Where do...I...go from here?

[tpaschal]

So my first thread finally locked. Came up with a new title for my thread. Not very original, but it certainly fits what I'm thinking!!

Wish I knew how to link my past thread.

So, to update...

I am trying to GAL and be strong and positive for my kids (aren't we all?) but it is hard. I know I am doing better by far than I was 16 or 12 or 6 or even 3 months ago, but I still waffle and spin and twist in the wind on many occasions.

The hardest part is trying to picture a happy future without him. I can kind of sort of picture a future without H, but right now that picture still has very little joy or happiness in it.

And I don't know what I'll be DOING in that future career wise, or how it will affect the kids and their day to day lives. I'm having to make decisions for my and my kids' future based on so many unknowns. I want to do something I love, but I have no idea what that is right now, or how to figure it out. I know I'm still focused too much on what I'm losing, what the kids and I will be missing.

Temporary Orders hearing for Temp. Child Support, Spousal Support and Visitation were set on March 12. H is giving me the money required, but is not sticking to the visitation. He wants me to be flexible, but he won't.

He agreed verbally in front of both Lawyers to do some things that he is now backing out on, so am having to take him back to court at the end of April to get those things addressed.

My L is threatening to withdraw from the case due to non-payment. Pisses me off, since he knew from day 1 that even though H is a doctor, this was not going to be a big money case. We just got all our debts (college, med school, practice start up costs) paid off about 3 years ago, and H had just started making really good money. We hadn't had much time to save or build up retirement or anything. All we have is our house, 2 well-used cars, and H's practice. (Small private practice with 2 other docs, but none of them are specialists.)

L also knew I was a stay at home mom with no access to any funds other than what H gives me. When I had to counterfile, my L asked the court to make H responsible for all attorney's fees. It was my understanding that was something that would be decided by the judge at the end of the case during the settlement phase, so I'm pretty p.o.'d that L is changing things mid-stream and demanding payment now.

Of course, if he does withdraw, I would have to get a new lawyer, which would make a final D take a lot longer......don't know which route to go.

As for H, he is back to anger stage. If I don't give in to his every request, he spews. (Helped along by OW, I am sure. And I'm not just speculating, I KNOW.)

At the same time, H wants me to still fulfill wifely duties---he wants me to take care of all the details. He wants a D, he wants the house on the market, but expects me to do all the work for it.

It's pretty much the same for the kids' stuff, too. He expects me to keep him informed about everything and take care of all the paperwork and scheduling, even when it's his time for visitation. I don't think he really misses the kids right now or cares what they are up to, as it interferes with his fantasy world, but since he has to at least play the part of Daddy, he wants me to take care of it all. When he was home I always told him what the kids had going on and where to be and when to be there. He still expects that, except now he just says no if he's got something better to do. And if I don't do it, he blames his absence on me. (He has S9's soccer schedule, but since I didn't call or text to remind him of that specific game day and time, he just didn't show up, then told S9 "Mommy didn't tell me you had a game.")

I think OW keeps him on an exceptionally short leash. Don't know if he realizes it yet. She may be doing it very sweetly, but she is leashing him. Wish he would wake up and see it.

At Temp. Orders meeting, H agreed to do some counseling, for the kids' sake. We went to one C session, and it was about as I expected. H lied about our M, our kids, his parents, everything. Said there was no hope for reconciling, he was done, he couldn't even remember the last time he had loved me, he had moved on, etc. Said he was only there because he wanted to help the kids. HAH!

I went to one individual C session, and H has his individual session scheduled for tomorrow, but don't know if he will keep the appt. He got mad at something and wrote me an email yesterday about money saying he would no longer pay for individual C sessions. I don't know if he was referring just to my sessions, or if he meant he wouldn't go at all.

I just left C a phone message, so waiting to hear back.

Realtor was here to look over house last Thurs., but have not heard back from her yet. I'm not in too much hurry, except that I will need to get a good selling price to be able to buy something for me and the kids.

Final court date is currently set for August 4, but will probably be moved back at least once, since issues we discussed at Temp. Orders meeting have still not been addressed and may take several weeks to complete. And if my L does drop out, it may be a whole lot later than August!

[tpaschal]

Just posted on Cagzmom's thread about her in-law sitch, and I've been meaning to post something on my own thread about my own in-law sitch.

