I don't agree, married people should have nothing to hide from each other. You would not feel the need to snoop if she had not given you reason to. She is completely out of line here. Nothing you did is an excuse for her to treat you this way. I am tired of all the psycho-babble mumbo jumbo folks. Come on, lets have some self respect and hold adults accountable.
OK, I have put on my asbestos suit....flame away folks. I am just so tired of the the victims of infidelity being made to feel like the ones to blame. I am not speaking to anyone in particulars post. Just the overall tone that I get from time to time on this board. Kolle I feel for you man, I am there but there is no excuse for her behavior and you should not feel responsible. We all have our faults and short comings, but that is no excuse to be treated so poorly by the ones we are closest to.
I don't agree, married people should have nothing to hide from each other. You would not feel the need to snoop if she had not given you reason to. She is completely out of line here. Nothing you did is an excuse for her to treat you this way. I am tired of all the psycho-babble mumbo jumbo folks. Come on, lets have some self respect and hold adults accountable.
OK, I have put on my asbestos suit....flame away folks. I am just so tired of the the victims of infidelity being made to feel like the ones to blame. I am not speaking to anyone in particulars post. Just the overall tone that I get from time to time on this board. Kolle I feel for you man, I am there but there is no excuse for her behavior and you should not feel responsible. We all have our faults and short comings, but that is no excuse to be treated so poorly by the ones we are closest to.
The problem is, I did it for a year and it got me nowhere.
I LOVE MY WIFE and want her back!! And what she does is completely wrong and out of line.
BUT
I snoop. I see she's been talking to OM. I'm hurt. I fight with her. I call her a ho. I break things.
2 things happen: 1) I activate her guilt. She feels bad. I am the one who makes her feel bad. She runs even faster from me. 2) I act like an A$$h*le because of her infedility (It is the natural response to being hurt). Her mind goes: "God this guy is an a$$h*le, I must have been mad to fall in love with him in the first place. What was I thinking when I got married to him? How many sleeps until he moves out?
W made the final decision to D the moment I contacted her EA buddy to tell him to leave my W alone.
Does it make sense? NO! Is it rational? NO! Thats why I posted before that WAWs live in Fairyland. That is the reality I have to deal with.
If I want to save my marriage I have to avoid two things: --Make her feel guilty. --Validate her choice to regard me as an a$$h*le and to get a divorce.
I believe once I have won her back (I hope!) she will come around and deal with her guilt in an appropriate, adult way.
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
I snoop. I see she's been talking to OM. I'm hurt. I fight with her. I call her a ho. I break things.
Why are the only two options here "1. Do nothing" or "2. Call her a ho and break things"??? There is a third way: learn to set firm boundaries, and practice loving detachment. So long as you operate from a position of emotional reactivity, you will not accomplish what you want. Can you work on your self-control, and read up more on "detachment," and get to a point where you can work more calmly?
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W made the final decision to D the moment I contacted her EA buddy to tell him to leave my W alone.
This is almost never true in cases of infidelity. It's almost 100% certain that that's what a wayward spouse will SAY to you if you confront them or expose their affair, but it's also b.s. It's a near certainty that she and her boyfriend had already long since discussed YOUR marriage's impending divorce, before you even knew what was going on with the two of them.
Quote:
If I want to save my marriage I have to avoid two things: --Make her feel guilty. --Validate her choice to regard me as an a$$h*le and to get a divorce.
I agree. The goal in confronting a cheating spouse about an affair is not to "make them feel guilty," it is to get them out of "fantasyland" as you call it and to begin to deal from a basis of truth. It is also to let them know what YOUR personal boundaries are, and what you're willing to tolerate and not tolerate. It's entirely up to them as to what they choose to do about it.
As far as "validating her choice to regard (you) as an a-hole," again, I agree. People in affairs will almost always try to pick fights with their betrayed spouses, so that they can get angry reactions out of you, so they can then justify to themselves, to their affair partners, and to friends and family "See? This is how he is. I can't live with this man!!!" So DON'T ENGAGE. Be the man of character and integrity that you seem to be. Be loving, but no "ILYs." Be kind and considerate, but don't pursue her or get all needy/grabby.
