WAW is full steam ahead

[LosingSunshine]

My other thread locked and at such the right time, nonetheless.

So, I when I got home last night for the second time, Ws friend was leaving and shortly thereafter I got approached by W to talk about sitch. She wanted to know my feelings about the sitch, as did I want to know about hers. She also wanted to know why I have been ignoring talking about the sitch and I said because the outcome is always the same. I listened and validated as much as I could. She said that she's as much at fault as I am and repeated much of the reasons why she is so bent on getting a D as before.

The suprise came when I had a decision to make. It wasn't as much an utlimatum from W but basically it was. Get served soon or agree to mediation. Well, I'm no dummy and I know that mediation is what is best for the family and that only the lawyers would win if we go through them. I told her that it is her decision and I cannot control what she wants to do but we both agreed that mediation is the preferable way. She also mentioned that she was gearing up for somewhat of a fight because of her perception of the old me and that the way I have been behaving the past several weeks had confused her. So, it looks like I dodged getting served in the next week or so but now need to deal with mediation. Ugh!

The talk lasted about two hours and whereas nothing changed, yet again, there were several things that we agreed upon.

1. Not to get angry.
2. Keep focus on the kids
3. No friends at the house, just us and the kids
4. Establish boundaries/schedules
5. Keep the process as smooth and non-aggrevating as possible.
6. Be forthcoming and honest with each other

Some interesting tidbits from the talk.

1. She took a few of my statements very emotionally such as: I care for you unconditionally; if this is what you want, I will need to stop caring for you as my wife (not sure if should have said it but wanted to see what the response was)
2. She is very upset about how she has been behaving the past three weeks and is not happy about how she's been neglecting the kids. She is going to stop going out as much and focus on the kids - I see this as more time around the house for my to DB, her to see my changes, and for us to focus on the family.
3. I still am trying to understand more about what she is saying about the comments of independence, happiness, and I can't love you the way you need to be loved. The loving part I told her I understood as given the issues, it would be foolish to expect there to be feelings right now but she still believes that those feelings won't come back, even with time. Regarding independence, somewhat career minded, somewhat her oldself prior to meeting me being very independent, and due to the bad times over the past 2 years, the dependency just wasn't working. She said she felt that I wasn't supportive of what she wanted to do with her career and I reminded her the times that I have forwarded job opps etc.. and was always looking and concerned. I said what probably happened is that the was bad timing with the talks and I misrepresented my feelings or she misinterpretted them.
4. She "hopes" that the D will make her happy to which I replied that I hope she has a lot of faith in her hope.
5. There are other personal/internal issues she's dealing with and she didn't elaborate much on those other than that she's confused.
6. She agreed that she needs to seek counseling for her issues but refuses to delay D while she seeks counseling.
7. W brought up how her parents always took time with them to do things even though they had deep rooted issues that led to their divorce. She feels that if she is D, she would be able to spend this time with the kids. I told her I understand and asked her how, if she was the "only one" taking care of the kids over the past two years and wasn't able to, how she would accomplish that after a D? She had no answer but looked scared.
8. I got the sense that she's willing to go to a joint session, pressured or not, for my benefit but I said I don't want to unless you want to go for your benefit as well. Something to bring up again in awhile maybe.

I sensed that she's very scared and feels that this is the only option. Because of her stubborn attitude, it is going to take a miracle to get her to slow down. She's scared that I will be angry. She's scared about what the future holds. At the end of the conversation I told her that her happiness is very important to me and if she feels that this is the only way she can be happy, I support her decision eventhough I do not accept or agree with it. I think that left her confused as well. Not sure.

I allowed myself to 180 with the conversation to see what would happen. She sensed a lot of relief and I hope that any reduction in her stress about the sitch will benefit us. If she's truthful about changing how she's been acting the last three weeks and focus more on the kids and not staying out late, that should be good for us (and for my DBing).

