Hope4us' Struggle, part 2

[Snow White]

It does, a lot of days, mostly if I chose for it to suck and actually adress the situation. Otherwise we are a happy family flirting laughing and dying inside.

I haven't forgot about the boardwalk in October!

[Hope4us]

Well, I just got a response from WW. It wasn't pretty. I'll quote a few things.

"she's not willing to operate under these conditions". She feels my letter is asking her to be controlled by me, much like a prison inmate.

She wants me to believe what she says is true. How do you respond to that when someone has done nothing but lie to you for over a year?

She's not going to prove herself to me. I either take her as she is, apologetic, perhaps a little broken but by no means groveling, or not at all.

She thinks my letter is all about me. I'm doing nothing but putting demands on her. She thinks I've tried to make her look bad in everyone's eyes.

She says she's not going anywhere until DS16 graduates.

It says alot more, but that's the gist.

HELP.

[macflyer]

i am sorry,
In a way it is all about you, it's called feeling safe with her. Little does she know it will change her for the better to meet the simple things. Trust is like credit easy to get the first time, but a lot harder to be given the second time.
I am Praying For you

Macflyer

[LL44]

My H has listed in the past the things *I* would have to change in order for him to 'come back.' Other than the silly infidelity, he doesn't see a thing he would have to do. I have told him that is simply not true, but would not list anything for him, as he isn't anywhere near able to listen.

Puppy is needed here.

I have a feeling you shouldn't 'back down' and remind her that this is about BOTH of you repairing this marriage together and yes, because of the trust she broke, she will need to help rebuild it.

Mac is right, she can't see now that meeting you at least halfway would really help things.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hope,

I'm sorry she's being so stubborn; I know this sukks.

I would send her a very short response:

"Wife,

I'm so very sorry that you still feel this way. I had really hoped that you would want to end your affair, and come back and work on our marriage.

I'm not going to respond to all of your points, because frankly I owe you nothing at this point, but the sad fact is that i DON'T trust you, and that trust was killed ENTIRELY by your own selfish decision to have an affair.

Still, I was willing to forgive, and to work on our marriage, including my own issues.

As for "making you look bad," I"m afraid you've done that to yourself, and I will no longer lie for you nor shelter you from the consequences of your own poor decisions.

I do thank you for your clarity in your response, however -- it helps me make my decisions.

-Hope"

[macflyer]

Hope it is up to you now. How much more you can take? Are you going to show your boys a man of his word?

Just a thought.

Mac

[Hope4us]

Well, I may have wimped out some, but I responded to her note point by point. Don't know if it's acceptable to say here, but I've been working with Marriage Builders and if you're familiar with them, it seems that she's gone from the withdrawal state to the conflict state which is necessary before you can move into the intimacy state. I figure as long as she's dumping on me, at least she's sharing her feelings and that's what I NEED to begin to break down the wall that's between us.

I didn't want to throw down the gauntlet if she's at least TALKING to me about it. That's the first step in WORKING on the marriage. We'll see how she responds. I can always pull out the plan FU if I need to.

I'll let you know how she responds.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Well, I may have wimped out some, but I responded to her note point by point. Don't know if it's acceptable to say here, but I've been working with Marriage Builders and if you're familiar with them, it seems that she's gone from the withdrawal state to the conflict state which is necessary before you can move into the intimacy state. I figure as long as she's dumping on me, at least she's sharing her feelings and that's what I NEED to begin to break down the wall that's between us.

I didn't want to throw down the gauntlet if she's at least TALKING to me about it. That's the first step in WORKING on the marriage. We'll see how she responds. I can always pull out the plan FU if I need to.

I'll let you know how she responds.

Hope,

I'm not only familiar with MB's concepts, I'm an advocate of them. I own many of Dr. Harley's books. You're misunderstanding their teaching: they teach that you cannot even move INTO the withdrawal stage (much less the subsequent "conflict" stage) until the OM is completely out of the picture. In fact, that is precisely WHY the MB folks are so strong about "no-contact" and "transparency" plans, so that you can start the painful withdrawal process, and begin to work the marriage back thru the stages toward conflict and then intimacy.

Go re-read Harley -- you're way off base if you think that's what they're teaching. NOTHING your wife is throwing at you now is anything other than FOG, in my opinion.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

Thanks Puppy. The first thing I thought was HEAVY FOG ALERT in Eastern Ohio.

Maybe I didn't understand that part about the conflict/withdrawal stages of marriage I guess. I just thought as long as she was at least talking/sharing it was a good thing. And she's definitely angry which may indicate NC, but I doubt it.

I thought I'd try to reason with her this time, not that you can reason with a wayward. I'm going to talk to her tonight, tell her that NC is an absolute minimum. I'm going to ask her what she has done that SHOWS me I can trust her? Because this time, she's really telling the truth, not like the last year when she said she was telling the truth? If she won't agree to NC then I'm going to see a lawyer. She's also trying to get me to not tell the kids anything more. Nope, that won't happen. If I'm going to see a lawyer, they're going to know why. I'll also tell her she can do the right thing and move out nicely or she can make me spend DS19's college money to make her move.

Maybe I dropped the ball. Was probably the time to put the nail in the A coffin, but I blew that. Oh well, I can always regroup. Let her know I was throwing her an olive branch but obviously she is still so f'd up over OM that she didn't see it and I won't put up with it any longer. I'll get in there that I'm sorry she see's it as controlling that I have to have her agree to NC, but I won't take anything less and see what she says.

[Hope4us]

I was just re-reading what I sent her in reply and the good thing is I NEVER moved away from my boundaries. Never once said I still didn't require those things I've listed as having to have in order to try to make our marriage work.

Phew....