Kolle, I'd encourage you to think hard about the whole, vast gray area that lies in between confronting your wife with anger and name-calling, and passively being a doormat and sticking your head in the sand. The people that I've seen have good success on this board have been those that have combined all of the principles of working on themselves, "GAL," "being the better option," etc., WHILE establishing -- and enforcing -- firm boundaries.
Your advice is very sound. Unfortunately I don't think I am at the point where I can follow what she does and not get emotional and attack her. Less than a week ago I saw her chatting with a guy on IM and it completely freaked me out to the point where I made a crappy comment, and things went downhill from there. So for the time being, until I'm a bit more grownup, I think it is probably safer not to snoop. She knows where my boundaries are.
The OM that I contacted was only an EA (unlike the first guy), not PA. I asked her for three months to stop contacting him, she refused. The night before I contacted him (11/2007) we ML for the very last time. The next day everything was different. The guy cut contact from his side, I think he thought I was too much trouble. W only finally told me that we would D 6 weeks later, but I know the decision was made the day I ruined her friendship by making contact.
Again, I think your advice is completely spot on. Thanx!!
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
Yep! Kolle, you got it, don't snoop because you can't handle it! If you still want her, and prayers to you for wanting her, step away from the sitch and stop calling her names. Just more justification for her abnoxious behavior. Best of luck in the situation.
My W. had an emotinal infidelity attack for 7 months and still talks to him, but in her words "it is only like once a month so it is okay." If they can't share it and have conversations in front of you then it is inappropriate. End of Story!
Married:10 years D final 8/28/08 10 minutes is all it took Life goes on and DB was no small part in growing from the Divorce!
With all due respect, kolle, I would submit to you that maybe she doesn't.
Ask yourself this, and try to be honest with yourself:
Assuming that people judge us more by our ACTIONS than by our WORDS (and I think most people would agree with this), DOES your wife really know where your boundaries are???
Let me put it another way. What, specifically, have you DONE (not "said", but "done") with regards to her adulterous and disrespectful behavior, much of it done right in front of you, that would lead her to believe that there are serious consequences to her destructive behavior?
After I first discovered her sexual online affair I told her if she contacted the guy again I would move out. This was in march last year. She refused to stop (addicted) and I moved out, but only for a night. I was too scared of losing her and I came back and started a destructive cycle of begging her and cursing and screaming at her. The more I begged and cursed, the more she clung to the OM, although they stopped writing pornographic letters. Eventually I contacted this guy's employer and he was almost fired (He did all his internet sex on a computer at work during office hours) Well that was the end of that affair. W and I were in therapy when she had her second OA, but this one was only emotional. Again I told her that we could not be married if she continued, but since I was not sure wether she was really in the wrong and if I was maybe overjealous I did nothing for three months except begging, screaming and cursing. Remember it was a purely "platonic" friendship. After two therapists told me it was an affair and wrong, and I was right to feel angry and cheated, I contacted the guy and told him to leave my wife alone.
That was the end of my marriage.
So yes, I used a lot of WORDS, which made it worse. I also took ACTION. Unfortunately I took the wrong action and my marriage ended in a bang.
The other night when she sat chatting for hours with another guy I told her again that dating other guys before we were divorced was completely unacceptable, even if it was in cyberspace. Of course she told me that since she was divorcing me it was none of my business and I should bugger off. She's not my W anymore and I have no claim over her and that is that.
She knows that what she did was wrong, she all but admitted it for the first time the other night at the therapist. (We go for divorce mediation) But since we are not a couple anymore it is not wrong anymore, in her eyes.
So make no mistake, she knows.
Begging, crying, shouting, cursing and wooing does not work. I found that out much too late after I stumbled onto this website and got Michele's book.
Incidentally: My new marriage therapist calls the emotional affair an energy leak. Anything that steals energy from your marriage relationship is wrong. It makes a lot of sense to me. My computer addiction was also wrong (it stole energy from our R), so I suppose my W has enough reason to be angry at me.
Fortunately I have been healed of that.
Kolle
Me 43 W 42 M 1998 S16 S15 D7 D4 bomb 07/03/2007 OPA ILYBNILWY My Thread
She is still your wife, and until the divorce is finalized, I would tell her that it is a personal boundary for you for her to carry on her sexual dalliances from inside of your home. If she wants, she can go outside in the rain and have phone sex on her cellphone while standing in the yard.
