Hello, I'm a first time poster, but have been looking to DB for the last 6 months for support because of the pro-marriage solution based approach (I've read SSM and SSW, coaching and read forums/articles).
Sigh. I think there may be a way through my marriage troubles, but I sure can't see it from here. For the most of our relationship and our almost 4 year M, I've been HD. My love language is very much physical. I did bring it the importance of a satisfying love life before getting married and H was totally in agreement (so he said).
For the last three years, I've felt totally rejected and thrown away due to H's lack of interest in me(or lack of expressing it in ways I can understand). We've averaged less than once a month over this time, and in the last couple years, about once a quarter. I could write a book on how this makes me feel, but it's been said by other HDs here. Anyway, over this time period, I've periodiclly (usually every couple of months) asked, begged, shouted, etc for it to get better. I've told H that it has hurt me to the core; even warned him several months ago that I felt I was dangerously close to a breaking point. I know I did everything wrong in my approach and pushed him farther away (I see this now). Thus, intellectually, I can accept my part in causing this rift between us that spills into every aspect of our R.
I hardly even like my H any more. He is the man who has hurt me so much. It doesn't make me feel good to be around him, and the thought of intimacy at this point makes me feel so hurt and angry that there's no way I can deal with it. My body even physically shuts down when he approaches me.
H now wants to work on this, possibly because I've now totally cut off the ML. I haven't done it intentionally; I just can't bear the thought of it, my skin crawls. It feels demeaning and horrible to think of sharing that part of myself anymore with someone who has thrown it away for so long. (of course he says it wasn't like that, and I "shouldn't feel so hurt, besides I contributed to it also")
I have so much raw anger and hurt, and I know I have to get rid of them to have a chance, but I can't seem to actually do it. I don't know how.
Are there actually any HDWs out there who have gotten through this? I want to, but don't know how I can. This is really bitter irony. I wanted a love life with my H for so long and now I can't deal with the thought of it.
Background, my H and I are both very physically active and in shape, have satisfying careers, and hobbies and friends. We have a 21 month old son who is the shared joy of our life. I want to model a good R for him. I love my life, but am so depressed by my M.
I want to stay married, but I think a forever SSM will crush my sprit beyond repair (feels like I'm there already). I read a couple of really sad posts from long time SSW, and they were so sad.
LetGoHurtAnger, I will offer what advice I can at this stage. I am a HDH. In fact, as I have come to understand this aspect of myself better, I have learned that these HD/LD labels are really not that useful - but that's another post.
I can totally understand that you are full of resentment right now, and that you perhaps feel like "punishing" your husband for his "neglect". That of course will achieve absolutely nothing. You need to start thinking of answers to these questions:
(1) What started the downward spiral - what do you think, what does he think?
(2) What did you do to confront/solve the issue?
(3) How did he react? What explanation/response did he make?
(4) What roughly was the timeframe? You have a young child - that is very likely to have been a factor - yes?
(5) What does he mean by working on this?
(6) Are there other underlying issues in either of your lives - other family/work/money pressures?
(7) What are your respective pastimes/hobbies?
Take a deep breath, and fill in the blanks as objectively as you can - how would an impartial observer of your marriage answer?
I will check in in another day or so.
Strong&Alive
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
I just wanted to let you know that my H got to the EXACT point you are at right now, but actually wanted a D. No ifs, ands or buts about it. He was deadset on D. He was D O N E trying anything & everything and when I read how you are feeing, I can imagine that is just about how he was feeling.
The good news is that he did turn this around (so I'm sure you could). The bad news is that your H is going to have to be willing to do a LOT of hard work to get you back -- I know I did and it was totally worth it. Unfortunately, if he still is putting all sorts of blame on you and is not willing to be the one who does the work to get you back, I don't know how you will be able to change your feelings about him. I don't know that it's something you can do on your own w/o a LOT of input from him.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Perhaps I can add something here, perhaps not, but here goes...
My sitch was the opposite of yours, I was LD, H was HD. I didn't start out that way, but over the years, a poor self-image, complicated by the way my H treated me (because of my LD), exacerbated our sitch. There were other contributors, but that's it in a nutshell. My H had an A. It wasn't until I found out about the A, that I found the courage to face my issues. I picked up 4 books, 2 on rekindling desire/libido and 2 on A's. I read on the books on rekinding desire/libido first.
I read about how such a sitch is so detrimental to the HD partner. I had no idea my H took my problem so personally. I was horrified. It wasn't necessarily him that I didn't want, it was the intimacy. I knew he wasn't happy about the lack of sex, but he never told me how it made he really feel. I wish he had.