So.....My in-laws are totally disgusted with my H's behavior, and have told him very plainly that OW will never be welcome in their home, and would never be accepted into the family. Now, would that change down the line if he married her and had children with her? I have no idea. I don't think MIL would change her mind, but I'm not sure about FIL.

They stayed out of his sight and out of his way for several months after he moved out, when he was spewing as much or more anger at them (for not supporting him in leaving?) as he was toward me.

MIL and FIL have been a big part of my support system over the past year, and spend a lot of time with me and the kids. (Yes, they are also hyper-critical and controlling, and drive me NUTS on occasion!)

They slowly tried to regain a connection with H, and we did do H and S9's joint b-day at their house, which was okay, and all met there again for Christmas Eve, which was a disaster. It took about 6 weeks to recover from the disaster, and then for a while H was talking to MIL and FIL some and stopping by their house on the weekends when he had the kids.

But that has ended. Right now there is open animosity between my H and MIL. She is not a quiet or patient or tactful woman, even in the best of times. She has done a pretty good job of not being nasty to H too often over the past year, but lately she has reached her limit due to several things that have happened. H has recently lied to them and tried to manipulate them, and they are furious at that and for H's thoughtless behavior toward the kids. When FIL saw H at S9's soccer game last weekend, he said, "My God, son, what has become of you?" MIL told H he was a loser, and asked how dare he treat his kids this way, etc., etc. It was not pretty.

But is this good? I don't know. I can't control the in-laws, but it seems to me that their behavior is just going to push H further away, and closer to the OW and her family. Nothing will bring him back right now, but to push him further away doesn't seem smart either.

MIL wants to go see the C that H and I went to, and FIL might go, too.

I just left C a phone message, so waiting to hear back.

They also want to write H a scathing email regarding some of the things he's done lately (lying to them, ignoring the kids, treating the kids badly) but I think maybe they need to go NC just as much as I do?

Any thoughts on the in-law sitch? As I said, I can't control them, but anyone here have experience or wisdom or advice I could relate to them on how their behavior could help or hurt?

[cat03]

Hey there, sorry things are going badly with the L! that's awful! hope he doesn't drop out.

About IL's same here, MIL (the surviving parent) has told H how he had surpassed his dad (H hated his dad who was bipolar and abusive to them). H did tell me on occasions how her banter didnt' help and he just stopped talking to her. I told MIL that we had to let him go, if he had to fall on his face to learn so bit it, that if his life was going to be heck with ow, then let it be, that that was the only way he was going to learn. Eventually MIL got it, and even on one occasion H was calling me she told me not to pick up the phone, to let him squirm, to let him hang.

Perhaps talk to your MIL and explain her that no sense can be talked into him, that he had to decide by himself what was right, and that that may not happen any time soon.

[momof2girls]

hi there...
I am sure your IL's are so embarrassed by your H's behavior. My IL's were mortified by the way H just up and left...

Try not to let their anger fuel you. I used to talk to MIL all the time and the one time I stood up to H regarding visitation of the children my IL's said H and I were both stubborn and they didn't appreciate not being able to see the kids. Mind you, I never held the kids from them but H was not following visitation so I told him follow it or don't take the kids...so he didn't on a day the Il's were supposed to see them.

They kind of blamed me too, and now they don't even talk about what went on while we were S...kind of like it never happened. Not sure I like that either!

My IL's are fantastic people but they are still H's family. I guess what I am trying to say is to use them as a support system but don't let them pour too much of their disgust about H on you. If H and his mom reconciled their differences tomorrow, would she still continue to be a true supporter of you?

[tpaschal]

Eventually MIL got it, and even on one occasion H was calling me she told me not to pick up the phone, to let him squirm, to let him hang.

Perhaps talk to your MIL and explain her that no sense can be talked into him, that he had to decide by himself what was right, and that that may not happen any time soon.

Cat,

See, that's the weird thing. My MIL actually agrees with NC, not answering the phone, not owing him any explanations when he asks nosy questions, etc., but thinks that when we DO have contact because of kid stuff or whatever, I should be tough on him---as in, sarcastic! Maybe she's just worried that I'm being a doormat, but she doesn't see that I'm trying to be firm but act "as if" at the same time.

She doesn't understand acting "as if." I can no longer act as if our marriage is going to be fine, but......

I can act as if I know that God is taking care of me, no matter what the outcome is. As if I am fine and happy. As if my life is going great. I can be firm and not be a doormat while still acting as if I am the bigger person. I can be a kind and gracious person even in the face of his venom. Responding with venom just lets him justify what he's doing because I'm a beyotch. I refuse to let that be the truth.

