Thanks to you WAW's....

[Jay Scott]

who are here posting and taking time to give a little insight to us LBS's. I hope you all know that your insight and pov's are invaluable to me and I am sure many of the others. I know this is a forum for you all but I come here more and more because I desire so deeply to understand what happened to my wife. I want to know what happened to the women I slept next and with for so many years. I want to know what happened to the women who's hand I held and looked at in amazement as she gave birth to my children...to the women I spent my days and nights thanking God for.

She is not here anymore and she can not give me much of anything right now, so to here from you all who have walked in her shoes and had the fog of war lift from your lives....I thank you for your words and for your time.

[buenosuerte]

JayScott,

I dont know what advice i can give and i too look on here for guidance or just a soft spot. i've posed and gone withoug replies.

what is your sitch, i'll take a stab at it if you like...

[christarn]

Hi Jay, I am a WAW, who is now attempting to get my H to want to work on our R/M...but he goes and comes. It's a tough situation. A year ago in Jan, I brought two moving trucks to our home and packed everything conceivable, left nothing behind, but pictures of he and I. A few months later I realized what I had done, and reality hit and hit hard. I asked him to work on things, and like I said before he has been going back and forth ever since. He is sooo guarded. Each time he takes a baby step forward he retreats. I am happy to share more of my thoughts, or if you have and ?'s just ask. You can find my thread in the newbie section...it's called my crazy mess!!LOL!!

I wish the best for you, and your family. This is a hard place to be. Be patient with her, and calm, if anything she needs you to be a friend not a foe now. Take care of yourself, you can only control you!

Take care,
Christa

[Jay Scott]

Thanks Christa, I am indeed struggling with the friend not foe aspect of this. I think a lot of it is my pride but some is the anger about the kids too. It is hard to understand. I know she is not herself but she is not admitting any of that or seeing any of it. A lot could also be my impatience..... one thing she really had a problem with.

But I spoke with her a little while after reading your post and I had that in mind when I was talking to her. She came by and got the kids today and took them to buy them shoes and clothes. I called her and thanked her and was friendly as I could. I was genuinely thankful for her helping out like that and it was the first time in a few months that she has done anything for her kids.


I have to restate here that my wife said she was resentful of the kids for her not having a life now....that is deep. It is a hell of an admission to make and it must be a crappy state of mind to be in. I guess I need to move into a more understanding mode while not expecting to much from her. This is tough on me because I just hate what the kids are going through and I am doing my best to make their lives seem somewhat normal.

Anyway, your advice helped Christa, she said that she was happy to do it and said that she guessed it was her responsibility anyway. That was a huge step for her to say that.

I'll keep trying and you guys please be patient with me....the impatient one.

[christarn]

Glad it helped!! Just remember as my DB coach told me you have to learn to put down the rope. Think of a tug of war game, you are both pulling at each other, but if you put your end of the rope down, she has nobody to tug at any more. Remember this is about baby steps, and she made a baby step today! It takes a few baby steps to make a big step...but it's progress, celebrate progress. I know your wife has said mean angry monster things, things she will never take be able to take back. The only thing I can say to that is, I said mean angry monster things, out of anger, deep in my heart, I don't think I really meant them. I read in a book, or on the web most marital problems start because one member of the marriage is not happy within themself, it's not so much about their spouse. This rang so true for me, as I reflect on the months leading up to me leaving, it was all anger inside of me, and me not knowing how to deal with it, unfotunatley, my H, took the force of it.

So now I would like to ask you a question. If it is my H's pride that is making some of the difference as to him being iffy about this, what could I do?Any suggestions also to help him begin to trust in me? We do talk on a rare occasion, but haven't seen eachother in 2 months, not sure what to do about that. The last time I asked him to do something, he said he was too busy, that was 3 weeks ago.

Patience is not a must around these parts, it's a virtue. You can do this. You are doing this. Try, if she says/does something to take a deep breath.

