Quoting ANS: I don't intend to back off any further, but I think you're right that I cannot bulldoze my way back into her confidence.
You're right, you may have done all the backing off you could, and I'm sorry for having said it actually, like you were some sort of rookie or something (that, would be ME ). And your comment made me think about the fact that I am doing very little backing off myself! Oh! I'm no longer pursuing, no longer making those many phone calls every day just to hear her voice and put some sort of pressure on her...she has taken up that role , but as far as shyoing away from her when sahe seems troubled or down or deep in thought...no any more, I am just NOT taking for granted that it may have something to do with me. And that has been one of the best things I have done up to date! She no longer sees me as someone who hears, but doesn't listen, as someone who wants to fix HER, but as a sympethatic ear, someone who understands and does listen (huge 180 for me there).
So I would perhaps say: dont back off, but dont take for granted that the problem is you! It may or may not have anything to do with you. Just dont get back into the game, the chasse, the old: "what's wrong? Nothing I'm just tired!" routine and then both of you feel completely isolated and unable to communicate. And the circle dance continues!
Just babbling, but you have gotten this far, not time to resort to old habits! I certainly look to you for insperation, and I am simply trying to mirror, reflect what you have told me in the past!
I never make the distinction between "rookie" and veteran. You shouldn't consider yourself a rookie either. You've come a long way in a relatively short time, my friend. That kind of progress isn't measured in weeks, months or years.
And don't ever be sorry for giving advice. I take advice. I leave advice. I never ignore advice. You never know when and where you get a lightbulb moment.
As to assuming the problem is me, you're right. However since the only thing I can change is me, that's where I have to focus my attention.
Admittedly, focussing on me can tear me apart sometimes, but the improvements in my R over the last (count 'em) two years is the result of trying to see myself from my W's perspective and then behaving in a manner that changes that perspective.
Thanks for your opinions, Steph. They're appreciated.
Yesterday, W asked me to go riding with her. I have to post that, because I've been giving the impression that she never asks me to do things with her. She does. Perhaps it's just the boxer picking at his wounds that stops me from appreciating it.
Lily got me to thinking about how much things have changed in the past year.
A year ago, W would take off with MF without even looking over her shoulder at me. Since then, they've both made an effort to include me. Now, because of his W's stance, I'm pretty much out of the loop again, but this time, at least I'm not the villain.
Was I ever the villain? It doesn’t matter, Steph. What matters, is that at one point, she thought I was. To make matters worse, she thought I was casting her in the role of villain.
That kind of projection tends to become reality. The only way out is to stop believing it, and behave in such a way that your spouse will stop believing it too.
We’re on the same team now, and I intend to do whatever it takes to keep it that way.
Sometimes, that means stuffing my feelings. I vent her on the BB. That’s a tool I can use to avoid venting to her. You see, there are reasons that W doesn’t always treat me the way I’d like. I can’t start demanding it. That only promotes a we/they attitude. I want to be we/we.
As I mentioned, our morning coffee routine has fizzled. I miss it. Should I complain?
Well. This morning, W apologized for not participating. She’s just too tired. I told her that I understand. I really do understand, too. I miss it, and the tendency is to feel rejected. From my perspective, she doesn’t seem to make much of an effort. But I have to remind myself that she has to take care of herself first and foremost. I guess I just want her to acknowledge that something’s missing. If I had complained, it would have forced her into it. This way, it was genuine.
On the affection front, I don’t completely understand why it’s so difficult – despite her fatigue – to show a little affection. But since it is, I just have to stuff that too.
She lets me hug and cuddle a little. I dream of the day when it will come from her.
Things are better for us. Things have the potential to get even better. I can’t start whining my way into her arms. It don’t work that way.
Andy-my relationship with Adrian is such that I too have to do alot of stuffing. Especially about effection. It hurts. He too will let me cuddle and will take my hand in the car. He will say ILY. That's a big thing, but Imiss all the little things. I posted several times today already that I miss the little rub onthe back that says I'm glad to be with you right now, or him protectively putting his arm around me, or being playful with me. If I am playful with him first he will participate, but kindof half heartedly. SO many things that people take for granted that their S do, I miss. Adrian is somewhere inbetween withdrawal and ecceptance in MLC. I guess this is part of it. Like you, I cannot say anything without makinghim out to be the villan-or at least that would be his perception if I whined or asked for this or that. I too wait for him to start doing more-looking all the time for those baby steps. We ahve come along way and I know it will get better-at least I hope it will. SOmetimes you just get tired of waiting for it to, but what choice do we have? Not good ones. I asked you if you feel alone in a house full of people becasue that is how I feel a great deal of the time. I'mm not sure what is to be done that we are not already doing which for me is trying to be as safe for him as possible showing h im constantly that heis loved unconditionally without asking him for anything. DO you think they'll "get it" one of these days? I sure hope so. Rachael
There's nothing else we can do except to believe that what we're doing is working.
Do I think they'll get it? Sometimes I believe, sometimes I don't.
I need people like you to help me believe.
Remember this?
Quoting rmccord: Because Andy I don't beleive her feelings are dead-just sleeping perhaps. I too felt my feeliongs for my H were dead in the water 11 yrs ago. Of ourse there was an affair involved which complicated things but even without it I was at a place with him where I did not know if I felt ANYTHING towards him except that he was my H and the Father of my children. No warm, fuzzies anywhere. Point is they came back! The feelings. I don't know how or why they just slowly did and I love him more today than ever before…
Your wife is exhausted-maybe she does not have the energy to fight for her R with you right now. It may not be the right time for her. The only sure thing is change though-it will not be like this forever, I promise. Rachael
Do you believe this? If you do, it applies to you too.
I do beleive it Andy because I lived it. Sometimes its hardest to follow our own advise or even recognize that what we post to others applies to us as well. Thanks for helping me to remember. It will get better Andy. I still promise. Rachael
G'morning, Andy -- just wanted to pop in and say hello, see how you're doing, give you a big thank-you hug: ((((((andy)))))).
Life is a mess o' strange stories, isn't it -- and none stranger than those we see out here. We know each other and we don't, yet we care about each other and offer strength and encouragement and courage in abundance. In all of this, however, the one thing we cannot offer is the one and only one answer, the solution, the key piece of the puzzle that will make it all right again. If I could, I would. All I can tell you is that I truly believe Rachael is right -- they do come back, the warm fuzzies, just never when we want them to and never fast enough.
So, let's hop on the bike and go for a ride. We'll enjoy it. When we get back, life will be crystal clear again.
wilma
I learn by going where I have to go.
~Theodore Roethke
). And your comment made me think about the fact that I am doing very little backing off myself! Oh! I'm no longer pursuing, no longer making those many phone calls every day just to hear her voice and put some sort of pressure on her...she has taken up that role 
, but as far as shyoing away from her when sahe seems troubled or down or deep in thought...no any more, I am just NOT taking for granted that it may have something to do with me. And that has been one of the best things I have done up to date! She no longer sees me as someone who hears, but doesn't listen, as someone who wants to fix HER, but as a sympethatic ear, someone who understands and does listen (huge 180 for me there). 
wilma