I have work to do, both house and paid, but I'm so frustrated right now, I have to get it out. Thanks very much for your kind words, na and deuxlie, but how can I possibly be piecing when he is in full retreat again?
He hardly looked at me this morning, seemed to be going out of his way to avoid me, didn't talk much. I took my cue from him and didn't talk, didn't hang around, said goodbye to the kids and disappeared, so he wouldn't feel like I was hovering around waiting for a kiss when he left (most mornings, H drives the kids to school). Thinking the coast was clear, I came back up, just as he came back in looking for his coffee. He didn't come anywhere near me, and I went back downstairs. He didn't even say goodbye, either time, just left.
I suppose it's possible that my pulling back is not the right thing to do, but trying to be affectionate doesn't seem to change anything either. Mornings are so hard - he seems so irritated by my just being alive. Neither my H or my S are morning people, and that's probably part of it, but it's so hard, especially since things mostly seem normal during the night.
Yesterday my S had a baseball game; he and my H went ahead early, and my D and I (and the dogs) followed along about an hour later (the park is only a few blocks away). When we got there, I was feeling genuinely affectionate, and thought that, as a 180 and part of my PMA, I would go right up to him and give - him a kiss when we got there. I did that - he was surprised but played along - and the rest of the day was okay - H came home after the game, then went out again for more baseball related stuff (he's quite involved in the organization). Even though it was fake, because I wish he wanted to spent time with me, I cheerfully said goodbye when he left and hello when he came back, and there were a few moments in the evening when things were feeling almost normal.
I went to bed feeling fairly optimistic and then - the usual morning wet blanket. I guess I should just 'expect' that the mornings will be like that. I'm not sure that following his lead is the best course of action - perhaps a more cheerful ignoring of his crabbiness? Take the iniative with a good morning hug and kiss? I guess all I can do is try it for a few days and see if things get better or worse.
I have moments when I'm sure we'll be fine and moments when I'm sure we won't be, that either he will leave or I will tell him to, because this is SO HARD. Then I tell myself that at the very least I've bought my children another day with an intact family and that I can get through one more day. Appropriate determination or just stupidity?
Anyway, I have to stop crying and get on with things. Have a good day, everyone! The sun is shining and perhaps spring is finally here.
This sounds like the typical distancer/pursuer game and it does get old. I have been posting at EDITED--ADVERTISING NOT ALLOWED and there are others there that you know. I tried to PM you but apparently that isn't allowed anymore.
I had a look at that site, and found to my surprise that this board is apparently a hot bed of controversy. I may stop in there every once in a while - the Marriage Builders site looked good - but I am also having 'I'm doing all that already and things are just getting worse!' reaction. I would love to ask my H to read the basic marriage builders concepts, but I know he would just interpret it as pressure. It describes so clearly where he is right now, while pointing out that it is in his power to change his feelings, if he's only willing to put in a little effort, which apparently he's not.
I need to work out a way to communicate this to him, my frustration at his passivity and the fact that he seems to be waiting for his feelings to change all by themselves - he's letting himself be ruled by his emotions (or lack of) in this case, rather than taking the lead.
I need to work out a way to communicate this to him, my frustration at his passivity and the fact that he seems to be waiting for his feelings to change all by themselves - he's letting himself be ruled by his emotions (or lack of) in this case, rather than taking the lead.
Ingrid - I'm going to take a guess that you, like me, are the "fixer" in your R. True? If so, and he is distancing, I think it is helpful to take a step back and do nothing (whatever that is by your definition) and see if he steps closer to you. Give him the opportunity to step up his game instead of stepping in for him.
I've read Harley's books, and they didn't really help me much. My H focused on his needs that weren't being met instead of taking the opportunity to understand what my needs were. Same thing with Love Languages. (Lordy I have read a lot of R books!)
Sometimes, the harder we hold on to something the quicker it slips through our grasp. The key is to somehow hold on, just enough, while taking care of you. Tell me what else you are doing for yourself these days besides book club?
The last few nights, I've been wearing a sexy nightgown under my robe. I'm sure H noticed even though he said nothing. We actually had a tension free weekend, even though there was no pysical affection. I mentioned that on the other board, and someone posted that "absence of tension" is an initial baby step. (btw - there is a hidden board on the other site which is where I post - you just need to ask for access).
I can feel your angst and hope you can find some ways to release it for yourself. Be happy in spite of your problems, and the happiness will flow into your M.