THAT is what MIL can't understand.

She's not calling him up or anything, (though she does want to write him an email right now), but when she does see him at soccer games and such, she just has to make nasty comments to him.

She thinks it makes him stop and think, but I'm afraid it will just hurt the sitch more in the long run. I mean, if he ever does stop and think about what he's doing, or even think about coming home, her nastiness will not be a point in our favor.

It would just be one more hurdle he would have to face.

Maybe if they go see the Counselor, he will be able to explain it better than me.

[tpaschal]

hi there...
I am sure your IL's are so embarrassed by your H's behavior. My IL's were mortified by the way H just up and left...

They kind of blamed me too, and now they don't even talk about what went on while we were S...kind of like it never happened. Not sure I like that either!

My IL's are fantastic people but they are still H's family. I guess what I am trying to say is to use them as a support system but don't let them pour too much of their disgust about H on you. If H and his mom reconciled their differences tomorrow, would she still continue to be a true supporter of you?

Momof2,

Hello! Yes, my IL's are embarrassed. In the past, when people heard their last name and said, "Oh, are you Dr. So-and-so's parents?" they were so proud to say yes, and talk about their wonderful son the doctor, and his wonderful family, and so on.

Now? They dread it. My MIL told me just a few days ago that now when people ask her that, she just says "Mmm-hmm," and doesn't say anything more, just gives them a distant, faint smile if they keep talking about H.

My IL's do blame me, too, especially my FIL. Of course, he had serial affairs throughout the first 25 years of their marriage, and he always blamed his wife. (She suspected, he always denied, and it was never confirmed until very late in the marriage. They separated once for 18 months but reconciled.)

So, it's my FIL's pattern to blame the woman in a man's life for anything he does wrong. What matters most to FIL is how badly H is treating the kids. That really flabbergasts him. He can't wrap his mind around it, and that's why he's been so supportive of me and the kids.

MIL is a very critical person in general, and tells me everything I've done wrong, and what I continue to do wrong!, but she also knows that this is H's problem and even if I did things wrong, the way he's handling things now really has nothing to do with me. She lived it her whole married life.

So I'm not sure that she and my H will ever be able to reconcile as long as he's in MLC. If he ever comes out of MLC, even if H and I never get back together, she might be able to have a relationship with him again. And I would want that for them.

[cagzmom]

Hey there sweet TP (not talking toilet paper either!!)HA!! I know I know so funny.

Sooo I have been reading your post - yes the one that locked and now onto here... my thoughts for YOU.

First and foremost - you and I are in teh same boat. The age of the OW. THE OW. Remember my bimbo officially moved in last week - she even asked h "do you ever think about getting married again....??" OK he isn't even DIVORCED YET BIMBO!! and lets think H is such an idiot he told me. BUT htat isn't what I wanted to post. What I wanted to say my friend is this. WE *yes that is you and me - need to get our focus off the BIMBO. That is what she is. Yes I agree she is a "oh so troubled soul..and bla bla bla...and I think we need to ask God to help us get to a place of forgiveness (As you can see I am not there). BUT the more we THINK about them the more waisted energy -- teh less we have for OURSELVES and who we are.

Your H and the possible D. You know TP that I have been waivering on what to do. What DBing really is and all of that. You DO know that your H is a mess--- I mean come on --- you KNOW it. YOU KNOW that his head inside is totally messed up --- and I know you are like me...WE WERE AND STILL ARE TEH GLUE. BUt here is teh deal....we have to let them go to break.

In my h's suicide note that is kinda what he wrote---that I was the one person that tried to help him....well guess what it didn't work AND it wasnt my job. WE need to let them go.....all the way. FOR THEM and more importnatly for YOUR OWN SELF.

The kids-whats best for them? I would STRONGLY suggest asking the C to deal with the kids when it comes to time with their dad. My C for my daughter has been really really helpful. Keep them in counseling...it is a safe place for them....they can say they miss thier dad and it doesn't hurt YOU..they can be honest and open and learn how to make boundaries and watch out for their own hearts. Your H will screw up, miss his times with them...or he could be like my H and show up on time as Disney Dad on his wonderful every other weekend...(yes all of his 4 days a month...)See they are distorted and messed up...our job is to hold the glue together at home.

