I hear you on not getting defensive. But sometimes I know things would not be said or even thought of if my h were around. Others would not judge my parenting. They seem to think they can just because I am a single mother.
I just hope to show my ds an idependent smart woman and be a good role model. I have not dated and will not bring another man around him unless it is serious.
I haven't read this entire thread, but I can't help but say something... and this is definitely IMHO..
The reason I came to this website is because I didn't want my kids to be a product of a divorced family. I wanted to stop my divorce because I believe in family.
Have I found positives, heck yeah, but don't lose sight of the fact that divorce is hard on families either....
It really can be both answers. By knowing the factors and the issues surrounding busted families, I would hope that WE could figure out how to divert some of those problems.
But overall, the problem still exists.
My kids did miss out on being proud of their dad. It is HIS fault and definitely a result of our divorce. It doesn't mean they didn't see their mom be stronger, but it is something they didn't get.
Even though we survive and THRIVE, we don't have to say that divorce is good....or at least, that's why I joined way back when...
Everything is different, when they graduate, marriage, grandkids.. .different then I would have hoped for, but, in the end... it's life and will be fine because we can make it fine.
Of course divorce is not "good." None of us would say that and in fact most of us would agree that it's bad--for everyone involved (with the exception of the damn lawyers).
We live in a throw away society and do not pay the due respects to the the people we pledge our loyalty to, or the children we promise to protect, or the earth we live on for that matter. I hate the wastefulness of our society.
I came here to save my marriage too. I closed my heart and eyes and ears to any talk that would even whisper a hint that my marriage would end in divorce. I looked only to success stories and never visited the divorced forum. I could not accept it. But I was powerless to make it stop--he was determined to leave and start a new life and he never looked back. The longer I denied the possibility of a divorce, the longer it took for me to find the resources I needed to help my children.
Unfortunately, I did end up divorced and I am glad Steve pointed me to the uptoparents website because, even though I SO did not want to follow the advise (because I thought it meant I was giving in) I did recognize it was best for the kids.
A lot of us got a big wake-up call when our beloved spouse left us. Regardless of the problems in the marriage, we did not deserve what we got--a horrible and painful shock that we didn't see coming. It was, without a doubt, the most agonizing pain I have ever experienced.
BUT, because of the wake-up call, I was able to take a deep, hard look at myself and make the changes I needed to make. These changes and the new things in my life are the silver linings.
I will never say I am glad Mitch left or that it was "good" that we got divorced, but I will say that I am proud of myself for picking myself up off the floor and finding a reason to live and move forward. I pat myself on the back for helping my kids get through it too.
Of course there are the extreme cases--the abusive, alcoholic, sociopath types--but that is the exception rather than the rule--I would NEVER tell anyone to stay in a situation like that and would, in fact, probably encourage and help them to leave it.
Anyway, no one is saying Divorce is good or wonderful or desirable--we are just saying that when we are faced with the reality of it, we can choose to make the best of it. Many of us have resorted to a refrain that (I think) keeps us trapped in a false reality: "love is a choice." We can control ourselves and we can love them, but that won't bring them home. They will make their choices independent of us. Moving on and living a happy life is a choice too--we don't have to choose to hang onto someone who has told us a hundred differnt ways they don't want to be with us anymore.
Hey, when life gives you lemons, what are you gonna do with 'em (perhaps stuff them in your bra )?!!
I will never say I am glad Mitch left or that it was "good" that we got divorced, but I will say that I am proud of myself for picking myself up off the floor and finding a reason to live and move forward. I pat myself on the back for helping my kids get through it too.
I agree with you, MMO. I think the idea that a really bad thing was turned into a positive in some ways (not all) but our efforts, the grace of God, our children's resilience, etc... is s/t I'd agree with. I'm glad that we've recovered and that we're moving forward with life.
There are still times I realize things like "I can't afford to give him that" or "We'll have to do without" or "I'm too exhausted to do this with him" but that's okay. It is what it is, as someone put earlier. And doing the best one call is all that's called for.
Importantly, that's an incredibly valuable lesson for one's child to see modeled by a parent.
BTW, I don't think SG was trying to say our kids are doomed due to being of D'd parents. She's merely quoting the data that shows some scary stuff like higher rates of teen pregnancy, alcohol and drug use, depression and lower rates of academic success in kids from split homes.
I will say that there is no clean data on children of D'd parents as dedicated and family-focused as DBer's. Now THAT would be a story to tell! And my guess would be that the story would have some differences that the general D/d population. Further, I'd love to see what happens in the Ms of our children.
Many of us have resorted to a refrain that (I think) keeps us trapped in a false reality: "love is a choice."
MMO, could that be a shot across the bow?
I don't disagree with what you said after that, but I find the one to be non sequitur with the remainder. In the end, it is the choices we make that matter.
But the point is that some would argue that because they have managed to make the best out of their unfortunate circumstances that the D was a blessing and by extension insinuate that D itself is a blessing to them and their children. To advocate divorce in general, without specific and conscientious disclaimer, is anathema to the foundation of DB, IMHO. So I do see where SG is coming from.
There are countless other books in today's world that laud the rampant divorce rate and trumps up the splitting of families as a great benefit to all spouses and to their children. And I'm sure they too have their book-related forums and discussions -- this is not one of them. I am not saying that anyone is doing so here, but it certainly borders on it.
One can make the argument, maybe, that if one is actually better off after divorce then that was not a real marriage after all -- and they might should never have been married in the first place? Perhaps?
And believe me, I do understand, personally, that the decision is more often out of one's hands. It still does not absolve us entirely of our own commitment.
