On the bumpy road towards found...

[iamlost]

Well, my thread locked up (links in my sig) right when I messed up on my DBing--hey, thanks Mods! Now we can brush all that under the rug (just kidding)...

Recap of my sitch: H and I are both in our early 30's, have been together 5.5 years, married 3, no kids, 2 cats. We have been separated about 3.5 months now, largely due to pretty serious issues that I talk about here and here.

H has basically lost faith in himself and our R, also marriage itself, and is depressed and acting out. Since we separated, he has had a long-distance aborted EA, and a short-distance (?) aborted PA that involved kissing an old girlfriend (who knew him prior to his issues) and no sex.

H was out of state visiting his family for about half the time that we've been separated.

We have currently agreed to move towards some kind of legal separation or even D, and have been in several discussions about it for the past week or so. We are also trying to be friends, and we are supposed to "hang out" on Wednesday.

I've been inconsistent with my ability to DB like a champ, but I am getting better, and starting to really recognize where I've gone wrong. It's definitely a work in progress...

I've been pretty good with GAL stuff, taken up running, creative projects, charitable activities, spending a lot of time with friends and trying to challenge myself with things (like taking an improv class).

Detachment I'm still struggling with, but I am at the point where I believe I will be OK if it ends up we can't reconcile our R. I just don't want that to happen is all.

I think that's the gist of it...

[JWS]

Glad that I found your new post quickly, I just wanted to say put that 2x4 away. You are still the Db Ninja. That kind of situation with him being so cold but actually talking about real issues is going to be hard for any of us. I think you handled yourself to the best you were able in that situation and that is all we can ask for. And like I did last night your screw up was telling him you love him and want him. We all know that is not the best for us right now but I would much rather error on letting them know that then not.

One thing that you have shown me is that you learn from your setbacks very quickly and every time you are not impressed with your own performance you hit the next one out of the park. Also remember that both your emotions were very high and it was not easy for him either, I am sure that he also said things that he is regretting.

Keep working that insurance issue, you deserve and need it and it may keep you in some sort of separation rather then D. At the very least you can use it to ask for more time to thoroughly research other insurance options.

Just hang in there, I KNOW that you will be just fine if this does not go the way we all want it to, so since you have that to fall back on to, you can give a lot more of yourself to this.

[JWS]

one other thing, i posted on my thread very late last night that we had similar days, I just meant we had both not acted the way we meant to, I was not trying to minimizes your VERY hard day by comparing it to my little hard day, sorry if it comes across that way.

[iamlost]

Hey, hard days are relative. Pain is pain, IMO. Don't ever worry about comparing our lives--I find it comforting. It helps to feel like we're all in the same boat, even if other's situations aren't exactly the same.

[JCJ]

Hi Lost

Sorry for my lateness in posting to you! I'm going to go back to your talk on your previous thread.

In retrospect, I should have called the whole thing off cause I'm sick with a cold. And probably PMSing to boot. BAAAD combo.

Seriously, are we twins?! I'm exactly the same, have a stinking cold and PMT and really pleased now that my h did cancel the weekend. I think we need to be in tip top conditions for these interactions. Don't ever be afraid to put him off in future. You need to be at your best to handle these things.

We don't have insurance over here som I am not really familiar with the system - is it something to do with medical care?? I take it that it is important anyway. Sometimes I know that with my h we have fundementally different ideas attached to the importance of some issues and he really doesn't get how important something is to me unless he can see how I would be negativly affected by not having it. I think you did a good job in explaining that you needed it and that is why he agreed as he could see you reasoning. He showed empathy for you.

So, we kept trying to talk about this stuff for another hour or so (we just should have stopped waaaay before), but kept getting off track and fighting because both of our emotions were so keyed up. Finally, I said something to him in an exasperated voice, and he just blew up and walked out, saying, "THIS is why I left!"

That's ok, you'll know for next time when to just stop. When it gets past a certain point, then do something to end the conversation. Men can't take going over and over something without a solution, they eventually back off and do something to end it themselves. That is all his hurtful comment was. How very interesting though that he was waiting in the car round the corner!

