Hello all - I have posted before (look for my posts under the name SamCatMom), but the situation has changed and I could use some collective wisdom here. Long story short, our marriage was obviously in trouble about a year and a half ago. My husband raised some issues, we went for help, he asked for a D in March 07. Came back May 07 and said he feared he was making a huge mistake.
We had what I thought was a good spring and summer, got back into a bit of a rut in late fall, and now we're almost back to where we were before. Although, we are talking more and being more aware of what we've been doing to each other.
The real issue for him (and I agree) is that we have what amounts to a huge disconnect between us. He feels as though we just aren't clicking, we're not communicating about real things, and he has a hard time feeling affectionate toward me without that connection. It's not sex that is the issue, it's true intimacy.
I don't dispute what he's saying. He says I tend to display more of my brain than my heart, and what he really needs is all that emotion and "real stuff" inside of me. However, I have not always been the best at doing that, not even always aware of how I am in fact feeling, and this comes from a long history of growing up with an alcoholic father and a sometimes cold and dysfunctional-in-her-own-way mother. I don't mean them any disrespect, and I do love them, but they were not great parents.
Bottom line was in my house, you kept your head down and painted a pretty face on top of whatever you were feeling because you learned early that your own feelings were secondary to what was happening in the house. Going to school was a tremendous escape and relief, and I was able to channel alot of that energy into my studies and extracurricular activities.
I didn't realize just how much I was disconnected from myself until my husband and I started counseling. He would say things like "if you can't tell [that] to me, your husband, who are you going to tell?" and it wouldn't matter what we were talking about ... I just tend to keep things inside of me, I have always handled things on my own, and I have probably harbored a fear that if he really did know the REAL me, he would find he didn't like it all that much. And that's not fair to him, I totally realize that.
So where we are at now is that we are trying to determine our next steps. Neither of us are happy, but I give him credit for not running out on me. He says he wants us to hopefully find our way back to each other, but he honestly doesn't know if he has enough left. We are discussing separating, to see whether that gives us each some perspective and space. Our main concern is our daughter, who's 7.
I am still working with our counselor to get stronger at just SAYING WHAT IS ON MY MIND no matter how awkward it is or how scary it may be. And I am getting better, bit by bit. And I'm liking it, I really am. It's kind of liberating and not so tiring to always be analyzing what I SHOULD say or what I SHOULD do in a certain situation.
My question for all of you on this board is: what can I do to ensure I'm doing everything I can to give our marriage a chance, while still ensuring that I'm taking care of myself? Or does a separation sound like a viable option at this point? I love him and I want so much for us to have that life we always wanted but got tripped up along the way! I see now how much my actions (and inactions) have contributed to where we are, although I know he has had a hand in this too (with his conflict avoidance and "seemingly" laid-back attitude (til about a year and a half ago).
Can we get past the past, so to speak? We're both just very sad that we've basically wasted a few really good years on our dysfunction, and we don't know if we're able to get on a good path. He is of the mind (as you may recall from earlier posts) that if we are going to be connected, it will just organically happen out of the work we are both doing. I believe, however, that we have to set some time together to try things and just spend time together, even if it feels awkward at first. But I can't push him. That doesn't work at all (as I learned before).
I don't want my tendency to not speak honestly about what I want and need to ambush us all over again.
Thank you for listening. I so very much believe that our marriage can be saved and even stronger than before, but I am also scared that it's too late.
Have you tried retro? It's meant to be very good at getting couples to communicate effectively. I understand it doesn't try to force it's catholic backing on to the participants and is well structured and non threatening.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I recommend reading Chapman's book on the Five Love Languages together. It can be very helpful in figuring out how to express your love to your partner in a way that they can hear.
Also - for you - realize that the "protective" walls you have up AREN'T protecting you, in fact, they are causing you to lose what you value (your marriage).
