I have posted over the years on the SSM board, but I have a question that I thought best bounced off those on this board.
Here is the sitch. Relative of wife left wife of many years and 3 small kids a few months back. Had an affair with much younger woman, also married at the time, and they have both filed, are going through D, and are now living together. Assume for sake of argument that the relative is a great person whom everyone likes and that, while the entire thing was a shock, it was understandable in hindsight based on how much of a serious mis-match they were and how unhappy he was (they had a major SSM and he tried to do things to solve it and she never wanted to, for example).
Here is the issue I am having. While I want to be supportive of the relative, he is already bringing his gf to family events, including a wedding we will be going to later in late July. He has called the hosts of these events to ask if it is ok and they have all said yes. I have told my w how bothered I am by that and that the family should at least say no until the D is final, but everyone seems to think I am nuts and "overly judgmental" for not wanting him to be happy. My response is that even when you like someone, there is still right and wrong.
First of all, am I nuts? Second, the family is not very big so I assume I am going to get introduced to the new gf. Any suggestions on how to handle this?
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Hey Packerfan buddy! I believe one of the problems that we all face is how easily people accept a new person in an R into 'the circle' of family or friends. It would be nice if there was still a better standard of right or wrong in todays society in general.
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Any suggestions on how to handle this?
Talk to relative in advance and share your feelings. Expect to be 'shunned' by the rest of the welcoming family but you might be surprised and they will follow your lead. At the event I would be cordial but not friendly, provide an explanation if/when asked.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Packerfan, You aren't nuts and congrats for having enough spine to call a spade a spade!
One note of caution. Especially at the wedding, this is somebody else's big day. Do not make a scene at this forum. Didn't think you would, but please remember there is a time and a place for everything...
NTE, I agree with you on not causing a scene. We are close to the family of the bride and know that they consented, so it is not my call and I certainly don't want to create any negatives for their family (which would also add the negative of embarrassing my wife). Also, I want to be able to enjoy the day.
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I'm still struggling with this and getting some feedback in my circle of friends that I should tell the relative in advance of the event that I don't approve and don't want to talk to him there, so that I avoid making a scene (which I already know I want to avoid at all costs).
Any other thoughts out there? I would especially appreciate the perspective of anyone who has had to deal with this directly.
Thanks.
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Its great that you think the way you do... kudos to you. But its important that you probably stay out of it. This is somebody's wedding day .. but that doesn't mean that you have to hang around with him. keep your distance and try and enjoy the day.
me: 37 H: 44 Married for 18 years this june S7 S3 porn issues, and much more... since 7/06
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
I don't know YOUR sitch, but I have to assume your wife is walking away or for some similar reason you are really personally shaken up by your relative's actions of bringing the new gf around so soon? Not that you shouldn't be offended otherwise, but I am thinking this must be hitting to close to home, as well?
Anyway, my two cents...
Regardless of what we think of people's actions, don't we owe everyone the gift of not being judgemental? That doesn't mean we must befriend them, nor agree with their actions. But I mean just really really not being judgemental. It is difficult to do, but...doesn't everyone deserve that?
Please don't anyone think I am saying that we shouldn't judge our cheating spouses, or a drunk driver that ran over your mother. I am not talking about specific cases where someone has done something horrific directly to you. That goes above and beyond the judgemental scale anyway.
I just mean that, yeah, the guy is probably short-sigthed in bringing the gf so soon...but it is his life, he has made his choices. You can silently disagree without judging, without condoning, without anyone the wiser. And even if you are introduced to the gf, no one will be expecting you to be the person responsible for making her feel welcome in the family. You can get away with a quick hand shake and not another word all evening, I'm pretty sure.
Thanks for your thougths. Actually, no, fortunately my wife has not done this to me and I have never cheated on her. We are working through SSM issues and I posted here because this is a group with lots of experience with affairs.
Your advice is what I will probably do, but I do want to play devil's advocate a bit.
Isn't part of the reason our standards as a society have declined is because of a lack of a willingness to judge something to be wrong. And by standing by in the face of it, are we not signally a judgement that it is correct?
As an example (and I realize this will make me sound really old even though I am 39), when I was in high school, I hardly knew any guys who had sex and we had two girls in our school get pregnant in my 3 years there. When they did, they suddenly were gone for the rest of the year and reappearred the next year. I later found out that they went to live with relatives and their babies were both given up for adoption. Today, there are a dozen girls pregant at the school at any given time. Instead of a negative stigma being attached to it, they are given baby showers and it is celebrated. While that may seem to be a nicer and less judgmental way to go about things, I think the byproduct is the epidemic of kids having kids.
I realize this is not a perfect analogy, but I see some comonality. If affairs were still seen as committing adultry and shameful, would as many people have them or would they work harder addressing the issues in their marriage that are leading them to the affairs? If a mistress or mister (is that the proper name for the man who has an affair with a married woman?)was still viewed as a "homewrecker" would they be as eager to participate?
A good friend of mine had an EA/partial PA with a coworker a few years ago and after he told his wife that he was leaving her, his family was the most harsh on him. They didn't tell him that everything was great and feel free to bring woman #2 to family events, they told him that he had a responsibility as a man to his wife and that if he chose to not work at it and honor his responsibility, they would not support him. At the time he really resented it and was pretty upset with his family, but after a couple years of counselling and his marriage being better than ever, he is appreciate of what they did.
In the end I will probably just smile, shake hands, and move on since it is appropriate to the occasion. But I will feel like a coward.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
CB - I do see and understand your points. Can I just address your anology real quick? You said:
"when I was in high school, I hardly knew any guys who had sex and we had two girls in our school get pregnant in my 3 years there. When they did, they suddenly were gone for the rest of the year and reappearred the next year. I later found out that they went to live with relatives and their babies were both given up for adoption. Today, there are a dozen girls pregant at the school at any given time. Instead of a negative stigma being attached to it, they are given baby showers and it is celebrated."
OK so when you were in high school, they hushed the girls out of sight and made them feel like lepers, and possibly/probably didn't even give the girls an actual choice of whether to keep the baby or not. And this is "right?"
And nowadays, there are many girls who are preggers and no one cares in a negative way, and their parents are encouraging them to keep the babies and having showers. This is "right"?
Now then lets go back in time about 100 years, when girls as young as 13 years old were FREQUENTLY married to men around 30 years old - right here in our own country - because girls of age 13 were "women", did the work of women, contributed to the family as a wife and woman...back then, this did not seem like children being molested, but as full grown women doing what all female mammals do - comingle and procreate. This is "right"?
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Here is my point: in my opinion, what you are describing is a social phenomonon, no matter which way you look at it. Times change, opinions change, social constructs change, and what is "right" or "wrong" within a society changes.
This will continue to happen, for better or worse, forever. And you can go back in time, and find common social practices that were acceptable in the past which would be abhorrent now. I could give dozens of example.
So how do we really judge what is wrong, right, or just a social passing thing that is right for the next 10 years and will be wrong after that?
For myself, the answer to that question comes from a quiet voice within myself. That voice tells me what is right or wrong. And basically, kindness, forgiveness, and a loving attitude, is ALWAYS right - no matter time, nor place, nor social construct.
You can choose to feel like a coward for not standing up for what is "right" at the wedding. Or you can choose to feel like a hero for being kind and non-judgemental.
Believe me, I know things are very complicated, and the world is not always a loving and forgiving place. But I think that is the point of my quiet inner voice. BECAUSE the world will continue to change and because people have free will, God gave us a still small voice to always turn to for the "right" answer.
