First; Please, please keep in mind that I am neither a counselor nor a therapist of any kind. I have a background in nuclear power (navy and civilian) and am currently a researcher in the area of astronomy: so purely engineering and 'hard' sciences. I'm also somewhat obsessive in that once I latch on to a topic of interest, I dissect it as thoroughly as possible -- but I'm no professional at it. So around here, just consider me a smarta$$ with a keyboard, and treat my posts with ample skepticism.
On your current situation:
You've made tremendous progress this year, and should be commended. You've had your walk through the Valley of Fire, and have emerged on the other side ready to make positive changes. The letters form of communication was a great idea, and has led to nice results -- you've got him understanding things better, and willing to work with you towards finding solutions. This step -- getting your spouse's attention and getting them on board -- is the most crucial, and a bottle-neck that many who post here get stuck on.
I honestly think that the best thing you can do now is to get the both of you into a counseling program with a certified sex therapist. Just make sure that you approach this as a couple's problem. WE are going to this therapist to help us with OUR problems in our sexual relationship. You aren't going in order to "fix" him -- if he gets that vibe, he's going to be very reluctant. Reading The New Male Sexuality (TNMS) may help him to realize that (a) he's far from alone in such problems, and (b) there are solutions readily available. Sex therapy is often relatively short (months to a year or so) and quite effective, compared to other forms of therapy.
A note on the pornography thing:
I think you and DQ have it right. Having sex with YOU comes with a load of emotional baggage from the past and lots of performance anxiety too (if not erectile problems, then PE, and who knows what else...). Rather than going through all that, he can have a quick and relatively 'painless' release by himself. So you can see the appeal.
However, I wouldn't be too quick to criticize his viewing porn as a means of stimulating his libido in preparation for being with you. Viewing erotic material for this purpose is actually recommended for folks in his LD situation (see TNMS, and I think The SSM also mentions it).
Remember that: erection =/= sexual arousal
Erections are mechanical, and can be stimulated into being without much sexual arousal (especially with a pill). Real sexual arousal is mental, and that's what he really needs to be working to achieve in the bedroom with you. Yes, sexual arousal and erections usually go hand in hand, but don't equate them. If he's really looking at porn to help get his MENTAL arousal going, then I'd encourage it, not discourage it. Yes, I understand that the ultimate goal is sexual arousal from YOUR stimulating appearance or actions, but for now, you come with pressure and baggage. In this context, I would consider the porn to be a "crutch" of sorts, that he can eventually drop when he can walk on his own.
Best regards,
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/13/0806:45 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I know Bagheera is right to some extent re: the porn...but Silverado...I hope you also saw Cinco's post to you about porn. Not to disregard what Bagheera is saying, but Cinco's point is VERY IMPORTANT.
Yes, I hear what Bagheera is saying, but I'm not sure *I* can tolerate the porn as a ST method. He has used porn for out entire marriage and I have NOT liked the result.
1)It is for me the OW in our R. 2)It hasn't made him want "real" sex any more now than it ever has. Once the screen goes dark. All erotic thoughts dissipate within pretty short order...no lingering effects.
I found Cinco's testimonial very enlightening. I think it will be detrimental to reintroduce porn here. Our lack of previous connection--emotional divorce--will not be remedied in this fashion, I'm afraid.
But, please, keep up the great feedback.
BTW Bagheera, it's COOL that you work in the astronomy field!!! I have a neighbor whose name I'm sure you would recognize. He is old now, but in the day was a pioneer in the field of telescopes and has built several large ones for the McDonald observatory.
It's not an easy thing to quit porn. My wife complained to me about this on numerous occasions too and each time I would promise to stop and then secretly pick it back up again. Porn is a crutch for a married guy just like a drink is for an alcoholic. It's the easy way out when things aren't going so well in the bedroom. From the first time I was caught until I finally stopped was about 8 years. Used the stuff for about 19 years of married life. Porn-free now for 4 months and counting, sadly it is one day at a time.
As a single guy, I had the small pile of mags. When I got married I threw them all out thinking, "Never need to look at one of these again." Then after about 3 years of marriage I bought a mag here and there (coinciding with beginning of a SSM). The good thing about printed stuff is that it is much harder to hide so it limits the addictiveness of it. Video tape isn't all that small either. Then damn AlGore had to go and invent the internet. With a little computer savvy you could erase all traces of surfing for porn. You don't even have to pay for any of this stuff if you know where to look for the samples... even video clips are free. New stuff available daily... very easy to feed an addition this way.