((hugs))
Christa

[Jay Scott]

Christa, I am not sure if it is his pride or his guarding his heart. In my case it is a healthy dose of both. I feel she betrayed not only me but our family. The despair I feel when I think of the broken trust is indescribable. I often think that there is no way I would/could take her back because that trust and sense of security that I had with her is gone. How could I ever completely trust her after the hurt that she has caused all of us out of such a selfish act. Don't get me wrong, I want to want her back. I want my old life and my old wife back...but that is not possible.

To answer your question... if there is one thing that I think could possibly move me to the point of trust and love would be to see a real a change in her. I have always been the affectionate one and I have always desired her to be more affectionate. If I would see a change like that then in my mind it could really show me a change of heart and would go a long way to healing in my mind. I don't know if there is something that your husband has desired in your relationship, but that is what could help move my heart closer towards trust and a return of love for my wife.

Hope that makes sense and I hope it helps.

[christarn]

Thanks JS....I am truly working on change. I am no longer a "mean angry monster". Now I would just like to spend some time with him so he can start to see the changes.

I never told my H ILYBNILWY...I just stopped talking to him and while he was on vacation moved out. Then found out he started talking to his ex girlfriend...via the phone bill...when that happend...I served him papers. Long story short...we both made mistakes, but I was the one who walked away, we still are not D'd, but I still am hopefull, I am being patient, and still believe in him.

I'm off to work...yuck!! Take care,
Christa

PS, your post made since!! Thanks

[sandi2]

Dear JS,

I was almost a WAW, so I can identify with what you are talking about. What you said about you didn't know if you could ever take back your W b/c of the trust that had been broken, etc. If she had had a mental disorder, a nervous break-down, or something of that nature that caused her to act and talk like somebody you never knew.....would you feel the same way about taking her back? I know, your first thoughts are, "But that is different! They are sick when they are life that!" Yes, and I think a person in MLC is sick too. A lot of people won't agree with me about that, but there is something that happens to them that takes them over and they aren't the same person...don't think the same, talk or act the same.

For a person in real MLC, it is like something has snatched the real person and replaced it with some alien that can be incredibly curel and selfish. During this period of time, they usually make the worst decisions of their lives and hurt the ones that they once would have died for in a heart beat.

For an example, your W saying she resented having the kids. What she is resenting is the fact she cannot be that single carefree person that can date and play and not have to answer to anyone or any responsibilities. She wants to go back in time and get that....but it isn't possible and in doing so, she will cause a lot of hurt. Most people in MLC finds OP they think will be their knight or their princess to meet their unfulled desires and needs. They are looking at the "grass is greener" land and it looks so much better than reality. Maybe they harbor a lot of resentment b/c they did not get to fulfill a dream career that they truly wanted, or go to school, or whatever. Maybe it is the fact they are getting older and see life passing them by and they can't handle it. Perhaps they have been unhappy in the M for years and are full of resentment b/c nothing changes for the better. Maybe it is a constant string of things gone bad that has caused too much stress.
This is my personal view, but I think that they reach a point that something triggers all of this MLC stuff, and first thing you know, you are living with a stranger.

The LBS has to decide if their S is valuable enough to wait it out, fight it out, or DR it out. Remember how you felt about her on your wedding day? You were ready to sign up for whatever the future held.....right? Remember those vows, "For better or for worse".....well, here comes the "worst". Can you handle it? Is she worth it?

The people here on this board will help you all they can. You need to continue to post often and tell us as much as you can about what is going on. Read other people's stories and the advice they received. You will find it amazing how much these begin to sound alike.

First of all, you have to decide if you are in for the long haul or if you want out. If you decide to hang in there....you are going to hear two words more than anything else....time and patience.....b/c that is the key.

Let us hear what you decide. Take care of you and the girls.

Sandi

[Jay Scott]

Sandi, I do understand where you are coming from. I totally think it is like a nervous breakdown but you cannot make someone else see that they have a problem and get help.

