Heard a segment of "Sound Money" on the radio where the speaker talked about lovingly setting up financial agreements for "what if". I think this could give me a great deal of peace of mind. I hope the worst never happens again but if it did, it would be wonderful to have had the details worked out while we were in less stressed states of mind. Anyone interested in why I'm thinking this way could see living with workaholic[/URL]. I'm thinking of talking to my H about this after he gets through this latest crunch and catches his breath. Any general thoughts? Anyone who has done or is considering this?
Does your silence indicate disapproval? it's just different from where you are in your own journeys? you are thinking about it? It's not mainstream DB but Michele talks about limits too.
I know when I went to see a lawyer when I was seperated he recommended a post nuptial agreement.I would think this can get very touchy if you are back together but it could be discussed if handled properly.Good luck
We wrote our vows the first time and to me there was a very strong implication of "as long as we both live", although it was not overtly said. My H thought we had said "as long as we both love" a total fabrication and very surprising to hear him say.
I have made a commitment to love him as long as we both shall live and if that means he wants out at some point, I will do everything I can to be loving and keep him, but I'm not going to stand in his way. I would want to lovingly allow a divorce if he decided that is what he really wanted and I would leave if he wanted to be with another woman because it would be giving too much of my self away to try to live with him through that.
I guess I haven't gotten over the humiliation of the affair and feeling like I was so stupid. The thought of ever spending another moment in the dark like that again is so terrible that I want a deterent. If we split up without him lying to me 50-50 is fine. I would just HATE not knowing about an affair again.
Me not knowing probably saved our relationship. It gave him the chance to play the whole thing out and give her up before I ever knew. I would have left him until he figured it all out. If it happened again I would leave until he figured it out and DB from afar. I know that's not what many people here have done and more power to them.
I got so upset because my H got so far out of touch with me during this last job crunch that I knew he had all the cover he needed to have another affair. He had been working at home before during these crunch times. In the early days after I discovered the affair we were in constant communication. I don't need that I just need that everything is OK feeling that comes from some amount of communication. Now, I'm back on meds because during the crunch time I didn't want to ask for more communication because I was sure he would refuse me and I didn't want to be a pest. (I'd only been off the meds about 2 months). Yes, it would be good to get to the point where I stay in balance whatever he does. I think I could even handle another affair without completely loosing my marbles if there was a plan. I am affraid that I wouldn't protect myself very well without such a plan.
I am starting to feel better perhaps this idea will fade as I feel better--don't know.
So am I pathologically dependent because I need some amount of attention from my H?
It is true that I have not been 100% for about 8 years now. The really tough times started with my H withdrawing combined with not being able to find a good niche for myself in the community where we lived at the time. We had moved from my home town (where I met him) to a cold place far away. I worked as a psychotherapist (it embarrasses me to say that now because I feel like I am not doing well enough myself to do that job again well—a problem I need to get over whether or not I return to the field).
I worked in a mental health center with a psychiatrist who had a long history of choosing his girlfriends from among his patients. Hopefully none of you are in this community. He trained psychiatrists. I was horrified when I learned this and said so to several people only to find myself the target of some amazing emotionally abusive behavior. This guy had the support of the professional community. He then proceeded to prescribe meds to the boss of the MHC, had an affair with her and finally got into some trouble about his previous behavior. He then married the boss and years later lost the medical school job but not his license. I think the only reason he finally got fired was because the head of the medical school died and someone from outside the community was hired and new people were brought in. Now, I may be depressed and it might interfere with how I like to do my work but this guy is still practicing!!! It was like being in a bad Catholic parish. I'd had a very similar experience in my younger years because I was in a cult. This was an amazing eye opener for me because here I was in mainstream America, in a "professional" setting, and it was every bit as crazy as the cult I had been in 25 years earlier. I had no idea that could happen. You expect a cult would be crazy but you would hope that the mental health community (or a Catholic church) in a "fine upstanding town" would not tolerate such blatant infractions of there own codes of ethics.
My H distancing started at exactly the same time that I first started realizing I was dealing with some “unusual” and difficult personalities at work and I started gaining some weight (at that point 10 lbs over what I weighed when we married). It was about 2 years after we married and before I knew anything about the psychiatrist sleeping with his patients. I got a therapist in another town through the recommendation of a well respected therapist (that I was pretty sure was trustworthy!) and had seen during my training. I saw the new therapist several times but it was a 3 hour drive each way so difficult to keep up. To make this part of this long story shorter, after about another year, I quit this job in a depression not nearly as bad as the one I was in when I left the cult but pretty bad. This was the second episode of major depression in my life. I had left my support system of family and life-long friends and wanted to go back to them and continue my career but I knew my H felt he couldn’t leave his job and my daughter was in college nearby and needed help with my granddaughter. It might have been possible to move my daughter to a new school but my H wasn't going anywhere. We said we would stay till he got some work done and could feel more confident about making a move. The years went by.