Hey, all ~ baseball season has started and so "the boys" are rarely here, as my son plays (this is the first year my H has not coached the team, and he can't stop himself from hanging around in the dug out/dugout? is it one word or two?) and they both umpire, so most nights of the week, my D and I are on our own. I discover at this time of year that as a single mother with one child, I'm not really into the whole dinner thing - we tend to just graze on whatever's around.
I realized a while ago that what I'm talking to my H about our S's baseball schedule, I'm not talking to my S's father, but to the little boy who never got to play any sports and is still bitter about it. I asked him if we could talk, because I wanted to explore this a bit; he hasn't made any space available, though, because he's probably expecting a big scene. I'd like to get into bed naked with him, snuggle up to his back, and just share my insight with him. I should try this sometime when we're both awake in the middle of the night.
I'm doing better on the surface - smiling, positive comments on his behaviour/appearance, helpful, reaching out physically in small ways - but worse on the inside. The other day, I was fine until he came home from work. We said hi, he went to get changed and I just started crying, overwhelmed with how much I miss the man that looked at me with love in his eyes and wanted to be near me. I see the effort he's making, and it kills me that it's such an effort to be with me. He's responding to the efforts I'm making, there are positives, but I am in rough shape. Probably hard to tell from this post, but I have tears running down my face and I can't actually see.
I have so much anxiety about things - what he's doing, what he's going to do. In a couple of weeks he's going to Calgary for a weekend. I'm pretty sure it's businees, but I am apparently really easy to fool, given how long he was actually f**cking around and I didn't know. I knew something was wrong, all we did was fight, but I had no idea how bad things really were and the same could be true today.
My nights are full of anxiety dreams about our R, the future, even my job, which is fairly secure, I think. As a side effect of my ADs, plus where I am in my life and these dreams, I wake up most nights covered in sweat - it is so gross (sorry, but this is my reality at the moment and this is the place where I lay out the ugly stuff). Last night my H tried to put his hand on my and I had to kind of intercept, because I wouldn't want to touch me. I picked up something to take for this, but I never remember to take it, so it's not doing me much good.
Reading that over, I almost deleted it, but decided to leave it in, as a reminder that I should make more of an effort here. It's yucky and embarrassing, and I don't have to let it go on.
Another reminder for myself: I really like the nonviolent communication approach pioneered by Marshall Rosenberg. I'm going to go into some detail about it here so I can refer back to it when I need to figure out how to express something.
There is a lot more to this approach, but there are four basic steps:
Observation - merely observe what is happening in the situation without adding judgement or evaluation. We simply state what we are experiencing.
Feeling - share with the other person how this situation makes you feel. Label feelings but also discern if this siutation is triggering an emotional reaction because it is reminiscent of our past.
When unresolved childhood wounds are triggered, we unconsciously project our feelings of frustration and helplessness from the past onto the present. Feelings can be strong and misleading - not wrong or right, but just your feelings, not concrete proof that the other person has done anything wrong or intentional. Ask yourself if the intensity of the feeling is justified given the current circumstance. "It is our personal responsibility to ensure that we do not project our wounding from the past on to our current relationships".
Needs - what needs are connected to the feelings we have identified - closeness, safety, consistency, communication, honesty, respect
Request - what do we want from the other person that would enrich our lives or make life more wonderful for us.
Okay, so now I'm going to try to use this framework to talk about how I'm feeling. I'll probably never say this to my H, since the last time I tried to share with him what I needed, it didn't work out very well.
Another thing I heard some time ago is that it's not a feeling if it requires action from another person - for example, you can't feel 'abandoned' because that requires someone to abandon you. This makes you down the extra level - the feeling is your 'fear' of abandonment.
Anyway, here's my attempt:
There is much less tension between us these days and I really appreciate that. I also notice that interaction between us is quite superficial and stays very much on the surface of things.
I can see that you are struggling in many ways and it is not my intention to make any demands on you. I'd like to share, though, that I am really sad, lonely and anxious.
The sadness comes from how much I miss you, how much I miss talking to you and being able to share my feelings.
I think you can guess where teh anxiety comes from. The loneliness comes from being unable to share my anxiety with you and from how little you are sharing with me about your feelings and your life.
When you let me in on the details of your day, not just what happened, but your reaction to it or other thoughts you may have had, this helps fill my need for closeness and supports my efforts to rebuild my trust in you. As much as you feel comfortable, I would really appreciate if you would also share with me some of your deeper thoughts and feelings.