Saffie is right. A Retrouvaille weekend might be just the start you need to meaningful communication. The entire weekend is devoted to learning to communicate your inner feelings to your spouse. And learning to listen with your heart to what your spouse is saying. The website is http://www.helpourmarriage.org. There is a list of places and dates where weekends are held. I highly recommend the program. It changed my life, and the way my husband and I relate to each other. We wasted many years in dysfunction. Don't worry, You are not alone.
I know things seem really rough right now, but there are MANY positive things in your situation:
1. your H is still interested in working things out, even though he has expressed to you that he has doubts.
2. AND, what he wants from you is True Emotional Intimacy! SCM, so many people on this board would give ANYTHING to hear that from their spouse.... that is amazingly solid ground upon which to build. That is truly, truly, beautiful. Hold fast to that. What your H wants is for you to open up and share yourself and be vulnerable... of course that is terrifying but it sounds like it is already so healing for you and such an amazing basis on which to build amazing love.
3. ALSO, it is AWESOME that you have found out about this issue of not sharing your emotions! that is SO, so, so huge.
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He says I tend to display more of my brain than my heart, and what he really needs is all that emotion and "real stuff" inside of me.
I wanted to write to you because I just realized in the past couple months that I have the same issue, or maybe a variation on it. I am very comfortable acknowledging my emotions to myself, but some emotions (like anger) are really hard for me to share with others. Also, I have a strong habit of sharing my analysis of my emotions instead of my emotions themselves. Like what you're going through, it can really inhibit connection because I'm not actually sharing my feelings.
I have a couple thoughts I am going to just throw out there and see what you think:
-Can you go to individual counseling as well as couples counseling? I am in IC right now and I NEVER would have figured out these issues by myself, or maybe I would have noticed when I was 80 years old or something! It has *really* accelerated my growth.
-I think the first step, you probably totally already know this, is just to start bringing awareness to whatever feelings you're having and identifying them silently within yourself. I have been practicing this a lot. It sounds really basic but obviously for me it's not because it's not automatic. I'll stop and ask myself, "what am I feeling?" and then take a moment to acknowledge it. Sometimes if it is a really strong feeling I take longer to just experience the feeling, not go off into a narrative/story/analysis, but just experience it.
-Also, I have been trying is practicing expressing my feelings in "lower key" situations, to build up to expressing them in more intense situations. It's like training wheels or something.
-When I started dating my SO, long before any bombs dropped, I told him I was afraid if he knew how I felt he wouldn't like me, and that it was ackward to share my feelings and sometimes made me uncomfortable. (I think I expected him to read my mind or never feel ackward or something). He told me he believed that when you have ackward experiences you have with someone, you gradually exhaust your ackwardness until there is no more ackwardness left to be had!!! He really helped me learn to embrace the ackward moments and celebrate them, as part of the journey towards greater comfort. Maybe you could use this as your perspective too! Maybe you could even have a special saying together where you announce "I FEEL ACKWARD" and then laugh or hug each other. Or "ACWARD MOMENT".
-One thing I've learned, is that healing does not always feel good. But that is part of the process that we can embrace too
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he honestly doesn't know if he has enough left.
-it sounds like you guys have both been working really really hard. It could be very powerful to make a point of taking time to just do silly and fun things together. It is SO great that you are going to MC and working on intimacy issues and everything. But that can be so draining, and it sounds like your relationship could use some fresh air. Could you brainstorm a list of date ideas together, and each pick one and make a plan to do it? This can give you the energy and affection you need to keep doing the hard work of transformation.
SCM, I believe in you. I think what you are going through right now, even though it is so scary, is going to open you up so much. You will let go of so many things that aren't you, that you don't need to hold onto anymore. You are going to heal yourself, your own heart, and your relationship. By bringing this awareness into yourself, you will also set a great example for your daughter! You can transform yourself... with awareness and acceptance and loving communication. You are already on your way!!!!
