its been a crazy couple of days. h came last night and picked me up for our dinner...he even brought roses. we went out to dinner and stayed at the restaurant for a couple of hours talking...really tough talk, actually. good, bad, good, bad. we talked about what we both would need in order to give it a go again...he was NOT happy to hear that I thought IC for him was a must. he got very very defensive, even though I was really good at how I put it. he just does NOT think he needs it. and for me, well, if we are going to do this I want the deck stacked in our favor, and I think IC for both of us (me continuing mine) would really go a long way to making me feel hopeful. He tried to manipulate the situation a lot...tried to redirect it, turn it into other things. I stayed on course. not mean, not ball busting, more than willing to compromise on some stuff, but damn, that alien spew came out 10-fold. it was facinating to watch, actually. the panic he went in, trying to avoid IC.
He kept asking if it was an ultimatum. I had a hard time saying yes to that...and its funny, instead of getting reactionary about it or taking bait when he slung it, I really stepped back and asked myself why I had a problem with that word. and I explained to him what I was feeling about it. and I took my time and really thought and then responded. essentially it would just go a long way to making me feel like we really have a chance, and w/o it, I just feel like we will be in the same place again. I want us both healthy, not disfunctional like we were. I deserve/want someone healthy. and we talked about communication problems and such.
it was good but it was also hard. he really thought he could just say, "honey, I'm home" and that would be it. it isn't. and he realizes it now.
we got home and talked some more and I was kind and empathetic but I also have my boundaries, and while I'm more than willing to meet in the middle on a lot of things, and I am, I am also pretty firm about some things that I do need.
he was so frustrated.
we went to sleep (yes, he stayed over) and this morning apologized for the attacks (not about me, about my family and some other things). felt really bad about them, and realized he was being unreasonable about some things. understood better the compromise I was willing to strike.
one very interesting thing happened when we were getting ready to head out and get the kids. I was putting my makeup on and he was talking about his friend who was separated from his wife (I have met them both a couple of times). h went on to say they went to some really expensive intensive marriage counseling retreat in colorado...said that even though they still ended up getting divorced, he said it was the best money he has ever spent...that it was incredible. and then h asked if I had ever heard of someone, werner-davis. I almost choked. I questioned, "michelle?" and he said yeah, that was it. his friend saw some man, h couldn't remember the name, so googled colorado and marriage counseling or something like that (can't remember exactly what he googled) and this michelle woman came up and he started reading a bit and it seemed to make a lot of sense to him.
omg.
at first I really thought he had found this site...I've had my suspicions off and on. but talking to him makes me think he hasn't. but omg. I did NOT use the term DB at all, just said I had heard of her (2 books in the bookcase, wonder if he sees them among my other ones? lol).
interesting.
some other stuff over the morning was talked about. lots of stuff about how he has been feeling over the past several months and such. something interesting that came up...a guy he knows thru work was separated and he and his stbx were about to sign the papers and they completely turned things around and didn't, now they are really committed to making it work. this just happened. but it made h stop and think that it isn't impossible to come back. and the funny thing was, ow is the one who told him about G and his wife reconciling. she was exstatic for them.
he really seems to think this is a done deal and wanted to move back in and work on it, but also understood when I said no, no way jose. not putting myself or my kids thru that until I know for sure we are going to make it. I know there are no guarantees in life, but we are NOT there yet.
M-41 H-38 M-10 years, T-14 years Bomb-PA 3/19/07 Separated-6/7/07 Piecing/h back home 5/08 S-6 S-4 D-4
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'"
It is so nice to see that all the work you have done has paid off. By this I mean that you are able to have these convos. without losing your cool, state what you want and why, and set the boundaries necessary for you and your kids to be secure as you move forward. Hope your H is able to live up to your expectations...or should I say standards?
Congratulations! SD.
Me 41 W 41 Kids: S9 S7 Married 16 years Bomb dropped 2/2/07 Still living together! current thread
I'm glad things are progressing in a positive direction for you and your H. There is hope for the two of you and your kids.
We (LBS) are on the other end of this knowing full well the work involved in addressing our own issues in order to restore our M. Your correct to delicately stand your ground because you know without some help for him nothing will change and you could well find yourself in this same position in the future.
There is a reason beyond just you for his behavior and he needs to address it. I wish somehow I could have convinced my stbx to get the help she needs. Even if it didn't lead to our reconciliation, it would have been nice to see some peace in her life. She still is the Mother of my Son and I don't like to see her depressed and as lost as she is now. I don't think I was as graceful as you trying to explain the change in me and my need to have her emotionally healthy and grounded before moving back in together. She became defensive and I got frustrated. Good job on your part for the patients, wisdom, and understanding you show.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Forcing people into IC is rarely helpful. Why don't you ask for what in terms of a you want (healthy stable partner with improved communications skills) rather than dictating the means he takes to get there?
Studies on the usefulness of IC in the long-term are spotty at best, and it really isn't going to do much for limbo-H if he feels coerced into going. If IC works FOR YOU, that is great. Don't assume it is something that will work for limbo-H, and don't force it. Recent studies suggest that even antidepressants seem to be of negligible use for depression except in severe cases.
thanks so much all. atgo, I agree completley, regardless of us I hope he does get something out of IC and that it does help him as much as mine has helped me. I hope that for him more than almost anything at this point.
he has already emailed me today looking for help in finding a MC and an IC, which I will gladly do. will ask for some recs to help him get started to find his IC and such, but in the end, he'll have to talk to them/find one he is comfortable with/make the appt. I think that's a nice compromise. and he seems damned eager to get started with it all. which is a good thing.
he is offering/doing a lot for us right now. am learning to give a bit myself. I have to say it is downright weird talking to him...I swear it is. I'm so used to avoiding talking to him/keeping everything to email/keeping our personal lives separate that having chats with him, having him call and check on my day or to run things past me is throwing me off completely.
and I will also say that I still am waiting for that shoe to drop still. and maybe it will...who knows. but I'm trying to open up a bit and give it a chance. if the shoe drops, well, will deal with it then. going to continue to tread carefully in the meantime, but also going to loosen up a bit as well.
still not comfortable moving to piecing, but maybe someday. for now, just riding the wave and seeing where this one goes.
M-41 H-38 M-10 years, T-14 years Bomb-PA 3/19/07 Separated-6/7/07 Piecing/h back home 5/08 S-6 S-4 D-4
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'"
thanks for your input OT. I appreciate it. and that's probably why I wasn't comfortable with the term, ultimatum, when he asked if it was one. I am leaving it up to him whether he goes or not, but I am telling him I don't think we have as good a chance w/o him in IC and I sincerely believe it. its something I've talked over with my own IC and my friend who is a therapist and they agree with me. what he gets out of it is what he will put into it, I know that, and if he is dragged there you are right, it will be tougher. but hoping he does choose to put something into it, and will get something out of it because I hope that he can work thru a lot of the issues he does have. and because I want/deserve a healthy person and I'd still like that person to be him. and personally I do not for one second believe he will get there without IC. jmho. and maybe he will get nothing out of it, who knows. and maybe we aren't meant to be together...time will sort that one out, too.
the bottom line is I want someone healthy, I do not want a disfunctional relationship in the future.
I have no experience with anti-depressants so can't speak about them.
Last edited by SallyM; 05/19/0810:06 PM.
M-41 H-38 M-10 years, T-14 years Bomb-PA 3/19/07 Separated-6/7/07 Piecing/h back home 5/08 S-6 S-4 D-4
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is that little voice at the end of the day that says, 'I'll try again tomorrow.'"
