Jumping in late, I see, to this topic...but, I have an ex of 2 years now. Relationship? Crappy. I can do nothing right. I am a crappy father even though I buy everything, and anytime I speak to her it is a waste of my time. I am not looking for anything else from her, but just to be on a common ground with OUR kids and not looked at like I am the bad guy all the time. I could really care less about anything that has to do with her as a person but what ties us together still....is O-U-R kids. She is the one that has to deal with the bad feelings the kids will have for her when they get older....this has to go with the way they are living with her and the treatment of their emotions.
If the honest truth is not negative, why not just tell it?
My ex and OM come up with some pretty complex explanations of "what happened" and how they got together. Explanations that scream of denial. My ex when she first met my new W in a one-to-one planning meeting regarding shared time with my kids... xw basically started with an unpromted explanation of how she ended up with OM. It was totally out of context of the discussion and out of the blue. I suppose that would be the deep blue guilt lying below the surface where she has neither the courage nor ability to access it, accept it, and deal with it in a healthy mature way.
Can you imagine living with such a thing. Such a thorn in one's side. It would be handicapping for life. It is so incredibly obvious to all involved... frankly it is painful to watch.
So.... whatever. Kids will one day ask the tough questions. I will let the truth migrate its way to the surface ather than me try to expose it.
So I agree.... they will be held to account of some kind some day. We need only worry about our own wrongs in life.
I can do nothing right. I am a crappy father even though I buy everything, and anytime I speak to her it is a waste of my time.
FA... ditto here.
I believe my ex's strong offence against me is her defence. Her denial of her own part in it. The worse I am and the more I have to point at serve as distractions for her so she does not have to look at her own stuff. Good old fashion denial.
We have to be demonized in order for them to rationalize their behaviour that they very likely have some awareness that what they did was questionnalbe at best. With the rare exception of the odd sociopath (wich I am not convinced my xw isnt), it is unlikely that anyone growing up in our culture which still centres largely around the 10 commandments, it is unlikely for someone iwth this cultural conditioning to not know that they are in the wrong... even if only on a subconscious level.
It is so, so, ssssoooooo easy for any of us to take moral inventory of others faults. It is way tougher to take our own inventory and then accept and deal with what we find. There is no pain in me taking my ex's or her taking my inventory. We do it to each other regularly! In fact, not only is there no pain, there is pleasure in listing and sharing their wrongs.
Yet, it wasnt until I rigorously began to search out my own wrongs that I began to experience healing and growth to any meaningful degree. My ex does not appear to be willing to admit any wrongdoing. Other than at a superficial level like "Well nobody's perfect" (usually spoken with arms folded and eyes rolling).
This is "chewing gum" grade admission. It provides a little short-term flavour but no nutrition in terms of personal growth. But hey... if that is where she is at then that is hers to deal with. She has to live with herself for the rest of her life and if she is stuck in her stuff.... then she is frankly the one who will suffer the most.
I am grateful for the influences in my life that continue to encourage me to search deeply and honestly and get help being honest with myself. It is a painful process but the result is healing and happiness.
If the honest truth is not negative, why not just tell it?
My ex and OM come up with some pretty complex explanations of "what happened" and how they got together. Explanations that scream of denial. My ex when she first met my new W in a one-to-one planning meeting regarding shared time with my kids... xw basically started with an unpromted explanation of how she ended up with OM. It was totally out of context of the discussion and out of the blue. I suppose that would be the deep blue guilt lying below the surface where she has neither the courage nor ability to access it, accept it, and deal with it in a healthy mature way.
Can you imagine living with such a thing. Such a thorn in one's side. It would be handicapping for life. It is so incredibly obvious to all involved... frankly it is painful to watch.
So.... whatever. Kids will one day ask the tough questions. I will let the truth migrate its way to the surface ather than me try to expose it.
So I agree.... they will be held to account of some kind some day. We need only worry about our own wrongs in life.
Ciao.
Chazz
Chaz,
I love the rationalizations. If they would only have put half the effort INTO their M as they did fabricating stories, they would have saved their M.
I think your exW was attempting to justify why she let you go....... Obviously, other women see something in you and exW was doing a CYA........ She was attempting to not look like a total a$$....
One of the most amusing things in my sitch was when women would say something like "What was your exW thinking? Women are LOOKING for a man like you. They are NOT running away from them." I would just sit there and smile.... It actually happened a few times.....
If someone was trying to "sell me" on their reasons for D, I would ask some tough questions. Did you put in 100%? Did you spend a couple years at least going to C AND working on M? Were you TOTALLY focused on M and NOT thinking about, talking to or in anyway involving an opposite sex third party outside immediate family members? Did you all of a sudden "meet" someone shortly after S or D? If they did not answer questions like those correctly, I would have to wave the BS flag and call them on it.......