No, divorce is just a sad concession to the hardened hearts of mankind, but it is not what was intended.
exactly.... we have overcome, but can we honestly say (after the reasons why we came here in the first place), that we are better off? what if we our spouses hadn't have flaked out and we had been able to develop our marriages and certainly grown to what we are now? realizing that some of our strength came from what happened to us, it could have also been there if things were the way they should be, i would hope.
i guess, part of what i'm saying is that even though my x is still out in friggn' la la land, wouldn't it have been better if he turned out to be who i thought he was and have my family intact? yep... sorry...
it takes nothing away from what i've done and what i've created for my kids, only reinforces it more.
but, i will "stand" and say that divorce is bad, especially for the kids and we of all people should be saying that we came here because we thought that.
unpopular as it is, just because i'm surviving doesn't mean i forgot why i was here.
i would also suggest that part of the reason why the people on this board have done so well and been so good for their kids is because they had the integrity to see that this was not something good for families, nor that they wanted the divorce. the basis for that alone makes the people that even show up here heads above the rest.
with that said, if we hadn't had the forthought to be against our divorces, we would not have found each other and helped each other. we would have been like anyone else, just accepting.
exactly.... we have overcome, but can we honestly say (after the reasons why we came here in the first place), that we are better off? what if we our spouses hadn't have flaked out and we had been able to develop our marriages and certainly grown to what we are now? realizing that some of our strength came from what happened to us, it could have also been there if things were the way they should be, i would hope.
i guess, part of what i'm saying is that even though my x is still out in friggn' la la land, wouldn't it have been better if he turned out to be who i thought he was and have my family intact? yep... sorry...
it takes nothing away from what i've done and what i've created for my kids, only reinforces it more.
but, i will "stand" and say that divorce is bad, especially for the kids and we of all people should be saying that we came here because we thought that.
unpopular as it is, just because i'm surviving doesn't mean i forgot why i was here.
i would also suggest that part of the reason why the people on this board have done so well and been so good for their kids is because they had the integrity to see that this was not something good for families, nor that they wanted the divorce. the basis for that alone makes the people that even show up here heads above the rest.
with that said, if we hadn't had the forthought to be against our divorces, we would not have found each other and helped each other. we would have been like anyone else, just accepting.
again...jmho
I totally agree with what Frosty said!!!!! That's why she's my idol!
Well, since I think that anyone in most any of the forums on this bb would probably agree that divorce sucks and hurts children, reminding us of it so zealously seems unnecessary.
You're preachin' to the choir.
I see so many people hanging on, year after year. Their children are miserable...why? Because the LBS will NOT let go and insists, because of a misplaced sense of loyalty, on dragging their kids through their own disappointment and loss every day.
What a terrible thing to do to the children.
Is love really a "choice." I tried to chose not to love my husband. He was cruel and betrayed me and turned off to me like nothing I've ever seen or thought possible. It sure would be easier if I could simply unlove him, but lo and behold...despite the pain he inflicted, my heart loves him--I tried not to, honestly I did, but it seems not to ave been a choice that could stick. I do not "chose" to love my children, I can't help loving them. I do however choose to stay committed and honor my word.
Quote:
Many of us have resorted to a refrain that (I think) keeps us trapped in a false reality: "love is a choice."
What I meant by that was that I see people still trying to convince their WAS's that they can "choose" to love them. Believing that the WAS is simply being stubborn, even YEARS after they have left and in some cases even remarried, is not honorable--it is desperate and sad. It is misplaced loyalty if you ask me and does way more damage than working toward accepting the reality of the situation and moving on.
If by some miracle the WAS does come to realize he wants you back and you, by some great stroke of forgiveness and grace can let bygones be bygones and trust again, then, well, hallelujah. Awesome. The fact, is, it is VERY rare. Trying to cling on, with bloody fingertips and all, wishing them back while to the rest of the world it is obvious they have moved on, is harmful. Sure, it's fun to call the OP names (God knows Jackie got some doozies from me and my friends here on the board when we needed a good Adulteress bashing session), but continuing to berate the person, years into the future means someone needs a serious reality check (and I don't mean our ex husband or his former mistress, now wife!). The kids need a normal life and do not need to grow into middle aged men and women still calling their step mom a home-wrecker and tramp and whore etc (of course we all know who she is and they probably do too, but no point perpetuating the negative).
The trick is--how do we comfort them without becoming a proponent of divorce? I HAVE to help my children feel as normal and loved as I can--I HAVE to help them get beyond feeling like a "victim" and the only way I know to do that is to have an open and honest dialogue with them. I have tried to balance letting them know their daddy loves them without making them feel he is a villain for leaving us and divorcing me. I HAVE to also let them know that it is NOT okay to break their word or dishonor people they care about or cheat or lie. If that means discussing, to a limited extent, the situation of their own father, then I will do that without bad-mouthing or berating him. I believe in hon esty and open communication with the children and I think the "damage" comes when we make tem feel they have to walk on eggshells or when we make them feel this is not their business or concern because truly there is nothing else in their life that is MORE their concern and they have a right to understand the truth without us asserting our own agenda or anxieties.
Anyway, kinda rambly tonight--I was up until 7 am designing a new sweater which is gonna be AWESOME!!!!!
Love, Althea
p.s. I LOVE being able to stay up until 7 in the morning without being judged or picked on for being an eccentric artist. I'm not "encouraging" divorce, just trying to find the silver linings in my situation.
Well said Althea! It is all about balanced and honest communication. IMO I think the "daddy is sick right now but one day he will get better" school of thought is actually very damaging to children.
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