YOu have come so far in teh past month. Seriouslly. Letting go---it is a good thing. I don't know how it is happening with me..but I am. And learning how to stand EVEN if we are D...I dont get it either..but we can do it..many before us have and they have gone on to become outstanding, fantastic, wonderful strong and beautiful men and women!

Good night my new friend...you are doing amazing!

[Stillnlove]

Tpascahl,

Now that I look back, I can see that H probably started going through some of his disillusionment as long as 5 or 6 years ago. ...Actually, I don't think at that point he was disillusioned. I think at that point he was genuinely trying to work on himself... We talked a lot about the books, though I never read them with him. We did have some serious conversations, and sometimes I would gently tease him that he seemed to be awfully down on himself if he thought he needed so much improving. I told him I thought he was already terrific, so why so much searching?

Could he have at that time thought that he was trying to grow and further his Personal Development and you were not? Perhaps he saw you as staying in the same place and that he was surpassing you--not because of his actions, but because of your comments and inactions.

He also talked about his feelings of insecurity and inferiority with other doctors. I already knew of these feelings, and had always done my best to help him examine them, to see if there was any merit, but mostly just to offer support and reassure him that his feelings of insecurity and inferiority were unmerited. I tried to build him up. Guess I didn't do a great job of it.

It is rather ironic, but in many ways what you were doing was invalidating the feelings he had for himself. It was a good thing to believe in him and try to build him up. But doing this by trying to show him that his feelings were without merit backfired. To him that meant you didn't get it and were not listening to him. He wanted to be built up and he wanted help finding his strength, but support and reassurance without tangible structure are meaningless. He felt like a house of cards and you tried to show him how wonderful a house of cards he was. Helping someone find strength is an active endeavour.
A person feels important when others listen without dismissing their feelings. It is wonderful that you thought he was great, and I believe that form some belief in Self starts when others believe in you. But eventually that is not enough. Why? Maybe it was because you didn't back up your belief in concrete ways that he could understand. As his wife, perhaps you became a mother figure, and Mom is supposed to love you, no matter what.

But in other ways he seems VERY detached. Otherwise, how could a father go three solid weeks without speaking to or laying eyes on his three children who only live 10 minutes away?

That's not how Detached works. Detached is when your emotions are not tied to his and vice versa. Avoidance of the children doesn't indicate Detachment. Selfishness, perhaps, confusion, certainly. We do not know his emotional context, but avoiding the children and you may be perfectly sensible within his emotional context.
Perhaps he fears what he would do in their presence.
Perhaps it hurts him more than he can bear when he sees them.
Perhaps he is simply so ashamed that he cannot bring himself to face them.
You don't know. But none of those possibilities have anything to do with being Detached, rather they are completely bound.

And he seems very detached from me now. The C said that in observing his body language in our joint C session 2 weeks ago, H seemed contemptuous of me.

Contempt is not an emotion of Detachment!

Does he? Does he know? Sometimes I think he must, but then when he insists on telling me what a good person she is, I wonder.

Is he telling you or trying to convince himself or make it real? Of course he insists on telling you she's a good person! He must be really awful if he were carrying on with a person he thinks is bad. But he does think he's awful and he thinks she is what he deserves. And yet he's not going to go around admitting he is awful and therefore he's chosen someone just as awful. She represents the level of his own emotional development and he is able to project easily onto her.

When he tells the C that he's realized he needs a different type of person in a relationship (having said this to me before, he knows I know that he's referring to all my "character flaws...

Is he really? Yes, consciously it may be your flaw that he is referencing. But what is the true reference?
He does need a different type of person. Fortunately he's got one and it is you. You are no longer the person he married. You have grown and matured. You are different. But perhaps your development and his were not in synch and he is at a loss.

But he's still determined to press forward with a divorce. So now what? It's hard to know what the right path is.

You are asking for active suggestions.

Yes, you are right. I want active suggestions. And lots of times I already have an idea of the action to take, but it helps me to talk out a course of action before committing to it.

One of your goals is to learn what to Do as a Stander? What does Paving A Safe Way mean, what actions does it entail?
Those may differ for each of us. The answers are within YOU.
The goal or result of the actions you take needs to be Personal Growth and Development, this will lead you to the answers within yourself. It is about Self focus and leads to your other goal of marital reconciliation. It does not guarantee it, but without it, reconciliation cannot work. You need to find and define who you are and since you are ever-changing, you will always be searching, finding and redefining. Life is the journey.
External change facilitates internal change. So what actions can you take to realize your Self goal?

