Finding DB late in the game #4

[cw68]

Last thread locked:
#3 Did I find DB too late? Maybe not

Hi Hound, you locked up my thread.

Things are OK. Not bad. We've had a few good conversations and I've kind of laid out a few things that I need that he's responding to. Put a deposit down on Retro, for instance. While he hasn't said he'll do it, he was down with me signing up for it and last weekend I told him I need him to go. I didn't ask him for an answer, but I was telling him what I need. Bottom line, he's still confused. He sees me making changes and becoming a better person and he hopes to do so himself. Will that be enough to make him come back and want us to work? He honestly doesn't know.

One difference for me is that I now kind of have a mini-deadline in my head. That's July 10. Either we will be going to Retro (which I know isn't a cure-all, but probably is something that really could give us the best chance) or he won't go. If he won't go, I'm completely dark. Our lease is up July 31st. I told him I want him to move back Aug 1st, that I wasn't in any rush in the meantime.

So, for the next few months it's DBing, validating, PMA, acting as if, continuing the 180s and GAL. That's all I can do. He has to do the rest inside that silly little head of his.

[JenInVen]

Hi CW...what about another MC weekend? Are there any others in your area that H might be more eager to attend? I'd be hesitant too with my fear of the "Catholic Conscience". (no offense to those Catholics out there).

Jen

[cw68]

Up until this point, he wouldn't do any of the other weekend things I have put out there. I think the cost (re: cheap) factor of Retro might balance it out. Once he referred to it as the "catholic" option and I countered with the "cheap" option.

I know that in DBing, I'm not supposed to put out there what I need, but I simply cannot just stand to the side forever. Some may say that I haven't been at this long, since I really discovered DBing in January. However, we've been fighting this fight since July. How I wish I would have really jumped into this site, into the book last fall when I first ran across it. I was just trying so many things and then when one would fail, I'd go on to the next one. It took me a while to find this. Nine months ago my world was rocked to its core. I need some stability. I need to feel loved. I'm lonely, though I'm not scared anymore at least.

I need him to do Retro, and if he won't do Retro then he needs to do something else. Jen, I'm as wary of the whole catholic thing (again, no offense) but since I grew up in an Italian/Irish neighborhood of Chicago (read: Catholic), I'm pretty used to tuning it out. I will set up a couple of other options that I hope he bites at, or I am as dark as dark can be.

I'd be dark right now if he didn't tell me flat out last week that spending time together as a family is good for him, that it allows the two of us a lot of positive interaction since he's not ready to deal with us one-on-one. He's making a few steps towards that, however. He said -- and I'll believe it when I see it -- that while his Mom is here later this week we'll go out together alone.

BTW, I'm soooo not looking forward to his Mom coming. She and I get along fine, but she's a bitch. A lonely, depressed, unhappy hermit who has pretty much driven her kids away from her. She has no friends, she hates whatever job she has at the moment and has no people skills. She's brilliant, has two college degrees, but mostly works minimum wage jobs because "the boss is a jerk," "I work with idiots," or "I can't stand working for such corporate pigs." She's never married, heck never had a relationship that's lasted for two years, has put herself before her three kids (by different fathers because her relationships didn't last long enough to have multiple kids by the same guy) always and lives by the motto that you have to make yourself happy. Except that she's unhappy. Without question, she's part of our problem because she didn't prepare her kids for real life, heck SHE can't deal with real life.

While I admit that I'm probably somewhat biased against her, even my husband would agree with 95% of what I wrote above. This is what kind of a mother she is: in 1971, when her oldest was about five or so (she was 24), her parents took them to England. As they were finishing packing and planning on going to the airport, she turned to her Mom and said, "You take X back to the States, I'm staying here and getting a job. I'll send for X when I'm employed." Nobody heard from her for six months until she showed up at their doorstep saying, "I'll take X now." And that's a tame story in the book of MIL.

I don't expect her to be a positive influence on our relationship during this visit, though I do know that she loves and supports me.

[Dom R]

She's never married, heck never had a relationship that's lasted for two years, has put herself before her three kids (by different fathers because her relationships didn't last long enough to have multiple kids by the same guy) always and lives by the motto that you have to make yourself happy. Except that she's unhappy. Without question, she's part of our problem because she didn't prepare her kids for real life, heck SHE can't deal with real life.

Wow.

one of those truely scary, "sad but true" stories.
Must be tough for her son to mentally fight his way clear of that legacy.