If your H really wants to work on things, would he be open to a sex therapist? If not, the books I read were really helpful ... as long you can open your heart, too. We're on our way back, and he didn't trust it at first, but we're getting there. And I'm happy to say that I'm enjoying the process.
So, I agree with RedHeadWife, but from the other side of the fence, with work from both of you, you can turn this around.
Hi Let Go....welcome to divorcebusting.com. Have you read SexStarvedWife?
Like Strong, I don't think the labels are all that useful, because I think they are usually relative to where you are in the relationship. I am wondering if your H has given you any explanations or reasons for his feelings. What was going on immediately before the situation changed?
Were there any major body or lifestyle changes?
What other things have you tried to change the situation?
I also believe you can turn this around. sg
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I have not been here in a while and thought I would check in and see what was up.
You are exactly where I am right now.
Read the books, done the work, been to counseling (couples, individual, etc..). Progress has been made but now I too struggle with getting over being beaten down for so long (almost 6 years now).
I told the W I wanted a divorce in January. She convinced me to keep trying but I no longer feel like I want to. It all just seems like too much work to me now. I know part of it is me. I am just SOOOOOO tired of working on this thing I can't stand it.
I had anger and frustration for a long time. Now, I don't feel much of anything toward this anymore.
I do still like my wife as a person but I don't really feel much more than that for her. I wonder if I ever will. It seems too late. Obviously, I am curious to see how people respond to your post. I am looking for these same answers as well.
Thank you all for posting such thoughtful replies, understanding and encouragement. I'm sorry I haven't been online lately - crazy work, then husband, baby and myself with bad colds. I don't know whether it's better to do this in separate posts or all in one, but I'll respond to everybody here.
Strong&Alive, (1) What started the downward spiral - what do you think, what does he think?
I don't really know what he thinks. Probably because the way I dealt with it (asking for it to be better) pushed him away more and caused a vicious cycle. I will ask him this question earnestly and get his actual words.
For my interpretation, I'll give a little background on our R. After dating several months, we ended up living together first in Thailand for 6 months while I was teaching abroad. This was a very exciting time for us. (In fact, when we met, the subject of travel was one of the first conversations that we had, and that's when we realized we really had a connection.) The relationship in general was definitely good during that time, though I do remember bringing up the physical intimacy subject, even then. He said it was important to him as well to have a sexually satisfying relationship/marriage, and that it would get better - it wasn't anything to worry about. This made me feel better and I believed him. This time abroad was early in the R, and the first time we lived together.
After 6 mos, we moved back to the US. Rocky from the start! He left a month ahead of me (note, I'm not sure – it may have been less time), because he could (he was freelancing, I had a steady job), and hung out in Hawaii until I could catch up with him. We stayed 10 days or so and came back to the US. Then we had, again, a several-week (definitely several-week) separation because he visited family (and friends) in California and Arkansas. His grandmother (who he had never spent much time with previously) was in her final weeks of life at that time. I had the steady job, and began looking for a house to buy to settle in. We weren't engaged at the time, so I bought it by myself but we intended to live together. I bought a bigger house than I was entirely comfortable with as a 'technically' single person but it was close to my work, etc, and a smart buy.
He didn't seem to understand that I needed his presence more at that transitional and scary time - scary for me because I was tying myself down (job, big house, new town) without any real promises from him. I lost a lot of weight during that time, and R was rocky when he got back.
We house-sat for a few weeks for a new friend. Then, the first night we were in our new home, he didn't want to be intimate. I couldn't believe it. It seemed terribly important to me, and I told him this. And he gave no reason for not wanting to. I got a blanket and went to sleep on the carpet of our yet unfurnished living room. I made sure he saw that I took my vibe with me! NOT the most sensitive thing I could have done, but words hadn't helped. He didn't seem to care that he was neglecting an emotional need; so I thought the idea of a physical need gone unmet might get through.
My short answer/guess: a) Maybe living abroad was somehow 'less serious' for either or both of us. Maybe we were happier, more stimulated and challenged mentally/emotionally. b) Maybe he sees a girlfriend as someone to ML with and a wife as a non-sexual partnership. c) Maybe when the initial excitement wore off, he just doesn't care about me. Note: he's a fantastic provider and I'm starting to feel stupid for caring about this, but it's always been important to me. I'm in exactly the kind of marriage I so desperately hoped to avoid.
(2) What did you do to confront/solve the issue?