My H did not know how to be there for someone you love during a difficult time. I’m sure he was utterly overwhelmed, I understand how he wasn’t ready for something this difficult, I am so sorry that all this came together how it did, I know how badly his abusive father still haunts him. So rather than learn with me, he chose to be there for another woman who was unhappy with her marriage. He withdrew from me steadily over that year too and consummated his affair the same week I stopped that job. I stepped up my volunteer work, had a small private practice, taught college intro classes for two years, had a wonderful time frequently babysitting my granddaughter, and recovered largely from my depression but never found a professional home in that community. My H came home most nights at 6 and treated me well. We had dear friends that we socialized with most weekends. He had never wanted children so my granddaughter was like his only child. He complained about how much work he had to do and worked late sometimes. But for the next 4 years he was screwing his coworker in their offices, leaving work for up to 3 hours a time or two a week (walking past the bosses window every time), and near the end coming back intoxicated. All of the affair took place during work hours. My H said he knew he didn't love her by the middle of the affair. At that time she was moved to another building but because he couldn't end it they rented a room in this small town blocks away from her work and her home. They never did anything to hide their cars. It was like they were begging to get caught. My H is convinced that nobody ever knew. He hadn’t gotten any outside funding in the 7 years he worked there. He was fired, a little at a time and then fully. I started looking for a new job for him, took him out for walks and encouraged him when he could barely put one foot in front of the other. He didn’t need medication. He had me. I know how to be there for people when all is lost. I got my first experience at 4yo with my mother when my sister died. All the crap that has happened in my life in the end has served me very well. If my H comes home today and says yes, I’m having another affair, or I’m tired of your depression I’m outta here, I will figure out how to make that serve me well, too. I will accept any bad thing anyone wants to call me and eventually figure out how to move forward. Perhaps this is the worst piece of self-pitying, dwelling on the past, sniveling, anybody ever wrote. OK, I will do better.
ANYWAY We were both messed up people. He was doing the best he could. So was I. He made a bad choice. I completely caved in. I forgive him. I forgive me. We are still trying to work our way through our short-comings, trying to get this marriage on good enough footing so that we can both thrive. We started out not too bad. It was very painful but with him making some effort I started doing pretty well. Then we had several episodes that were really tough. My third episode of, no doubt about it, major depression was 1 ½ years after finding out about the affair. It’s not the affair it’s the problems that still persist. I think these boil down to him feeling like I am trying to control him when all I really want is to have a sense that my feelings matter. I left this web page up on the computer last night by accident. He never said a word but when I asked him if he saw it he said, he read it, not carefully then forgot about it. He left for work again after coming home at 10 pm last night and this is after the crunch. When he comes home we are going to discuss buying a house. I am going to head out myself but I will probably beat him home. The house is a mess--I used to be an immaculate housekeeper. Yes, as he would criticize, I am spending too much time writing this stuff.
My H says he is committed to our marriage. He doesn’t act the part consistently. He is under huge stress. He is starting to get recognition at work like he has never had before. They gave him a teacher of the year plaque. Of course I am very proud of him. I want him to have all the accolades he can handle. I just don’t want him to sacrifice our marriage to do so. His attitude toward me feels very disparaging again, I don’t even know if he is aware of it. I am determined not to join him in putting me down as a human being again. If he has specific complaints, I will listen. I will do my best to make corrections but I’m not going to think I’m a fatally flawed specimen!!!
When there is time for talking, maybe my best strategy is to stick to the house, talk about facts, keep it brief, see what he does. I also told him outright that I need some authentic attention from him and that maybe we could figure that one out sometime. If we talk about anything of substance I will try to keep it brief. If he wants to talk, great, I will try to mostly listen. Keeping my mouth shut is very difficult for me…you’d never guess right?
In this new town I have spent a lot of time reading, writing, and in therapy. I have also looked into new career training and taken a class. I worked briefly at two jobs (my H says it is fine with him for me not to make money but I'd like to find something very flexible). I continue to volunteer at one of those jobs as their funding was cut to the bone. I do lots of community activist work and have made a friend or two and am back to exercising 3 times a week. I visit my daughter (who was recently diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis but is doing well) and my granddaughter frequently and travel with my H on business trips.
My H saw how depressed I was the other night which seems to have inspired, surprise, surprise, more distancing. He did say he would go with me to see my psychiatrist. She is strongly steeped family systems theory, not SBT oriented and takes, I'm surmising, a neutral stance toward keeping marriages together. She has been helpful to me.
So there is my novella. If any body gets through all this and has some ideas I'll be more grateful than I could ever say. You all have already been a big help.
Sorry folks, that was quite a spew. Never aired that stuff "in public" before, hope I never feel the need to again or that at least I find some other way to deal with it. In the movie, A Beautiful Mind, the character John Nash explains his hallucinations with "they are my past", and something like "everybody lives with a painful past". He learned to stop paying attention to them. That is exactly what I need to do also.
So, I am turning over a new leaf. There is no solution back there.
I am too dependent on my H but we are OK. He is not rejecting me for my dependence even though I could understand if he did. He is being pretty understanding. Do I need to change my dependent ways? Absolutely. I don't want to live this way whether he can handle it or not. I will get plenty of practice at not freaking out during job crunches.
He said he would be OK with a mid-nup if I thought it would be helpful. That idea is still not completely out of my head but new and more productive ideas, like the next steps to getting on with a more fulfilling life, are also taking hold. I will be taking some major action steps with those ideas tomorrow.
Sorry I was a party pooper. I will avoid that in the future.