And I ask why, and he says, "I just have too many insecurities and issues that I can't burden another person with, plus you add on the expectations of having children and building a house (which were our dreams, that he felt he couldn't reach) and it just becomes impossible for me."

I don't have an answer for this because as you know my h struggles with the same thing. My main focus with regards to this is something Sage said in that post you referred me to that the spouses need to feel pride in returning to their relationships. Guilt and shame are poison to relationships and somehow we need to find a way to alleviate some of those feelings bit by bit.

And I said, "but I don't care about that. I just want you." And he says, really incredulously, "Why?!" And I said, "Because I love you. Because I've been walking around feeling like part of me has died for the last four months." I wanted to say, "Because you're my soulmate," but I just didn't have the guts.

It's funny because I can understand why they are incredulous that we still feel this way. It is because they are ruled by shame and guilt IMO. They can't see the bigger picture, they just see their actions.

Lost, I think you did really well overall. You handled it like a champ! I also agree with Pisces that this all screams that he doesn't want it, he just doesn't know what else to do.

[iamlost]

Seriously, are we twins?!

Yes.

We don't have insurance over here som I am not really familiar with the system - is it something to do with medical care??

Yeah, unfortunately, if your job doesn't provide you insurance for medical care here in the U.S. (which mine doesn't, didn't think I needed it when I took the job because I was covered under H) it's REALLY, REALLY expensive, like hundreds of dollars a month. Since we've separated our finances, and I'm responsible now for all my own living expenses, I can't afford it.

Men can't take going over and over something without a solution, they eventually back off and do something to end it themselves.

Agreed. He's really impatient right now about finding some kind of closure because he thinks it will make him happy. He's also, as he's told me, "dealt with loss before."

I know that we're not supposed to analyze our spouses or our childhoods, but I do think these things come into play. I believe the idea that as adults we recreate the same patterns that we grew up with, looking for resolutions.

My H had a difficult childhood, his parents divorced when he was 7, and his dad basically abandoned the family at that point, both physically and financially (it's debatable whether he was ever there emotionally). His mom really struggled trying to raise him and his brothers on her own. H remembers eating microwave popcorn for dinner at times, because they didn't have any other food. She drank to ease the pain, but was never at the point of alcoholism. She's a great woman, and did the absolute best she could.

H's father waltzed back into his life in his late teens, and although I've grown to love his dad, he's objectively not a very nice person or father. He has a bad temper, a mean sense of humor, and few emotional skills. He's feared more than he's loved, and in this way, I'm glad that he wasn't around when H was growing up. H's brother's pretty much hate him, but H insists that there's no point in being angry with him.

His father has tried to make up for his lack of being a father with belated material gifts to his sons, ALL of which have strings attached.

All of this I think factors into the dynamics of H's issues (including sexual ones), his insecurities, his wanting to run--he desperately doesn't want to hurt me, but can't help himself almost.

I know some of you have probably been thinking, given all these issues plus the other ones, why did she get involved with this guy in the first place? Why doesn't she run like hell now that's she's got a chance?

The truth is that I see something very special in my H, and I think everyone--everyone--is damaged in some way, including me. He's the first man I met that I truly wanted to marry--because he inspires me. He has a lot going for him, including being extremely handsome, intelligent and one of the most interesting and witty people I have ever met (a survival skill he's honed to perfection). In some ways, I worship the ground he walks on, and he used to feel the same way about me.

He has so much potential, WE have so much potential, that I want to see him set free of his chains. Unfortunately, I think I've added some chains, and I OWE him taking those away as well. My own family dynamic has created in me a person who wants to help, fix, rescue, stick with people against all odds, but is also judgemental and desires control, and has a lot of insecurities as well. (See? Damaged, too.)

How very interesting though that he was waiting in the car round the corner!

Yeah, he knew I was going out to get some wine. He tried to play it off, not very convincingly. Actually, the more I think about it, I think me telling him I was going to get some wine set him off more than me being exasperated--see above comment re: his mom. The idea that he might be driving me to drink makes him crazy with guilt, he hates the idea that I might "drink alone".

