WAW is back (for now?)

[GH31]

Hello guys,

I have a number of threads over in Newcomers which I am keeping current.

Very briefly, my W left on 01/28/2008 and had/is having an A with OM. She cited my cruel and selfish behaviour as a reason to separate and she was right to go. I cannot agree with the A when she hadn't made a firm and final decision to end the M though.

We were living in Germany at the time of all this and OM is in the UK. After coming home for a "reconciliation" in the form a vacation which lasted 9 days before going back to OM, I returned home to Australia saying I wanted order back in my life and that this chaos had to end. I was also adamant that if we divorced there would be no more contact ever out of respect for anyone we marry in the future.

I returned to Australia on 04/30/2008 and W joined me on 05/21/2008 after sending me SMSs and emails saying she was "lost without me" and that "the fog was lifting". She was very sad when she arrived and one week after coming back was SMSing, calling and emailing OM again. OM threatens that there will be no contact between them again unless she goes back to him.

W buys a one way ticket back to UK and says she wants a D. I say "OK that's fine, are you sure you are making the right decision?" and she says "no". I say "do you want me out of your life permanently?" and she says "no, please wait for me until January 2009 as we can't divorce before then anyway". Then at other times W says "I don't believe in divorce" and "don't go with other girls, focus on your career".

I accompany her to the airport on the day she is meant to leave, she checks in her baggage and then she can't let go of me and decides to offload her baggage. Flight is rescheduled for four days later; we stay in a hotel, have fun watching movies, playing games and we ML. Go to the airport again and at the last minute she doesn't board the plane. I tell her "you are in love with OM and hate my guts, it should be a no brainer for you". She reschedules flight once again, calls OM to tell him she didn't make the first one, then mysteriously she doesn't even bother checking in for the rescheduled flight, thereby forfeiting her ticket.

I have been calm, polite, unflappable and a good friend to her through all of this and non-judgmental, but I have told her that D means no more contact between us for all eternity. I also told her if she goes back to the UK to OM then that's the last she sees or hears of me and after everything I have been through I mean it. I would take it as a final decision

After she had spoken to OM at airport I asked her what they had discussed and she snapped saying "never you mind". She has refused to talk about things since and has been very cold, short on words and contemptuous of me. She went ballistic the other day when I asked her "what's different about this time?". I get the gut feeling that OM has ended it as he has also been stuffed around endlessly by her despite being completely in love, but I do not want to get into wishful thinking mode.

She asked me to contact her Dad again to say "we are working things out" and she herself told him that she is "staying put". W has said to me that there will be no more contact between her and OM but I have no way of policing this to ensure that she's telling the truth and if I bring it up it's met with a very hostile reception. I don't want to badger her and spy on her all the time either. On the way home I made an observation that she was being very contemptuous and she said "I will be for a while, I have mourning to do".

She is very very sullen, depressed, cold and quick to anger. I am taking this day by day and am very aware that this could all unravel but she has talked about future plans for us at least at the beginning and end of next month. If this is an affair withdrawal/grief period, how long can I expect this to last? If we can get through this withdrawal period I will use all of my new knowledge and habits to fill that Love Tank of hers up as quick as possible.

The A started at the end of 01/2008 and W and OM lived together from the end of Feb 2008 to mid May 2008. She is/was in love with him and I've seen the SMSs and emails. Given her hostility to interrogation and questions I have completely backed off and am having very little to do with her at present, despite being under the same roof.

If any of you Veterans could give me an idea of what to expect I would be very grateful. I bought her flowers today and a beautifully wrapped box of chocolates (gifts is her LL) but there was hardly a response other than a cold "thank you". Usually she would have been very happy - luckily through DBing I have learned not to take the response personally.

Very interested in your replies.

best,
GH31

[Puppy Dog Tails]

GH,

Given the strong emotional attachment of the affair ("in love"), I think you can expect hard withdrawal for 2-4 weeks, and total withdrawal may take as much as 6-9 months. And that is IF there is no further contact with him whatsoever, which -- given her history of waffling back and forth between the two of you -- is hardly a given.

Personally, I would insist on a very strong "no-contact/transparency" plan if I were to accept this woman back, considing her wayward history. Without 100% no-contact, I have a strong feeling that she will only repeat her back-and-forth moves between the two of you. If she waffles on that, I would tell her that you have no other reasonable reaction other than to consider her still to be in contact with the OM, and I would go completely dark on her since you have no kids.

Can you tell us more about your own behavior, which -- as you said -- you felt made her "right" in leaving you to begin with?

Thanks. I do admire your strong stand on the "this will mean no contact forever between us if we divorce."

Puppy

[GH31]

Hi Puppy,

Thanks very much for your response. I have read your posts to others on here and really appreciate your wisdom and experience.

My behaviour was awful in our M. I used to get angry with my W and say very awful things that hurt her terribly. I would swear at her lots, using the most offensive words in the English language and say things like "if you were a guy, I would punch you for that". I told her always that I wanted her but didn't need her which made her feel unloved and not remotely cherished. Often when we were out shopping or otherwise "out and about" I would shout at her in public and grab her if she tried to walk off, therefore causing a scene. For someone like my W who avoids conflict like the plague and is of a very quiet and mild disposition, this behaviour was deeply hurtful and embarrassing. In other words I was a nasty and verbally abusive jerk. Noone in their right mind would have wanted to stay married to the type of individual that I was.