I am unsure at this point whether to continue LRT because it is I feel it is not having an impact. I have seen some small signs, like this morning when she complimented me on my new trousers, but given where we are at, should I try another approach? Should I focus on communication, supporting her feelings of her need for independence (WOA, questions about what she wants to do career wise etc...) while I have these next few weeks prior to mediation (no date set but since she's a go-getter with this stuff my bet is there will be a date set by the end of the day)?

I am PMA, GAL and detaching from her but feel like I am losing ground with the communication aspect.

Definitely a low point in the process but I hope the lack of stress on her end will help lift her head out of the fog.

Sandi, SC, Bridge, Christarn, what are your thoughts from the WAW perspective?

Neil, Scott, PDT, FG, SFH, others, was I right to agree to mediation or should I have forced her to serve me? Should I continue with LRT and see what happens or not, as it feels that I shouldn't?

Chris

[Puppy Dog Tails]

LS,

I'm trying to determine something, and I don't have time to read all of your threads and posts. Is there another man involved here?

Puppy

[Neilh23]

Chris.
mediation takes about 2-3 months depending on your schedule. Now, is it for a separation or a straight D?

Here in NY, in order to proceed directly to a D, there needs to be a "reason." is it hte same where you are? and if it's true, what reason could she give?

Remember, you DO have a choice in the matter, and you need to be comfortable (not right word, but can't think of another) with what you sign, simply because it is a life time binding agreement.

Remember, she's just as scared as you are. I think you are correct in your assessment of her. You should know her best.

Try not to discuss the terms of the D with her. Let the mediator do her work. It caused tremendous problems and tension in my sitch when my W and I talked about the terms of the Sep papers because both of you are going to view things differently.

Take your time with everything. Slow it down as best as you can. but use legitmate excuses. think things over before you agree to anything. use the 48 hour rule.

i'm sorry for your sitch. I really am. I feel your pain, but slow it down as best as you can. that's really the only thing i can tell you.

Use the LRT...go dark. stay away from her. Let her see what it's going to be like without you there.

Good luck.

[LosingSunshine]

PDT, I am heading into a meeting and will post more later but no. No OM but may be OW or at least questions she has about her being a lesbian. ????

Chris

[LosingSunshine]

Neil,

I am actually meeting with someone in a few hours to better understand mediation in SD. I do know that it is not for separation but for D. Also, in SD, there is no separation prior to D rule, unless decided so by the judge and the D process can take at a minimum of 90 days after serving the decree to who knows how long depending upon motions, discovery etc...

If I had to choose, mediation is preferable to lawyers given how little financial gain for both of us there is after the equitable distribution of assets and liabilities. Furthermore, I believe even in mediation, we must follow state guidelines for cs, with there being the possibility of variance depending upon agreements.

Right now today, I have been feeling really down about the sitch, moreso than anytime since this began. I feel like I have no control and am trying to look after my best interests. I thought about going dark last night/this morning but with her still in the house, kids involved etc...would that be best? She wants to be able to talk to me, be civil about this etc...and I know based upon her reaction last night to my statement of me needing to stop caring for her as a W and to begin detaching, that going dark will drive her crazy!! Can it work if she stays true to her agreements to change how she's been acting the past few weeks and spend more time at home with kids and no friends at house. If she does, wouldn't it be in my best interest to show her that things can be different and communicate with her etc...? Or since she is still so numb to the idea of trying to make it work, do I completely detach, go dark except for the kids and begin to move on? Ugh!

Maybe I am missing something about the whole "dark" concept. Can you or anyone elaborate or offer advice on this?

I also brought up to her this am that the kids daycare will be having a picnic next week, of which she knew nothing about because I am the one that takes the kids and picks them up. I asked her if she would like to join me and the kids as it is really important that we keep some semblance of a family present for their sake. She didn't say yes or no and I guess it'll be a positive if she chooses to.

Last night during the convo I also asked her if there was an OP to which she replied no. I told her that some of her statements where indicative that there was, based upon xyz readings (trying not to sound accusatory just inquisitive) and said if there was, it would just add another dimension to everything. She wasn't defensive in her response but was rather adamant that there wasn't. Wasn't sure if it was a good idea or not but it fit in nicely with where the convo was so I did it.