And I ask why, and he says, "I just have too many insecurities and issues that I can't burden another person with, plus you add on the expectations of having children and building a house (which were our dreams, that he felt he couldn't reach) and it just becomes impossible for me."

My main focus with regards to this is something Sage said in that post you referred me to that the spouses need to feel pride in returning to their relationships. Guilt and shame are poison to relationships and somehow we need to find a way to alleviate some of those feelings bit by bit.

And I said, "but I don't care about that. I just want you." And he says, really incredulously, "Why?!"

It's funny because I can understand why they are incredulous that we still feel this way. It is because they are ruled by shame and guilt IMO. They can't see the bigger picture, they just see their actions.

The only thing that I can think to do is keep standing, and not abandon him. But I feel like it's like trying to fight a hurricane or something--HOW do I battle his past, the pain in our relationship? The man had some seriously complicated walls built before I even came on the scene. I was invited behind them somewhat, but now he's catapulted me over to the outside again.

I just feel tired today.

Sorry for the HUGE post. Had a lot on my mind, I guess.

[JWS]

Ok take two, I had just finished a reply to you when my foot bumped the surge protector and my computer shut down.

I know what you mean about being tired, I feel exhausted today. Sometimes I read you post and it like you are in my head saying how I feel but with different words. I agree that to understand a person you do have to look at their background.

Right now my W and I are falling right along family lines if you will, all the major differences in how we were raised are the differences we are facing now. I too have been told to get out now while I have the easy excuse but there is not a chance in !@#$ that I will do that and I am glad you wont either. Despite all of this I still worship the ground she walks on, only now I don’t do it blindly, and it is more based on her potential then actions.

Have you heard Jimmy Buffets “Breath in Breath out move on” you are fighting a hurricane and if it does not kill you it makes you stronger. Not even the worst hurricane out there has ended the world. Remember you have two huge assets on your side, God and Time. Three if you count this website.

I absolutely hate being an outsider to a life that I was once the most intimate part of and I know you do too.

Do you think that he has really worries or guilt about you drinking and if so that could be a 180 for you? I am not at all saying there is anything wrong with it but if you felt it would relieve even a little of his guilt it might be a good thing to show him.

What did you mean about “dealt with loss before”

[iamlost]

Do you think that he has really worries or guilt about you drinking and if so that could be a 180 for you?

If I drink with other people, then he's completely fine with it. I think he has guilt about me drinking only when I am by myself, upset about something. He told me in the last four months point blank that it reminds him of his mother, he feels like he is putting me through the same pain that his D put his M through, and he wants to end our M now, before there is even more time lost and damage done. He's "saving me," like I guess he couldn't save her, and is quite exasperated and angry that I'm still in pain, despite his ah, efforts.

The ironic thing? He drinks far more than I do, and often enough by himself.

What did he mean about “dealt with loss before”

I think he meant he dealt with his dad pretty much abandoning them, losing all his friends, moving, and losing all their money when he was 7.

BTW, I just wanted to add that as bleak as I make things sound, H and I always had a LOT of fun together, both inside and outside the bedroom. Despite the dissatisfaction of an non-ending that our ML often had, H is a great lover, and we are very attracted to each other, to this day. My attraction for him has never waned once, I've never been "bored" with him.

Not sure why, but I felt I need to let you all know that!

[JCJ]

Hey Lost

Thank you for all your posts tonight, they were really helpful. I've read through yours and have a few comments to make but it is late here now so I'll post tomorrow morning. Just to save you from the sleepless night of suspense, I'm not sure they are terribly interesting

[JWS]

That is ironic with his drinking but still needing to "save you". No one ever said any of this makes sense.

no worries about things sounding bleak, if I wanted to completely undetached (double negative) I could right volumes about how great my W is and I know you could too, it is unfortunate that because of the situation we have all gotten to know each other through the worsted side of our spouses, but I am sure that no one here will ever question why you L him, That you do and you want to save your M, is more then enough, keep your chin up, you are doing great!!