W is now out

[upside_downer]

Here is my "intro thread"

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1456625

Now that the W has moved out (still has some things to get), I suppose I fit in the WAW column.

A couple of questions:

1. Should I get D remedy or DB book?

2. Although I don't know for sure whether there is someone else, many things she does make me feel there could be. Do I even approach the subject with her?

3. After my last post in my intro thread, I decided to sleep on the couch tonight instead of the bed. How is it good for me to be "weak" and not be able to sleep in the bed with her, but it's not OK for me to be weak by talking about the R, or contacting her? Since I don't have the book yet, I don't know where to start with "going dark" or even if that is what I should do?

[JenInVen]

Hi

I think you should read other posts and offer comments when you want. Sometimes you get help by helping.

In response to your questions...
1. YES, YES, YES
2. Don't bring up OM at all.
3. Going dark means that you don't initiate any contact with her. No emails, texts or calls. It also means that you try not to respond to 100% of her attempts at contact. You want her to miss you.

GL

Jen

[Tink]

You're not being weak by picking yourself up by the bootstraps and saying to yourself, You know what? she's leaving me tomorrow. I'm not sleeping in the same bed with her like a weak puppy dog taking any scraps I can get.

Go dark. Remove contact. When she tries to persuade you subtley to stay ("you must do what you feel is right, but I don't think you should have to leave your own bed"), then she is pursuing you. That is the direction you need this to go in.

That happens by you backing off contact, as well as questions about her life.

[upside_downer]

Hi Tink and Jen. Thanks for the posts. I wanted to bring up a situation that we went through only a couple of weeks ago, beforeI even knew of this site or techniques:

I had tried since Nov. to get W to go on vacation with me. I felt we needed it because we were both stressed about the R, and work, and the cold weather. W never really committed to the idea, always had sort of an excuse to not go. After trying a couple times, she finally came to the decision to go on her own vacation with her best friend (her cousin). I was hurt because it was my idea to go on vaca in the first place (and I let her know it). What I was more upset with was that her cousin could only stay Thursday-Monday. W was planning on staying in Fla. until Thursday (by herself).

Obviously, that didn't sit well with me. I decided that if she was going to call me, I would not answer because I felt jaded about her going on the vacation, and I thought that since she chose to go without me, there was no reason for her to call me while on vacation.

That plan totally backfired. She called me daily (the first couple times just to give me a status of where she was since they got delayed on the way there). She left messages and asked me to return her call on a couple of them. I finally texted her on that Sunday/Monday to say "Enjoy your vacation, I'm fine" She tried to call one more time and left a message asking me to "call back when I had a chance" to which I did not respond.

When she returned home, she was upset with me because "I couldn't even talk to her on the phone, when all she wanted to do was have a conversation with her H like normal people do"

Now that I look at this technique of "going dark," I'm obviously concerned with this sort of reaction backfiring on me.

Thoughts?

[Tink]

"When she returned home, she was upset with me because "I couldn't even talk to her on the phone, when all she wanted to do was have a conversation with her H like normal people do""

Hi,

OK first of all "normal people" don't choose to take a vacation excluding their husband. Unless there are other details I don't know about (your/her time off from work availability, etc), there is something very wrong here.

"Now that I look at this technique of "going dark," I'm obviously concerned with this sort of reaction backfiring on me."

It did not backfire on you. She came home upset because she could get a hold of you. This is a productive reaction. In a sense, she was the pursuer now, not you.

I think what happened was you get anxious when she gets angry at you and so you are afraid of her leaving you, so her upset, upset you. But in truth, your going dark worked.

Tink

[upside_downer]

OK first of all "normal people" don't choose to take a vacation excluding their husband. Unless there are other details I don't know about (your/her time off from work availability, etc), there is something very wrong here.

"Now that I look at this technique of "going dark," I'm obviously concerned with this sort of reaction backfiring on me."

It did not backfire on you. She came home upset because she could get a hold of you. This is a productive reaction. In a sense, she was the pursuer now, not you.

I think what happened was you get anxious when she gets angry at you and so you are afraid of her leaving you, so her upset, upset you. But in truth, your going dark worked.

Tink

The W has referred back to this a few times, and I know it bothers her. Is there ever a time when doing this is bad, though?

My W tends to focus on the "normal" factor. We just had a bad conversation about 20 minutes ago. I slipped real bad because I am super stressed and have nothing to do today (big mistake not making plans). We discussed many things, but one thing she made a big point about was that I never choose the right time to talk to her - it's always when she is busy busy! Well, she said "I know you didn't feel well this morning and I offered to pick up some food, I was even willing to lay with you, and now we are talking about this stuff again and it's while I'm just out of the shower. It's always been like this. You try to talk to me about this stuff at work, when I'm in the middle of something. We'll be in the middle of a normal conversation and you bring up something in some weird way instead of just saying what you are thinking."

She was referring to my inquiry about if she wanted to move out about a month ago. She had a problem with it because she felt like I was suggesting it (which I was not). I asked her because I wanted to see where she was at in her head. I suppose that was the wrong way to say it, and maybe I should have just asked her a direct question?

