W and I had another text exchange where I tried to encourage her to talk some more about her feelings (it is on the last page of the most recent thread).
The only problem was I used the phrase "I'm sorry" b/c I didn't know another way to put things and still be affirming of her feelings. Tomato had a great suggestion of saying "I regret..." instead of "I'm sorry" and that may carry more weight in the future. I'm going to at least give it a shot b/c I also am not fond of "I'm sorry" as, like Tomato, I feel it is overused and often insincere.
D called me yesterday to let me know what she was doing at lunch and then she wanted me to talk w/ W. I told W the painters were coming over on Thursday to paint the house and that I'd picked up paint. She responded w/ "I thought I told you to wait until paint was on sale for the 4th?" Oh, well. I also told her the shower head broke off in the master bathroom and I needed to replace it. She just said "I'm at lunch w/ a friend" and handed the phone back to D. At least I didn't let it rattle me. I just said, "Oh, well. That's W being W" talked w/ D some more and then hung up.
Then I called at my usual time last night, but got the voice mail, so I left D a message. About an hour later, D called me and said "I just wanted to tell you goodnight b/c you didn't call me earlier." I told D to have W play my message for her b/c I did call earlier. D believed me and was no longer upset, but it was nice of W to play my message - or even check for one for that matter - for D, wasn't it.
Oh, well. Just more of Crazy being Crazy.
Today I'm talking w/ my DB coach in a bit and then I'm off to a golf lesson - I'm working on starting my downswing w/ my hips 1st, which is a major change, but one that will help my game immensely.
After that, I'll run some errands, then head home to get ready for my deposition today. I've decided to take a few seconds before answering each and every question to make sure I'm collected and ready. I'm not worried about today, but I am curious as to what they'll try and ask me.
Did you forget what a beast your wife was to you? Isn't this the woman that accused you of all sorts of untrue things? This all sounds to me like a guy that's still looking at his wife to see if how he talks or behaves has an impact on his wife. Personally, I thought you were more at the point where you realized that she is the one that has a lot to prove to you and would have to work to win you back. If that's the case, then I'd suggest you start acting like it. She's just another fish in the sea...internalize that...believe it...and she will notice the difference in you.
My opinion of the text exchange was that it was pursuing to the max, in the wrong direction. You've said your piece, she heard you, move on from the subject. I wouldn't continue to let her rant at you while you take it and say you're sorry. You've almost bought all that crap she's been peddling to you. Remember, she settled all that with the divorce proceedings....why explain further how you've failed so miserably? I'd steer clear of these R talks. Change the subject or just quit texting back. I don't think they clear things up so much as validate her reasons for leaving. If you have to say, "sorry", then it should be "sorry you feel that way."
Last edited by Phoenixdeux; 07/01/0806:29 PM.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Finally I can post to you and say I ECHO WHAT Phoenixdeux says...
I can't lie and I would either have to be mean or try to find the right words which is difficult when I am upset and your darling W makes me furious...!!!
I am sorry I can't be as suportive as you would like me to be, I am not saying you should quit on your hopes for reconcil, I am saying though that there are some things that are not matters of perception. They are objectively BAD/MEAN/GOOD/NICE etc. You are so eager to make her see how good you are, you are reinventing some basic things you should stick to.
I hope I am making SOME sense. If I am not, read again Phoenix's post. It is very clear there. Love ya Maria
I completely agree that I'm only allowing her to hang on to the stuff that she is so angry about. So, as my DB coach and I discussed this morning after I posted, there is no more talking about the past. It is only forward.
You are completely correct. I had a great session w/ my DB coach after I posted and while we both agree that I was affirming, we are no longer going to discuss these past issues as they are used by W to get fired up at me.
Instead, we're going to discuss the past by looking forward - "I sure would do things differently now" or "That was then and this is now." It is funny that as soon as I'm not giving her exactly what she wants in a conversation, she shuts down and ends it like she did on Sunday. Whenever she reaches a point where she may have to stop and process what is happening, she stops all conversation and then acts like it never happened.
However, you are right as I'm done saying I'm sorry. I did that to express to her that I am listening and to be accountable for my part in things. But now my DB coach and I agree I no longer need to discuss my part or take any blame from here on out. I don't want to be pursuing and thus I'm no longer doing it.