I am rooting for you!! (((SAMCATMOM)))) transformer
"We had what I thought was a good spring and summer, got back into a bit of a rut in late fall, and now we're almost back to where we were before."
Hmmm...
"Although, we are talking more and being more aware of what we've been doing to each other."
I just think.. Why is this not working for you?
"It's not sex that is the issue, it's true intimacy."
What is intimacy for you?
"extracurricular activities"
Interesting. I just got a new tool. (Pay no attention to this).
"I didn't realize just how much I was disconnected from myself until my husband and I started counseling. He would say things like "if you can't tell [that] to me, your husband, who are you going to tell?" and it wouldn't matter what we were talking about ... I just tend to keep things inside of me, I have always handled things on my own, and I have probably harbored a fear that if he really did know the REAL me, he would find he didn't like it all that much. And that's not fair to him, I totally realize that."
I really like this. Goosebumps.
"So where we are at now is that we are trying to determine our next steps. Neither of us are happy, but I give him credit for not running out on me. He says he wants us to hopefully find our way back to each other, but he honestly doesn't know if he has enough left. We are discussing separating, to see whether that gives us each some perspective and space. Our main concern is our daughter, who's 7."
Neither are happy. He wants to.. Wait for it.... "Fix" it. He has NFC how. He is asking for "space".
"I am still working with our counselor to get stronger at just SAYING WHAT IS ON MY MIND no matter how awkward it is or how scary it may be. And I am getting better, bit by bit. And I'm liking it, I really am. It's kind of liberating and not so tiring to always be analyzing what I SHOULD say or what I SHOULD do in a certain situation."
OMG.. she said it. And it felt "funny"
So what do you want to say?
Here, I will push a little...
What is your Love Language?
What is his Love Language?
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Thank you for writing! I wanted to let you know that I am in individual counseling and it has helped tremendously! You don't realize how much pressure you put on yourself or how quick you are to take responsibility for things (that maybe you shouldn't) until someone objective weighs in. My counselor has been, in short, a lifeline.
My H has been supportive of this journey, but I do wonder whether it may be too late for him. I told him Friday - when we had a really great conversation - that I do feel like I'm chiseling away at a wall of ice and it's starting to seem thin enough in some spots where I'll actually get thru it. :o)
As far as awareness, that's a biggie for me. And it's one of the most frustrating things for my H. I tend to censor my thoughts, mask things in action or another train of thought, and then get upset when he can't figure out what I'm trying say. Duh!? As a simple example, while we were talking, he said something that I didn't quite agree with but I didn't even realize it. I got up out of bed and headed for the bathroom; he stopped me, asked me what was wrong and wouldn't let me off the hook. I didn't realize at the time anything WAS bothering me, that's how little self-awareness I am working with. And I hate it, let me tell you!
I have done a better job of telling him what I want and what I feel, and he let me know in no uncertain terms that I have every right to say what I want and demand what I want and settle for nothing less. So I think in a lot of ways, he's aching for that type of outspokenness, which I tend to display in every other situation except with him.
Yes, you are right and although I see that, it's not always easy to undo years of ingrained behavior, but god am I trying. RE: Retrouvaille weekends, I have heard of those and I've also gotten some information on the New Beginnings marriage workshops, but I haven't gone much further than that. I just got the Love Languages book and I am sure there will be some useful information there as well.
Ugh! Why does it all have to feel so hard some days? I try to focus on the good things in life, and there are many, but some days it would just seem easier to throw in the towel. I'm half-kidding, I would never give up, but I certainly never thought it would be this challenging. What I keep telling myself is that when we do get thru this - and I believe we will - neither of us will believe the strong bond we'll have. I want to have the marriage we both envision. I believe we can get there and I hope he still does too.
Hi there. I appreciate your writing but I have to say I'm not quite sure how to take all of your suggestions and analysis. Can you elaborate on what you see as the dark side? I really am curious to hear your perspective, I am.