As far as remembering my vows...yeah I do. I did not have the EA, did not walk away from my wife and kids and I am on this site seeking help. I am the one raising two small kids alone with a full time job. I sure do remember my vows. But sometimes I think you folks expect people to lay down and just let the other spouse go "play" and do their thing and just sit and wait them out.


Am I in it for that kinda long haul.... I don't think so.

peace

[DanceQueen]

Jay,

I'm totally new here. I have not read through all of the material and articles yet. But I have read one of Michelle's books, and I have a lot of experience and knowledge with relationships, divorce, etc (mostly by reading, but also because I am studying deliberately). I am currently reading as much as I can on this website to catch up and find out what you are all learning. So far, its awesome.

I wanted to post parts of my story, in case it helps anyone. Also, it helps me to share it, because I am learning and growing and changing all the time.

I met my ex-h when I was 19 years old, he was 27. He had a 2 year old daughter and was divorced when we met. I became pregnant within months, and we got married and had our son when I was 20.

I came from a broken home which had much love, but also had much dysfunction, especially with regard to marriage and divorce. I also have some abuse issues, and this was especially true when I was young and met my husband.

He provided a safe place for me to land at that time in my life, or so I thought.

I soon found out that there were many things about him which I didn't necessarily want in a partner, but we were married by then. We struggled in lots of ways for many years. Ultimately, we were married for 17 years. We ended up in one of the weirdest places anyone could imagine and finally, I just walked away. We are now divorcecd.

How we got into that weird place was BOTH of our faults. But I am the one who walked away, even though he really should have walked away and I don't know why he didn't do so years before.

I did some horrible things to him and to our relationship. And he did, too.

After I left him I met a wonderful man. That was over 4 years ago now and we are engaged.

Now...for the learning and growing part...

Things I did not do which I should have done (I only know this in retrospect and after years of soul searching):

1. I should have insisted on counseling after the first 3 years of marriage, when we were at a crossroads.

2. I should have invested more time into our relationship, instead of just becoming more and more independant.

3. I should have been more in tune with my ex-h's fears and so forth. He proclaimed for years that I would one day up and leave him. This became a self-fulfilling prophechy and I should have paid more attention to him and really dug into the "why" behind his saying this.

4. I should have read books and learned more about intimacy in general. I think now that I was just so young when I met him, that I could not be truly committed nor truly intimate at all. I had so much growing up to do and I should have done that somehow, one way or another, in a healthy way. With maturity, I now see all of this and have figured out how to be fully committed.

5. I should not have placed my children ahead of my husband in my heart. I now know that I used the kids as an intimacy buffer between us. At the time I thought it was only natural to put your children ahead of each other and ahead of yourselves. I now know this is not the correct way to have a happy marriage.

6. I should have had more individual counseling. I did have a little bit, to deal with my abuse issues, but not nearly enough, as I now realize and understand. There were such deep psychological scars on me that I had grown used to the pain and didn't realize I could live without it if I had the proper help.

7. I should have set my boundaries with my husband earlier, firmer, and more lovingly. Instead, I turned my back on the things that happened I didn't like and I did whatever I had to do to clean up the messes. I should not have enabled him like this (this has mostly to do with laziness and lack of ambition, not addictions or anything of that nature).

Now... I have a similar long list of the things my ex-h should have done differently, but I don't really want to start out with that. I just wanted to start laying my cards out on the table so as hopefully to help us all...help you and others to understand the WAW's mind, and help me to continue figuring out what I did wrong in my past so I don't repeat it.

I know that it may sound like I am saying "oh, I walked away from my husband and then walked straight into the arms of another man". I am fully aware of how it reads on paper, but please allow me to come back to that topic later and for now, I hope I am welcomed here and that I won't be run off as if I am a horrible person. I really have things to share that I believe will be helpful.

Thanks, and I'll write more soon,

Dance Queen