I loved your post today, Phoenixdeux. Absolutely loved it! It was so similar to what my DB coach and I discussed that it was almost as if you were on the line w/ us today.
Thanks for your insight and your caring, my friend.
I was just getting caight up here. It was interesting to see that you hold the same feeling re: "I am sorry". To some people I used to tell them that "sorry" was one of my least favorite words in the whole dictionary. It is almost said by some just as filler/fluff when they can't think of anything better to say. It dilutes and bastardizes the whole essence of the word.
I need some sleep. Be well my friend. Give Grace a hug.
Yesterday was my deposition so bear w/ me as this can get a bit long as I try to recap the day's events.
Things went pretty well for me. My L said he didn't see anything in there that I said that was damaging and also didn't feel like they unearthed anything that could prove to be detrimental to me if we end up going to trial.
The only "embarassing" point was when W's L brought up the fact that during a phase where we weren't having a lot of sex b/c of W's pain w/ Endometriosis, W caught me looking at pornography. I admitted it and basically told them we weren't having sex at the time and my L said it was a basic "so what?" My L also salavated at it a bit as he said "I really hope they try to use that at trial. I really do." That made me feel good. Oh, well. Boys will be boys, right?
The other negative was a stupid mistake on my part b/c I had left the dogs in the car the other day and ran into the store w/ D. We weren't in very long, but someone had called the police while we were inside and thus, I was cited for a "criminal" offense. Naturally W's D is going to try and use this against me and my L told me to try and settle custody right away b/c of this incident. I told him not to and I'd take my chances.
I talked w/my neighbor who is a city cop and he told me the court will look to get this off my record quickly and I may have to do community service at the animal shelter or something. So, it won't end up being as big of a deal as my L had feared and I'm relieved at that. I'm going to be contacting the parenting evaluator and sending him a copy of the police report first before my W's team has an opportunity to do so. I'll be pro-active and hit first and hopefully make a good 1st impression.
NOTE: Let me state this - I love my dogs and this was just plain stupid on my part. Both boys are fine and didn't need any medical attention. I had a lot on my mind in dealing w/ D and her drop off that afternoon that I simply assumed they would be fine b/c they had the windows down where they could put their noses out and I had just given them a drink of water a few minutes ago. Again, I'm sick at the circumstances, but nothing I did was in malice toward the dogs. I just erred in this instance and I'll never go down that road again. I've learned a great deal and quite honestly, I made some bone-headed assumptions under pressure that day. I'm thankful they are fine and this won't ever occur again.
I was completely embarassed and ashamed of my mistake which is why I didn't tell you all about it when it happened. It still makes me cringe to think about it.
Anyway, they also had me discuss my "rage" issues and there were my notes in the margins of books where I used the words "rage" and "raging." I don't have an issue w/ "rage" but I do over-react at times in conflict. The issue of "raging" wasn't broached in therapy at the time my notes were written in the margins of those books, so I told them I agreed w/ W's assessments at the time which is why I labelled my actions as "raging."
Her L also was shocked to hear that some of the "notes" W is presenting as evidence were in fact my notes from an exercise in a self-help book on anger management. He thought they were just my own notes and they didn't carry as much negative weight when he discovered it was an exercise. Let's look at this seriously. Do people w/ real anger and rage problems read self-help books and actually do the exercises? The answer is usually not. That fact clearly wasn't lost on her L.
He also began drilling me about the "demands" I put on W and stated in a letter to her. I had told her when I found out about the affair in November that if she didn't end the affair and agree to go to couples' counseling, I'd be forced to try and seek primary custody of D b/c I didn't want our D to grow up in that type of environment. I stated on the record that I did rescind these "ultimatums" b/c I didn't have the right to control anyone. I also said I couldn't reasonably expect her to end her affair.
Her L was shocked that I said this but I explained that I don't have any right to try and control anyone but myself. I don't have to like her choices, but they are her choices to make. He then asked me if I had any proof of her affair and I told him I no longer do b/c I had shredded the e-mails I had previously printed off. He asked me why I would do that and I said that b/c OM had an affair w/ one of his students things had broken off w/ him and W and I thought they were done. Also on the day after Christmas (when I wrote a heart-felt note to W that she's using as primary evidence) W took me to the mall where she picked out a new wedding ring for us. I explained that she had it sized and had them soldered together and had signed for the work on both so I thought that we were going to make it. Thinking this, I shredded the e-mail copies I had.