I'd bring it up and let him know it was important to me, he'd agree; nothing would change. As this went on (conversation every few months) I'd get more emphatic, hurt and angry, and wasn't always diplomatic. There have been many tears and shouting. He'd pull away more (sexually and emotionally). He says he has felt "attacked" over the years and that's why he's pulled away. Note: I am very emotional and passionately expressive person (though strangely and completely detached now). He tends more toward Robot.
(3) How did he react? What explanation/response did he make?
No reaction. Explanation was always, "It's nothing, it'll get better".
(4) What roughly was the timeframe? You have a young child - that is very likely to have been a factor - yes?
Nope, child is only 1 year, this has been going on for 6 years (with unheeded hints of it prior - in Thailand). Probably got heightened with pregnancy and childbirth. He treated me like a leper during pregnancy. Other guys (just out and about) were giving me a ridiculous amount of attention, which made me even sadder about it all. The only person I wanted to want me… didn't. Now that I have a child, I am determined to be open to try to work this out. I would have absolutely been gone by now otherwise.
This sounds so fatalistic. However, I've learned that every M has its troubles, so it's pointless to go about throwing it away and looking for a new one. I firmly believe in working through the trouble because grass is not greener on the other side, just different. (but reading some posts by people who've gone without intimacy long term - as in decades, it's a scary prospect)
(5) What does he mean by working on this?
Good question - I have absolutely no idea!!!! My guess: going to counseling and just hanging on, hoping it'll stop bothering me. Well, it has, because I now survive as an emotionally detached participant in our M. I'm not sure my soul can sustain this forever.
(6) Are there other underlying issues in either of your lives - other family/work/money pressures?
Not anything more than anybody else deals with. I am a business owner. I had a hard time figuring out how my career and my (unexpected - yes, I was on the pill) motherhood can balance and coexist.
(7) What are your respective pastimes/hobbies?
Him: Ultimate Frisbee - like soccer but with Frisbee disc Motorcycling (dirtbike, not excessive) Art
Me: Nature, gardening, environment My work Triathlon Childrearing
Both of us are social, love music and are politically opinionated (and luckily we agree on the main points). I think we have some things in common here and also diverging interests, which is good.
I don't know if any of what I spewed above is helpful. I just feel terribly narcissistic and boring for throwing it all out there. Thanks for reading if anybody made it this far.
Thank you SO MUCH for offering your point of view with hope. If your H was set on D and changed his mind, maybe I can too (i'm NOT interested in D). I'm determined to change my mind/thinking/hurt,etc. I'm a little worried to hear that I need anything from him to do it. I like Michelle's idea that if just one person changes, the R changes, so I'm trying hard to change MY issues (regardless how they got here). He says he's willing to "work", however I don't think either of us knows what to actually "do" to change anything. I've read SSM and SSW. It seems I have to get over my hurt and go with the "Just Do It" philosophy, but I can't seem to. She doesn't really address the former HD person who now feels utterly broken.
Joie, Definitely added some helpful things too. How was it that you came to realize and care that it hurt him? Was it the affair or something else he said/did? Do you have advice for me to get it across to my H? Maybe he's not capable of truly caring about my feelings. I'm impressed you read the books and are making it work. I can read the books. I can give the books to H also, but am afraid if I give them to him, he'll resist. I think i have to see him trying so that i can become open again. I'm too afraid of opening myself up (rekindling my desire) only to be in the same situation again - denied.
I'll try suggesting a sex therapist. We've seen a regular therapist, but it doesn't seem to be her area. Maybe this will break down some barriers. Thanks again, -LetGo
Thanks for the welcome and the optimism. I agree the labels have limitations. I have read SSW. I think i'll start it again tonight. To answer your question:
Initial major change was moving back to the US. Initial body change was loosing weight (healthy-slim to way-too-skinny), but H said that was not a problem, and i got back to normal after just a few months.
Other things I've tried: I've tried doing "180" several times. I'd do a 180 and pretend it didn't bother me to be in a SSM. I'd act happy, etc. Then he'd just act even more "blindsided" when, after a few months nothing changed and I couldn't pull off the act any more. In fact if i'm even marginally functional in my overall life, he cites this as part of why he thinks it's not a problem. When i bring it up, he'll say "You're just being emotional right now, you're not unhappy ALL the time". (his exact words, many times)!!
More recently, now that the above 180 has actually taken hold (i truly am shut down to intimacy), he doesn't like it and wants to "fix it". It seems to be a real conundrum. If i could just change and get over it, we'd have a chance. But i guess he'd have to change too or we'd be back where we started (ML 5x/year).
Wow, that's it! - that's what i need to (start to) get unstuck! - to see "actual actions" from him that give me optimism that things will be different - then i could take the risk. i think he would at least try the therapist. I could ask...