This is at least part of the problem in your M. You may be right that it might take ST to get past this. It may not be easy, but it can be done.
I can fully understand where you're coming from on the pornography issue, and support it. I was simply going on my own experience, where last fall, my wife was desperately looking for ways to boost her own libido in order to start improving our sexual relationship, and started to secretly view pornography herself. It had a beneficial effect not only on our sexual frequency, but also on our sexual quality and repertory -- and by the time I found out about it, I could only applaud it. She doesn't view it as often now as then, but it can still help her to break herself out of non-sexual Mommy-mode on occasion, when she feels like she's reverting to old, bad habits. But my sitch ain't your sitch, so I'll trust your judgment there.
Another thing that you might want to consider, and a therapist could help unravel is this: do you think he might have a Madonna-Whore syndrome going on? In other words, while he gets turned on by the thought/image of some 'other' woman doing nasty things with a man, does he have trouble imaging/desiring his OWN WIFE, whom he loves, doing such things? This is one way that the "Nice Girls Don't" syndrome manifested itself in a guy. He might even truly want you to be that way, but feels incredibly ashamed of asking for it or actually enjoying it, and therefore has severe arousal problems because of that shame/guilt. Just a thought.
My main advice remains:
Originally Posted By: Bagheera
I honestly think that the best thing you can do now is to get the both of you into a counseling program with a certified sex therapist. Just make sure that you approach this as a couple's problem. WE are going to this therapist to help us with OUR problems in our sexual relationship. You aren't going in order to "fix" him -- if he gets that vibe, he's going to be very reluctant. Reading The New Male Sexuality (TNMS) may help him to realize that (a) he's far from alone in such problems, and (b) there are solutions readily available. Sex therapy is often relatively short (months to a year or so) and quite effective, compared to other forms of therapy.
Take care,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
You know, I've considered that a possibility. And believe it or not, we have even discussed this and he thought it sounded ridiculous, and assured me that it wasn't the case.
However...there may be something there to which he may be in denial. I stand by your ST suggestion....let ME find that woman's number!
You know, I've considered that a possibility. And believe it or not, we have even discussed this and he thought it sounded ridiculous, and assured me that it wasn't the case.
However...there may be something there to which he may be in denial.
You can get a clue from his parents / upbringing. If he had a strongly conservative upbringing, with a 'proper,' upstanding mother (remember the posts where I discuss my own puritan mother?), then the "Nice Girls Don't" pathogenic belief may be nicely embedded, even if he doesn't realize it on the surface.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
"... the most difficult, but most important step that we ALL have to take in repairing a long-term SSM is to get beyond our own anger, resentment, and bitterness, in order to actually work at solving the problem. For example, if your husband sees you as "that angry woman who nags at me all the time," then he's not likely to want to change anything -- he'll dig in his heels instead. Getting beyond all that old baggage usually takes months of dedicated Get-A-Life (GAL) work: Learning to be less dependent upon HIM for your happiness, and learning to find your own happiness within yourself."
This comment is so dead on target. I have been watching my H "dig in his heels" for almost three months now because I've been in so much pain and acting on my pain instead of what my brain has been learning from thess boards.
An interesting note: Today, I was hypnotized by my therapist. I specifically told her, again, that I wanted to save my marriage, and she listened. I told her I wanted to get rid of the pain and anxiety and the behavioral problems that I was chosing to hold onto as a result of those feelings. And she did it. I was crying going into the process, and the calmness that I feel now has lasted since lunchtime.
Silverado- My H views porn and hides it from me-like you, it feels like an affair to me.
Have you thought about having nude and or semi/nude and suggestive pictures taken of YOU? It's something I've been considering, either having H take them or surprising him with a professional layout.
Guys, what is your input on this? How would you feel if your wife presented you with soft porn pictures of herself? Do you think that's what you would turn to on the nights that you just wanted a quick release or do you think porn would still have it's place?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
With a little computer savvy you could erase all traces of surfing for porn. You don't even have to pay for any of this stuff if you know where to look for the samples... even video clips are free. New stuff available daily... very easy to feed an addition this way.