The thing which REALLY gets me is how the WAS will make all kinds of accusations....... Like they were neglected...... The ODD thing is they right away jump into another R..... That, in my lay person's opinion, does not seem like what someone would do. If those allegations were true, they would want to seek C.
As for the children, I would just tell them the truth.... Whatever it is..... Daddy was NOT perfect....... Mommy and Daddy had some problems many married couples have..... Daddy want to work on their M..... Mommy did not........ Mommy left.... A few months later, she married _________...... I think they can figure it out.... Of course, I respect the fact you can approach this however you want. The above is how I would approach it....
Take Care,
NMD
Last edited by No_More_Dodo; 05/18/0811:48 PM.
"Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years. That is what makes a marriage last --more than passion or even sex!" - Simone Signoret
My kids know that I wanted to work on the marriage (they see me in IC, saw me sad, I even apologized to them for not being able to make it work). I agree that the circumstances will be known as time progresses and they start asking the tough questions, or just putting things together on their own.
I had so hoped that he would have recommitted, with this as an important reason--the R between the kids and him will be so changed from what it has been....but I am also letting go of that responsibility. It is between the kids and their father; I can't protect any of them from that, as much as I had hoped to.
Oh, back to the Smiley Sauce: My H said via legal papers that he was demanding I pay his atty fees because I "wouldn't cooperate with him". LMMFAO!!!!!!
That sounds like something my crazy X would do!!!
Quote:
For real, H doesn't get to tell me what to do ever again.
Yep!!! Mine seems to think he can do the same as well. He started questioning some of MY financial matters recently and I had to tell him twice that MY finances were none of his business.
"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf." Jon Kabat-Zinn
Judge ordered my ex to pay about 1/3 of my costs a couple years ago.... and I was the defendant!
So it does happen. If opposing side buggers things up.... which in my ex's case was largely due to her over-aggressive lawyer... judge will award some amount of remedy.... also serves as a deterent to further frivolous litigation
BTW... I then reported my ex's lawyer to her professional association and the lawyer is facing discipline next month! Ohhh.... that is worthy of its very own thread! Thanks for triggering my memory!
Hey folks, I'm weighing in the discussion way late and out of the blue...
Like others with kids who are not grown, I have lots of contact with XW and OM (now Mr. XW) I see them at least twice a week, and spend the holidays with them and my kids (God help me). I do this because of the children mostly. I have little or no family and for the kids, the family is the X's and I'm not going to drag them away from their family to sit at Dad's alone on holidays. Nor do I want them to have to decide on who's the god guy/bad guy.
I live around the corner from X-in laws, work with X-in laws, see them quite a bit. Contact is frequent as you may guess.
Saying all that, I found a couple of things interesting that others haven't mentioned. One great source of strength/entertainment is that I can read her like a book. Years of being together allow you to know what they are up to and detachment allows you to not be much affected. As an example, mine sends e-mails to me only when it's something she knows is a touchy subject (maybe once a year). Otherwise she just calls me or tells me the next time she sees me. Once I figured this out, I realized that despite her bold front, she is secretly a chicken. Last time she did it, I immediately called her and she backed right down. Wish I knew that when we were married
Also, my X doesn't see that there is anything to be cut up about over the D. I look into her eyes and see her thinking that it had no more significance than say trading in a car and thinking I feel the same (which I don't, of course, but that's none of her business). That disconnect is what made it easy for her to walk from our M (and her M before that one) and doesn't bode well for her new hubby, although I personally hope he dumps her. It'd be a nice switch for her.
Even with all that, no contact would be the way to go if possible. Too much contact can get to you out of the blue.
Married 11 years Divorced about 3 (I honestly have to get out a calendar and figure it out everytime) XW moved in with OM a few months after the D was final and married him within a year
Also, my X doesn't see that there is anything to be cut up about over the D. I look into her eyes and see her thinking that it had no more significance than say trading in a car and thinking I feel the same (which I don't, of course, but that's none of her business). That disconnect is what made it easy for her to walk from our M (and her M before that one) and doesn't bode well for her new hubby, although I personally hope he dumps her. It'd be a nice switch for her.
bigAl,
Your exW seems a LOT like mine. She said, "It is NO big deal. People get divorced ALL the time." I wonder how they will (NOT would) feel when someone does it to them. They would probably want the SOB hung by his scrotum.
I am sure you have heard this before. But, I will say it. It is a shame your M ended in D. However, it seems like your exW is just not a "normal" woman with "normal" female feelings and tendencies. You are much better without her.
I also think it is good you can spend time with all of them. To me, it shows you are moving on with your life.
Take Care,
NMD
"Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years. That is what makes a marriage last --more than passion or even sex!" - Simone Signoret
They will all be judged one day.......they won't be able to hide anything then. Even as much as they so called believe they've been forgiven, that just makes me laugh.
It actually happened a few times.....