I'm torn about something else, too. Before she left today, she asked me to go up and take a shower or something so she could leave because it was just weird to leave like that. I admitted I would miss her and she said she'd miss me too. I tend to read into things, so I was wondering if this is a case where she feels these things because it is the situation right now, and that once she settles in, she won't have these feelings anymore.

Yikes. This stuff is so hard! I'm going to order the book now

[Tink]

Of course, see, she has referred back to it because it was the one time that SHE was the vulnerable one in the passive mode pursuing you.

If you didn't sleep with her last night, that also would have upset her because it's you distancing yourself from her, not the other way around. See you are giving her all the power and control. She leaves AND she can pull you back in because you are being the puppy taking whatever scraps you can get from her.

I have several questions:

1. When she chose to leave you behind on vacation, are there extenuating circumstances, were you arguing about where or when to go...or were you available on those dates and she just really chose to not go with you?

2. Did you agree to her requests last night and today to sleep with her and take a shower with her?

3. Perhaps you find times to talk to her when she is busy because you crave her attention whenever you can't get it. Did you read my long post earlier about the "Bottomless Pit"?

4. Your inquiry about if she wanted to move out a month ago...I guess it's the same as saying I'm afraid you may leave me; do you want to?

[upside_downer]

I have several questions:

1. When she chose to leave you behind on vacation, are there extenuating circumstances, were you arguing about where or when to go...or were you available on those dates and she just really chose to not go with you?

We weren't arguing over where or when. The company we work for is very flexible for time off. She chose not to go with me because she said she needed time and space to relax. She told me she knew that when she came back, we'd fight about it because she knew I was against her going on the trip.

2. Did you agree to her requests last night and today to sleep with her and take a shower with her?

I went to a friends party last night, so I came home around 2:30 AM and slept on the couch. She actually didn't ask me to shower with her. Her intent telling me to go shower was because it was hard on her to leave with me sitting there. Does that make sense?

3. Perhaps you find times to talk to her when she is busy because you crave her attention whenever you can't get it. Did you read my long post earlier about the "Bottomless Pit"?

I think this is true, but not completely. I did read the "bottomless pit" post and felt I fit the description somewhat. I've always been the kind of person who just hates when I am stuck having someone else "run the show." I sound a little like a control freak, and in some ways that is true as well, but not wholly. I see the issue with this as she is super independent. I've struggled being able to know when she just wants me to leave her alone or when she is actually busy. This is why I choose bad times to talk to her. Every time seems like a bad time. She actually told me:

"I was free all day yesterday and you waited until I was just coming out of the shower and hit me with this conversation out of nowhere today"

She moved yesterday. Yesterday was the "big move day" that had been building all week. She couldn't sleep, was super stressed, etc. So I tried to be supportive by giving her space all day and not making a fuss or getting in the way at all. The movers came at 8 AM and I was already out the door just to avoid being around.

4. Your inquiry about if she wanted to move out a month ago...I guess it's the same as saying I'm afraid you may leave me; do you want to?

I agree here, too. That was a bad move on my part because I was upset and just wanted to say "what are you thinking? Pick one: Divorce, separation, eternal happiness? One thing my C told me when we were going together was that I need to be more accepting of an answer being less "solid" sometimes. By this, she meant I have to learn to accept, say, a "maybe" instead of a "yes" or "no" That has been hard. I don't like uncertainty in pretty much anything - I just don't see the point!

Tink - I appreciate your questions and thoughts. They help me sort out things in my head a little. I urge anyone reading this to throw their two cents in at any time, please!!!!!




[/quote]

[Tink]

Hi,

Well it sounds like you have major control issues and the more you try to control:

1. Knowing what she is doing, why she is doing it, who she is doing it with, etc.

2. What she does with you, how much time she spends with you, what she tells you, etc.

you are smothering her and driving her away.

I think that is why she took a vacation without you. The more you try to keep her with you because you are afraid of her leaving you, you are actually forcing her out.

Do you know the story of the cloud and the sun?

They both admire the coat a man is wearing down below. The cloud bets the sun that it can get the man's coat off. The cloud blows and blows but the more wind that comes, the tighter the man holds his coat on.

Then the sun tries and all it does is smile.

It gets so hot that the man on his own volition takes off his coat.

You need to do the exact opposite of what you are doing. You need to not contact her at all. When she contacts you, you need to sound happy and you need to not ask her about anything she is doing, other than a polite how are you.

You need to not talk about the relationship. And you need to let her change her phone service and anything else she says she is going to do without asking why or suggesting a different plan. You need to let go. That is the only possible way you can get her back.

And you need to be friendly and sound happy and warm and busy. Not like "Oh you hurt me, I'm devastated." That is not attractive.

And I would suggest reading the Bottomless Pit story about how Dr. Phil helped that couple.

You need to take responsibility for your control issues.

P.S. Have you ever cheated on her?

Tink

[upside_downer]

P.S. Have you ever cheated on her?

Tink

I'm all about analogies, and that cloud/sun one is just about right. I like it. Thanks for that!

There has been a friend of mine that has been close because of her own relationship woes, however, I could not stray with her to fulfill what I'm missing. I like my friend, and am attracted to her because she is cute, but I could not ever give up even the worst of my relationship with my W for her....it just doesn't fit or feel right.

Why do you ask? Is it because you think I am a control freak?