It's too long, isn't it? If I ever decide to share it with my H, I intend to handwrite it out and it shouldn't be a novel. Any editing suggestions welcome.
What I really want is for him to tell me that he loves me and the he is committed to working on our M. I have so many questions about the information he just dumped on me last fall. I don'gt expect to be able to talk about it any time soon, but my H seems to thing that we will never discuss it again - or at least, he hoping that's the case, since in his head he did the big confession and it's over now.
I have work to do and this is just making me stress and cry. Good to get it out here instead of all over my H, I know.
To anyone that managed to read this far - wow, that's impressive. Thank you for your attention. I hope to get catch up with other people's lives this week, but this morning I needed to get some of this stuff out.
Hi Ingrid, Just wanted to let you know I'm here. I know how miserable it is to live in limbo. As good as DB is, it's also a very stressful way to live--not knowing when or if you can share how you feel, trying to suppress anger and hurt. It is exhausting.
Me/X-H: 47/48 T 19 yrs M 16 years D14 D10 ILYBINILWY: 10/07 H moved out 6/08
I actually think that I deal with the anger and hurt for myself. I've been trying to acknowledge it, feel it for a bit, and then put it aside and move on. ADs help enormously with this - I can get stuck in a 'thought vortex' for hours, carrying on inside my head and bawling my head off as I go through my day. This hasn't happened since I started the meds, thank god. Being that angry and sad all the time only punishes ME and doesn't do anything to make the situation better.
The conversation I want to have with my H is to tell him how difficult I'm finding sex. Not the sex part (that is usually pretty good :), but the fact that I open myself up emotionally during, and there's nowhere to go with that after. I often lie there leaking tears because I can't tell him that I love him and I have to pretend that it's all just physical. He either doesn't notice or pretends not to, because for a really long time after the last revelation of infidelity (previous to the most recent, in the fall), every time we made love, I cried afterwards because I couldn't keep the pictures of him with other women out of my head. It probably doesn't make any difference to him that I'm crying for different reasons now - not that I don't cry about the other stuff too - and he would rather just not deal with it.
I keep wondering how long I can do this - I have very strong impulses to tell him that he should move out, that this is just too hard. Then I get through one more day, some good, some not so good. I guess I'll just keep going until I can't anymore, or until I've stomped my feelings under so many times that they give up and die, and I look at my H with the same cold eyes I've seen so many times over the years.
Better get to work - I've managed to whittle away the entire morning, pretty much.
Been reading some other posts on this Board, and need to get a draft 'letter to my H' down before I lose the thought.
For the last couple of years, you worked really hard to help me heal. No matter what you did, though, we always ended up in the same place and you were so discouraged that you decided you couldn't do it anymore.
I realize that you haven't recommitted to our M or to me, and that's okay. What's not okay is that sometimes you look so sad, so sad I almost want to tell you to leave, if that will really make you happier, because it's hard to watch someone you love struggle.
I really appreciate that you are still here. I don't want to slide back into old, destructive behaviours and I'd really like to learn anything you'd care to share about what you need right now.
Lot's of work still to do, obviously - I'll come back to it.
Well, just for fun I found out yesterday morning that my H has been having yet another online affair for 'a few months', whatever that means. I snooped, knowing I was going to find something, I think.
I handled it pretty well, I think. Calmly, anyway, although I haven't been able to stop crying since he left for work. We had a pretty good conversation, in which he told me again that he likes me, loves me, but isn't in love with me, and has again been considering leaving - for about the same amount of time he's has his little friend on the side.
I haven't, and hope I won't, made any demands that he stop. That's going to be a big struggle for me, but I'm really going to try. I'm going to ask him to stop thinking about whether he loves me and to spend more time thinking about how he feels about himself. I very much opened my hand and let him go - I told him that I wanted him to be happy and if he needed to leave for that happen, then he should go. As far as I know, he hasn't made a final decision to go, but could any day, I guess.
I just finished reading When Things Fall Apart (I think it was LightSeeker who suggest it, thanks), and have started Happiness, also suggested by someone on this board. I've been trying the 'thinking' and 'opinion' practices, and they have been helpful, and were especially helpful in keeping me calm this morning.
I guess I need to move off Piecing and to ? Infidelity? That hardly even seems to be an issue right now. Perhaps I've gotten used to it, I don't know, but that's not really the thing that making me cry - it's that I thought we were making some progress, but instead, we're almost back where we started. MLC again? I have no idea. Is there a forum called 'completely f-d up'?
