, so we should just get a D. Do you think I should back track after this one session? And should I back off of my new additions to my repertoire?

[Ready2Change]

Hey,

I think you did a great job. You need to show W that you don't need her and that you will be fine without her.

Your W will test you.
I have been recommending reading this: Levine:"Hold on to your NUTS" to every guy. Not sure If I recommended it to you yet, but it is worth reading ASAP. That and DR are my guide to a better ME.

Become the man you always wanted to be.....

[sandi2]

Hi Jimbo, well, I was going to try to stay away from the board for a few days, but I must be hooked on it...lol. I have spent the last few days more with family members, but now I'm here alone for a while, so thought I would look in and see how things were going.

One thing about a WAW is that you very seldom can predict what she will do next. One day she may be flirting with you and leading you to believe there is hope yet and the next day she is cold as a fish.

Almost the first thing that was told to me when I came aboard was this....."you cannot love two men at the same time". That is true. She is going to have to decide which one of the two of you she wants to take a chance with. That is how she sees it Jimbo, as taking a very big risk with her happiness for the future. Does she go back to you and "hope" that things will be different and better or does she take a leap of faith with this man that she thinks is making her "blood boil". That's a funny statement, b/c I think she meant that in a sexual sense, but I always heard it linked in an angry way. But, we know from what we have all read and learned about the chemicals that give you this sense of "falling in love" when you get involved with another person.....and it will not last. That is what she is feeling at this time. It would do no good for YOU to be the one to try to explain that to her. She would not believe you and she would just turn against you that much more. Hopefull, if she does go to a "good" pro-marriage counselor, he/she will make her see that these are false chemcials flooding her brain and making her feel that way. Believe me, I went down that road and I know how they can make you feel! I didn't think I had any feelings left in me. I had felt dead for so long until I met my OM and he got my blood stirring also. But, it dosn't last.

The way I see it, you have two options. You can completely go dark and have no contact at all with her until she is either completely over this guy and ready to work on her M with you or she marries him. He may dump her or they may live together and then she will discover the blood doesn't boil so much any more. Or, they may even get M and then she will learn she has made at errible mistake.

In the meantime, you act as if you have forgotten about her (or at least you aren't focused on her all the time) and live you life as though she will not be a part of it again. The advantage of going dark is that she needs to miss you and that is the best way for her to miss you......is by never seeing you or talking, email, texting....the whole bit. No contact....period! Now, if that is not reasonable or even possible, then you may have to go partically dark, which doesn't work as well, but there have been some successful times with that.

Then there is option two, where you "outshine" the OM. To me this is what really takes "grit and grace" b/c it is the hardet thing you ever did. You have to almost become an entirely different person and you certainly have to act differently. You can "outshine" the OM and still not pursue her. You have to play hard to get, but at the same time, do things that will make her want to get you. I'm not talking about chasing her.....any type of pursuing....and you have lost her....don't forget that!

I'm talking about looking your best at all times...(might want to consider a new male make-over with clothes, new hair cut, facial hair or shaven)and always smell great b/c this has an effect on females, go to the gym or do your own type of work out. Besides working on the outside of your self improvements, work on your personality and practice being "charming". I think a lot of men have forgotten a wonderful "tool" in hooking women in (if I should use such an expression) but all women love charming men. Be a gentleman at all times, but not a pansy. Be "cool" as the kid say. Act suave like Rhett Butler or James Bond (lol)......that is kind os an on going line with some other guys, but you get the picture. It is important that you learn to call the shots. You draw the boundries about what will not be tollerated. In other words.....you are the one in control of your stitch. You my not be able to control her, but you can be in control of your life. But, all the time, you are "cool" about how you do it.

You've probably seen my long list I have passed around. It is mostly for people still living under the same roof, but it can also work for those that are S. But, anyway, you need to think about which route to take. What would work better for you. If you have a hard time controlling your emotions, then you may need to go dark. But, that is what you will have to decide.

Anyway, you are among so many LBH's that have gone through this same thing. And, yes, there are some success stories. Not all turn out that way b/c you cannot control what she does. That is what you must remind yourself on a daily basis......you cannot control what she thinks, feels, or does. You can only control YOU.

Let us know what you decide.

Sandi

[badcompany]

one other thing Jim,

Puppy is always around, he's made it through his troubles and is out selflessly trying to help EVERYONE on here. give him time, he'll stop in again

he's the Duke

[sandi2]

Oh please! You'll give Puppy the big head!

[Jimbo]

Hi gang,

I hope you all had a good holiday weekend. I decided I needed to take some time away from the board to consider how to apply Sandi's take to my sitch.

The whole issue of how to approach counseling with W became a non-issue. After we left the counseling session Wednesday, she told me in the parking lot that she was glad that she went for the experience of what it was like, but that she would not be coming back. (I was actually half expecting this, but was still crushed to hear it from her lips). Screwed up again- I turned it into a R discussion where I made no headway, and she didn't back off her position. (When will I learn to keep my mouth shut? >SIGH< )Among the points she made about our R- if she still loved me, why doesn't she feel sexually attracted to me, and why wouldn't she feel she wants to be back with me again all the time, instead of just when we're together? But we wound up going to dinner together afterward for 2 hours. She dropped me off back at my car where she told me she had a really good time, gave me a kiss and hugged me for what felt like 5 minutes.

Between going dark and trying to outshine the OM, I think that I'm going to go with the outshining. If what she said about never thinking about me at all when we're apart is true, I can't see how going dark is going to do anything but be harmful, and put me completely out of her mind.

So, now the next step is to work on me even more. I'm shopping around for a gym to go to, which is a big deal for me. I've never been the athletic type- more of an intellectual than anything else. Exercise has never appealed to me (probably because it reminds me of how uncoordinated I am), but I'm tired of feeling down on myself about my spare tire. I had already done the new clothes thing and the cologne, with no (outward) response. I've been having the outside of our townhouse painted, and hung some pictures up inside which, curiously, made me feel better about me. I've been hanging out with some lodge brothers a bit more which helps to ease the loneliness somewhat. I still wish I could get out of the habit of living my life for the Sundays when W comes over and I get to see her. I NEED to get out and do other stuff, but I'm just not motivated.

I'm going back to my counseling appointment tomorrow evening, even though W is not going to be there. Counselor seemed to think it was worth it for us to meet again this week instead of next week, even though I won't be seeing W again until next weekend. Maybe the counselor picked up on something during the W's session that sheds some light on my sitch and wouldn't wait another week? Who knows. I guess I'll find out tomorrow...

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the props, Ready.

Speaking of the W testing me- I had a taste of this back several weeks ago when, after several weeks of making the bed up before she came over, I decided to not make the bed once to see if she noticed, or if it even made a difference to her. Man, I never imagined getting the response I got. She walked into the bedroom, and with a triumphant voice exclaimed, "HA! Caught you! You didn't make the bed!", as if she had caught me with my hand in the cookie jar or something. I played it off like it was no big deal, and we made the bed together, but it really threw me off that it would be that big a deal to her esp. considering that we never made the bed when she was still in the house!

I guess the moral of the story is to be vigilant, because you never really know for sure what makes a difference in her mind......