What will help you focus on yourself?
What can you do for you alone?
What have you always wanted to do or do again--old hobbies?
Can you create a tangible goal that you can measure? Perhaps create a series of smaller goals that will lead to the larger Self-Goal. The goal of marital reconciliation is not completely within your control; you can only do your part. Measure only the goals that are completely within your control.

How can you translate Personal Growth and Development into a measurable goal?
What can you do that will facilitate your growth?
How will you know that you have grown?

List items in each of the following 4 categories

• Spiritual
  Meditation
  Yoga
  Create something--Art
  
• Mental
  Read books
  Take a class
  Create something--Art
  
• Physical
  Gym
  Find the runner's high
  Yoga
  
• Social
  Take a class
  Next time you have tickets to a play, ask a friend.

The hardest part is trying to picture a happy future without him. I can kind of sort of picture a future without H, but right now that picture still has very little joy or happiness in it.

I'm a fan of visualizations, but if it's not working, stop relying on it. If you can't picture it, create it and then picture what you've created. You are looking for something that is not there, and the only reason it is not there is because you have not put it there...yet.

I know I'm still focused too much on what I'm losing, what the kids and I will be missing.

So, what can you focus on instead?
Find the positives and focus on them. If you can't think of the positives, make something up and then make them real.
You choose your focus.

As for H, he is back to anger stage. If I don't give in to his every request, he spews.

That is not the Anger STAGE, its just Anger. The Anger Stage of MLC is about MLC. He is simply Angry.

Right now there is open animosity between my H and MIL. ...lately she has reached her limit due to several things that have happened... MIL told H he was a loser, and asked how dare he treat his kids this way, etc., etc. It was not pretty.
But is this good? I don't know. ...Nothing will bring him back right now, but to push him further away doesn't seem smart either.

I don't know either. But pushing or not, he is going to go further away. Maybe this is part of what needs to happen in order to separate him from the influence of his parents--separate the little boy within. He needs to venture out and find his own solutions. Maybe his Mom pushing him away will be a good thing.
I'm not saying it's good; I'm merely offering a different perspective.

Responding with venom just lets him justify what he's doing because I'm a beyotch. I refuse to let that be the truth.

THAT is what MIL can't understand.

She's not calling him up or anything...but when she does see him at soccer games and such, she just has to make nasty comments to him.

She thinks it makes him stop and think, but I'm afraid it will just hurt the sitch more in the long run. I mean, if he ever does stop and think about what he's doing, or even think about coming home, her nastiness will not be a point in our favor.

It would just be one more hurdle he would have to face.

You are both right. Her word may make him stop and think in the manner she intends. Or not. Or he will file them away, Re-Act to them angrily now and process them later when he is further along. Also consider that she is not you and thus she can say things that you cannot and vice versa. It is also important to learn that there are times when a vent from you is necessary. The difficulty is learning which times are appropriate and how to do it without going overboard.

But you already realize it...you cannot control your MIL; you need to Let it Go.

[inmyplace]

Stillinlove,

2 posts. Is that all? Tell us who you really are.

IMP

[tpaschal]

Stillinlove,

2 posts. Is that all? Tell us who you really are.

IMP

IMP,

Does it matter?

I found the boards about a year ago, after reading DR, but I've only been around regularly for about 2 months now. So while I've read a lot, I don't know all the players, the histories, or the politics. And while I have my own opinions on some of the things that have happened recently, I've kept them to myself because that's not the reason I'm here.

I thought the purpose of this board was to seek, receive, and give help to and from others who have gone through, or are currently going through a mid-life-crisis situation in their own real lives. To get and give advice on how to save a marriage when MLC is a factor, and failing that, to help the LBS move forward with life.

THAT is why I am here.

So if someone has something constructive or helpful to offer me, or if they can just commiserate with me so I know I'm not alone in this, I welcome it, no matter who they are.

If you have some helpful or construtive advice to give me, or even some of the bluntly worded 2x4's that I've read from you on others' threads, I welcome that.

If you do not have anything to offer that pertains to my sitch, then I would prefer not to become embroiled in board politics.

I have prayed to God in praise and thankfulness for the existence of this board and for leading me here. I believe that God has lead me here for a purpose---to give me support and guidance, and to show me that there IS a plan and hope for my future, whether H ever returns or not. So if a post helps give me that support and guidance, if it helps me find that hope, then I honestly don't care who it's from.

Thanks for stopping by.

Sincerely,
TPaschal