Also, my lifeline in the sitch bailed, according to W. Ws mom want's no involvement with the sitch and Ws dad (parents are divorced due to abusive R and alcohol) wants none either but has forked over the $$$ for her retainer.

She is so bent on this and not willing to bend a bit and the kids are beginning to get a sense of what's going on, especially 4D. Argh!

[Neilh23]

Best thing i can tell you is to go dark.....don't even acknowledge her, except around the kids. That's for their sake, not yours

my W was full bore nutso at the start of this..perhaps for the first month or so........kinda hard to describe, but i can tell you're in pain and frustrated by the sitch and how fast it's going.

Why does she want something so fast? What has she said to you about YOU that you need to change? If it's a minimum of 90 days, then you got 3 months. Alot can change in 3 months. Look at my sitch since i got her.....its changed alot in the month or so i've been here.....still not great... but changing.

180's and changes, while some happen overnite, usually involve mini, baby steps to complete the entire turn. It's going to take a while, but you can do this.

see what they say about it there.......

Good luck man...

[LosingSunshine]

Thx Neil! For the most part she said gothing it is more about her. Sbe knows I can change but she is tired and just wants out. About ready for another mtg so i'll write more when I get back to the office.

[LosingSunshine]

Back at the desk but almost time to leave for the day...

I think she wants this to happen fast because that's just the way she is. Take out the trash means now not in 10 minutes. Also, she has typical WAW syndrome...she's tried so hard in the past and nothing changed so she wants out. Also, being that we live in the upper midwest, the time to sell a house is now, not 6 months from now when it's 20 below zero. Of course, there could be things not being told but would rather not think about that right now and add some other "personal issues" that she's working through, well then, it's just a cluster f.

As for things that I can change she really has said nothing other than the first night/bomb drop when she talked about the drinking, helping out with the kids, potential of relocating again just when she is beginning to make friends etc.. The other stuff really revolves around her having felt too dependent, not having a life outside of M, generally not happy, and not loving me the way she feels a W should love a H (due to issues contributing to sitch as well as SSM the past 2 years).

I have turned around everything that I have control over, major issue wise (except for smoking and that will happen soon..but she's smoking now so I got some time) and am now looking at the smaller things like effective communication, hitting her LL like WOA and acts of service etc...but I can't do these if I am dark unless I work it into what I am doing with the kids etc...

I feel the need to talk to her again tonight, if she sticks around to recap the convo from last night. I want to make sure she is serious about mediation and not having the lawyers duke it out because that will be disastrous. I know I shouldn't have this talk but feel that I need to just to make sure we are on the same page, even though I don't want any of it.

Also going to bring up co-parenting counseling and suggest that we look into that immediately. Has anyone done this with their WAW/STBX? If so, what kind of response from your W did you get?

I am just at a sickening place right now. She's lawyered up and I need to ratchet that down to mediation, which I think I did last night but need to verify - but even then it can get ugly. She's scared and afraid. I fear for my M and my kids. I am afraid that if this goes to the lawyers, I'll not only lose my W and M, but my best friend and kids too.

[Neilh23]

do NOT talk to her about it. It will only reinforce the fact she wants out. Trust me on this one man. That's the way it's gotta be. If you talk about it, she'll question her ideas about going with mediation, and then you really could be F'd.

that's what happened in my sitch anyways. The house thing is difficult. I understand. It's hard to watch as your dreams are ripped apart. But you will make it through this.

Just remain calm and go dark. The other stuff wasn't working. Try this. It's a complete reversal of what you've been doing..... which is persuing and only reinforcing the fact that she doesn't feel the same way.

That's really the only thing i can tell you to help save your sanity. If she asks about it, just say you have nothing to really talk about right now.

Good luck.

[LosingSunshine]

Neil, I hear you but I am nervous and scared about going dark but I figure it can't do any more damage. I just want to add to the tension in the house. Will that happen?.
I'll read up more on your sitch later tonight before bed.