Also, I was sent to boarding school as a young boy and felt abandoned and neglected as a child. This made me very self-centred in our marriage and I always had the mentality that "noone else gives a damn about me really, other than me". I would look after my own interests and not consider those of W and she often felt like she was not Number One in my life. I wasn't there for her when she needed me when she miscarried twice. This whole ordeal has opened up a Pandora's Box of resentments of the past when I put her second to me which, coupled with longing for OM, makes my sitch a tough one.

My selfishness made me very mean with money and "generous" is the last thing that anyone would have called me, but I have done a big 180 in this area as well as becoming completely unflappable. When I took W to airport she was saying things like "why are you being so good about this GH31, can't you do something awful to make it easier for me to leave you?".

The list goes on!

Fortunately I have taken very drastic measures to cleanse this horrible behaviour and thinking from my being, as I realise that I can never enjoy a wonderful M with anyone in the future unless I do. The problem is that W doesn't see it yet. She has said that she is "just waiting" for me to do something wrong and to "let her down again". She has called my changes "fraudulent and a pretence" at best and "farcical" at worst which actually hurts. I'm not even sure that she likes the new me. I have simply said that I know I needed to change and will maintain it no matter what happens to us.

There you go Puppy, I hope you believe me now when I say I was a total jerk. W has agreed that we never "drifted apart" and that we have always been a "fantastic team" and "extremely close". Our sex-life was always good and we always ML several times per week. The problem was that the awful things that I said and did made her extremely miserable and vulnerable to seeking love elsewhere. In January this year I was constantly aggressive, mean-tempered and hot-headed. She loves being out and about and when I lost my temper time after time whilst being out with her, I bankrupted her Love Bank Account in no time at all. So now I am stuck with much repair work to do and have to take things day by day, knowing that it could all unravel at any time. W is completely overcome and has never had to deal with a situation like this before so doesn't have a clue where to put herself.

Thanks again Puppy, your input is much appreciated!

GH31

[GH31]

Hi guys, this is a post that I have put over in Newcomers. Basically, W had an A whilst we were in Europe and we separated for 4 months. I told her I had had enough chaos in my life and came back to Australia and did not initiate any contact with her - she came back and joined me 3 weeks later and has been here with me for the last 8 weeks under the same roof. W insists that "it's over" with OM but contact through internet, SMS and phonecalls (not sure how frequent) persists. I have exmplained calmly and gently that our M does not stand a chance with ongoing contact and that I am giving very serious thought to leaving myself, but she has said "OM and I will always be friends".

I would really appreciate the feedback of some of you guys, particularly you Puppy. How will I maximise my chances of getting W to the point where she is prepared to end contact for all time? I know that the M stands no chance at all otherwise even though we enjoy each other's company and have regular sex.

Strange happenings.

Yesterday I got home and went online to check my email. W had left her Skype account on by mistake so I opened it with her in the room and discovered a whole host of attempted calls to OM. I said "W I would be grateful if you could tell me what is going on" and she said "we're friends, and we will always be friends"; "can't I call my friends when I want to?". I said "what do you need to speak to him for?" and she said she had a technical question about webcams. That is the biggest load of spew I have ever heard and I calmly (not angrily) said that I know babble and garbage when I hear it.

W insists that it's over with OM and that they have agreed to be "friends". According to her she has "no plans" to go back. She said that they're in touch a couple of times per week and that it's trivial, mundane stuff like what they got up to at the weekend etc. I said "so if it's that mundane then you would have no problem showing it to me then" and she said "no, it's private. Noone else in the family knows about OM and it's private - you know I am a private person GH31". I didn't know what else to say so I simply said that every time they are in touch it's like being raped. We had a long R discussion and I told her what it was like going through the past 6 months saying I didn't expect her to sympathise but it may help her know where I'm at. Without being demanding or judgmental I acknowledged that I had no control over what she decides to do, but explained clamly that her behaviour makes me feel hurt and disgusted, then left the room.

Unable to sleep, I came back into her room at 2am and got into bed with W. She said "yes GH31?" and I said "I want to see how I feel laying next to you. I really don't like this but W, I am beginning to hate and loathe you - you're really beginning to disgust me. All I can think about is divorce and getting out of this marriage - we do not have a single chance at restoring love between us if you're in contact with him". She said that "we could fix things in time" and "are you really beginning to hate me?" but I said "these things will not fix themselves. When are you going to stop avoiding the issues?". This might be bad DBing but for the last few days I really don't care. She avoids talking R at all costs but frankly I don't care whether it "works" or "doesn't work" to bring it up calmly anymore. If this is what marriage is then I do not want a bar of it, and I told this to W. Again, she brought up my past indiscretions and I said "throwing mud at me continuously is NOT going to make me clean. You're throwing it at me faster than I can clean it off - this vengeful behaviour has to stop even if we're only friends from now on". I said let's just get a D and she says "you do it. I don't want to be the one who has to regret the decision" and then "I don't want to have to go through getting divorced". I have told her several times that if I move out of the house then that is the last she ever sees or hears of me. I absolutely mean it and she believes it. Madness. Utter madness.

It went on, then this morning we ML five times and she spoke about a few dreams she has for the future with us about getting a house and having a family. W says she still feels "heavy hearted" and did so before the A because of my angry and selfish behaviour. She doesn't want to say ILY because then she'll have to start saying it all the time (?!). This heaviness of heart has eased somewhat over the past few months but whilst contact with OM persists I see no way out other than to flush this M, something I don't want but I don't know how long I can go on. Contact has to stop and it has to be W's decision but how to arrive at that point I don't know.

I don't know where I have found the strength to get even this far.