I did this for two reasons. One, I wanted to get on the record that OM is a snake and two, W said in her deposition that buying the new ring was my idea and that she never received the ring until after she moved out. The record now reflects that there is proof out there that she was lying about the wedding ring in her deposition. W was ticked off at both references. The look I got after exposing OM's affair w/ the student was priceless.
I know it probably wasn't the best form of DBing, but I really couldn't resist as it was my one opportunity to get things on the record in case my D needs to read the real story. I may have completely ended my chances for DBing w/ W, but I have to focus on what is best for D right now and I just feel D deserves to know the truth.
Anyway, they also tried to attack me w/ squandering finances and they asked a bunch of questions as to where the money was and went. I kept telling them that I've given them all the financial information they needed and it is in their hands as I don't know exactly. W's lawyer was a bit surprised to see that every equity line check was deposited into our joint account and not into my account. They questioned the deposits in my account made after I was served D papers and I told them I'll go home and get the information for them. She has nothing on me financially and she's going to be very, very angry when she comes up empty.
I also found out that the car I'm currently driving (a super sexy 1995 Honda Civic) is not completely my W's as she's previously stated. It turns out that we made over $5000 in payments on her car loan after we were married, so it is in fact partly mine. The value of the car is $1500-$2000, so in the end, I won't have to pay her to keep it, but instead she may have to pay me. That too will be so great as she'll again be extremely ticked.
I ordered up a copy of the deposition so I can have it for D's use later on as needed. Again, I feel pretty good w/ how I was able to represent myself, although my L said some of my answers were too long in the beginning. I'm a talker, I guess. I'll need to work on this before this goes to trial.
So that is it for now. I'm sure more and more will unfold, but of course I'll keep you all in the loop.
RTl It sounds like you did fine, remember you were their to defend yourself not DB. I hate to say it but unless you and your W have a great deal of assets stashed away, i think both L's are wrong not to try to get you both to settle without a trail. It is just absurd. Maybe I am wrong but isn't a trail usually for people with huge amounts of money. To my mind both depositions did nothing but make the lawyers more money. I can't imagine that the court would care about any of that nonsense. They just care that the child is taken care of and the assets are distributed. Really, both L's should be putting offers on the table and having you both hash it out. Other than custody, this is all junk. That being said, I am a huge animal lover and a devotee of the show Animal Cops. But if both dogs suffered no ill effect then perhaps you can fight the charge. Like I said before the only winners in this will be the L's. It is so too bad your W does not see this. Obviously her "rage" has clouded her logic.
You are correct as I was there to defend myself and not DB. Overall, I think I did very well too. The reason we deposed W was to counteract her lies and 1/2 truths on the record for the parenting evaluator. The reason she deposed me was most likely b/c she realized how guilty she'd look if she didn't.
We don't have a lot of assets to split, so the depositions were mostly for use by the parenting evaluator in determining our custody.
Finally, I'm an animal lover as well and I'm sickened by what happened. I simply became pre-occupied w/ taking care of D's needs and rushing to finish things before I needed to drop her off. Thus, I assumed the dogs would be ok as they were just watered and had air. In hindsight, it was a bad move on my part, but they are also completely fine.
I didn't do the deal b/c I had a hard time believing this one mistake on my part would overturn everything else especially since the dogs are ok and I don't have a record of any other negligent acts.
I'm on my way to meet w/ an attorney about this today, so I'll try and fill everyone in when I get back -- if I have access to my computer as the house is being painted today.
The bad news is I may be off-line for a while. The good news is I'M NOT DOING THE PAINTING!!!!
W sent a text last night on when she would "allow me" to see D. I hate that she feels she's in control. Anyway, D called me a bit before 7:30 to talk and I couldn't talk w/ her then b/c I had run into a former basketball player of mine from Washington State who I hadn't seen since he was a sophomore in the late 1990s.
So, when I tried to call back less than 10 minutes later, no one picked up W's phone. I noticed she had sent me a text around 7, so I replied to it and then tried to call D twice more until 8:45 pm.
I ended up sending two texts and leaving 3 messages in hopes of talking to my little girl. It isn't fair that W does this to me and it also hasn't been relayed to D that I've tried to contact her. Instead, D thinks I'm not calling her and thus she's hurt.
W isn't acting in D's best interests and it makes me very upset.