[cw68]

Last story about my MIL, but thought this to be more pertinent because it happened more recently and it involves my H. My H is the middle child, the stable one, almost a partner-like figure. H has two brothers, one eight years older, one eight years younger. His younger brother has big problems, not the least of which is a drug/alcohol problem. His brother was 16 when we moved out to California, which just freaked his Mom out. She came out to visit us over T-day and the first night H asked his mom how his younger brother was doing. She replied, "Oh, E got kicked out of high school for truancy." H asked what E had to say about it, "Oh, I don't know, he didn't come home last night. I HAD to come visit you just I just left him a note and we'll talk about it upon my return." ggrrr

So my H thinks his kids have a fine deal. When I said that it's not fair to the kids to have divorced parents, that they will do best with an intact family, his response was once, "Well, they'll have two parents, and that's better than what I had and I'm fine." (He had had one email exchange with his father three years ago, their only contact in his entire life.)

[cw68]

I've been thinking about playing May pretty dim and want input as to whether or not it's a good idea. I know that when I was dim before, H definitely responded and it moved us a little forward. (That and my attitude towards things.) Part of me thinks it would be a good idea because we'd still have June before he'd have to pony up (or not) to Retro and we still have the apartment through the end of July. Perhaps he needs to see a little of what it will be like? I hesitated to do this before because of the kids, but it's been a few months and it wouldn't be such a shock to them now.

BUT, does it show that I'm not listening to him and trying to control the situation given that just last week he told me that spending time together as a family is helpful to him? How do I navigate this with a big part of me feeling that he needs to have a little more reality tossed in for him to make a good decision on us.

[Virtually_Handsome]

(((((cw)))))
I'm trying to figure out how to walk both sides of the fence. Could you go dimmer on him, and yet maintain good family time? Maybe stop any extra hanging out, but still be there for the kids. I thing the timing is good for going dim, maybe you could split the difference, have less family time, but focus on making it really good?

I have a feeling that wasn't really helpful! I will keep thinking!

[Dom R]

I think it's always best to "go with what works /at the moment/", rather than "go with what worked last year".

Similarly, if he specifically tells you something is helpful... and his actions are matching what he told you... then why not keep giving him what he asked for?

Contrariwise, if his actions arent matching his words... how about telling him that?

in my opinion, open and up-front communication is always better than attempts at behind-the-back manipulation, when the communication lines are functional.

[cw68]

Yeah, he specifically said that family time together is helpful and good for him so I definitely need to continue that.

Had a good therapy session today, though I swear most of it is spent focusing on my H. The upshot of that is that I am beginning to understand him more and after today's session, I'm convinced more than ever that his Mom and his childhood is definitely a big part of our problem. As my T said today, he doesn't know how to have a relationship but it's not just as I've thought with no parental role models around. His M has no boundaries and does not have close relationships with her sons, it's more like co-dependent relationships with him. My H took on the role of partner, protector without the benefit of being to be intimate with her (and I don't mean in a physical way). He doesn't know how to have an intimate relationship with someone, just a co-dependent one. He's always stuffed his own feelings inside himself so he wouldn't cause her more pain, more trouble, whatever. He needs to work that out before he can ever have a good, intimate partnership. I knew that his childhood and Mom were problematic, but today I saw some new stuff.

My T's recommendation was to pull back after his Mom leaves because he's going to be going through a lot emotionally. She kept calling their relationship "sticky" and after I told her about the dress that my MIL picked out for our wedding, she was aghast. (Don't remember if I've mentioned this, but her first dress was a long white lace dress which she described to me as something that someone her age would wear as a bride. I told her that I really didn't care what she wore as long as it wasn't white or light blue, the color of the bridesmaid dresses. She returned the matronly wedding dress and showed up in a white dress accented with light blue flowers. grrr. This was all after she offered to be my H's best man in the wedding. For real.)

OK, so I'm just journaling my appt here, but at some point during the session I told her that I'm fine with him working on himself, etc etc, but I do need a little for either me or us. Specifically I said, "I'm fine with him spending 90% of his time and effort on himself, but I need 10% towards me or us." and she recommended that I tell him that in those words. Timing is bad with him in Canada, then his Mom coming and then I need to pull back. I don't want to come back in full force with demands so I need to find a way to work it in before she leaves and let him think about it when I'm dim next week.

I guess I'm just antsy. I don't do well with waiting. My lesson, I know...

[MichelleLT]

Waiting is the hardest part. I'm not good at it either. I can't even sit still for 8 hours at work let alone be patient when it comes to H! I have to distract myself constantly lol.

We are all getting better at it though.