Hi, Guys. I haven't posted in a couple of days. I'm just really confused and I know I must sound like an idiot going round and round with the same old stuff. I wish I could get off the merry-go-round. I think I'm going nuts sometimes.
Thanks, Utreya for your comments. I think I'm afraid of really letting go with those images in my head. They can get pretty ugly, and I'm afraid of what will happen if I swell too much on those images.
I haven't been obsessing much for the entire week . I did have a couple of rough spots around an occasion that I knew about from last year. H and I talked a little about it. He apologized again, told me again how he wished he was in my shoes, etc. Funny how the apologies sound so empty now. I'm not in a good place.
I've found myself thinking a lot about going off to be by myself for awhile. Sometimes I think I just need time to be alone and think about what I really want now. Sometimes I wonder if I really do love H after all. That scares me. That hurts me to even think it. And, yet, all I have to do is remember what he's done and I just can't imagine it ever being right again, or even close to it. Right now I feel like something has died in me. I'm not sure if I can bring it back to life. Right now being with H is making me feel the way I felt about myself for many years after being molested. I thought I had put that all behind me, and now it's all coming back again.
At the C's today we talked more about my apparent need for revenge and to "hurt" my H, which is why I can't or won't forgive him. Had a pretty good revelation -- when I was molested as a child I never told anyone. It was my "dirty little secret." As a grown woman, I have had to deal with the fact that I let that person get away with what he did to me because I didn't stand up for myself -- I didn't tell anyone. Hell, maybe (probably) he molested other girls, and I did nothing to stop him. So C thinks H's A is very closely tied to the molestation. I've been "betrayed" by men I trusted. I've done nothing to protect myself or others. I'm letting H "get away" with what he's done by forgiving him. I need to make him pay, just like I should've made the molestor pay. Wow, pretty ugly stuff.
H wants to know what happened with C today. He's actually getting a little unnerved that he's not invited to these sessions. He called me from work asking me about it. I told him we'd talk tonight at home. I hope I handle this well. I don't really want him thinking he's no better than a child molester. One thing I am sure of is that I do care for my H. I just don't know if I can continue to be married to him. There is so much at stake. I'm so afraid of making the wrong decision.
Boy, what a bummer I am, Huh? Need to get this stuff out here. Not sure how much more H can handle. Funny how I still worry about that.
By the way, what I said about letting my H get away with stuff and not forgiving him is what I'm thinking in my demented brain -- not what C is telling me. We figured out that's why I can't just let it go, forgive him, and move forward. Am I making myself clear?
Yes, absolutely clear. I understand, as I'm sure many here do, how much MORE it hurts (if that's possible) when there is past betrayal. I was raped as a young woman (a virgin) and subsequently beaten. I didn't tell anyone because he was my boyfriend at the time. Another big issue I've never gotten over, and never will, is my first "love", the first man who ever loved me...we were together/engaged for about 6 years and lived together for almost 2 (which is a lot when you're only 18-19), anyway, it ended badly-he left me on my birthday without a note....I will never be able to fix things with him as I found out in Feb that he passed away in Sept of 2000. I was surprised at how hard that hit me....I always thought I'd see him again...be able to talk to him and tell him that now I understand why he left me. It was very painful for me, and it still is.
My point is that there are always mitigating circumstances, I'm in NO way trying to belittle what happened to you as a child, it is unconscionable what that man did to you-there is no death painful enough for him....I just want to say that yes, you are justified in your feelings. Justified-absolutely....but it will be up to you as to how you let that impact your marriage right now and in the future.
If I have learned one thing through all this my dear M, is that what is past is just that-past. This is not to say that it doesn't still hurt like hell and there are days when I get so angry and others when I cannot stop crying...but when I'm done I have to point my head to the future because THAT is THE ONLY thing I have influence over. The future is up to me. How my past affects me will most certainly determine how I head into that future, but I still have control nonetheless.
Am I rambling or making sense?
I am almost a year and a half post "Whole truth bomb" and there are still bad days. BUT, they are not near as many as they used to be.
You are headed in the right direction-keep the faith-and do not ever think that you are nuts or stupid for feeling what you feel. Your feelings are NEVER stupid-they just are. Your actions on the other hand are a different story, not that I think you're doing anything stupid, what I mean is that there is potential for actions to be stupid and believe me, I CAN attest to that from personal experience-LOL!!
OK, off my soapbox....
You take care-and remember that he loves you-and leave it at that (I too used to follow that one up with "yeah, but NOT enough to be faithful....") it's better without that last added phrase.
L
p.s. Now, if I were only able to take what I wrote above and live that way every day of my life.....it's so easy to say, isn't it....much harder to put into practice....I'll be thinking about you!
Matilda, I almost cried when I read your latest posts!! I sure hated to hear you are going through a bad spell!! It really hurt to hear you say you wonder sometimes if you really love your H!! Maybe you do need some time alone away somewhere to really think things over without any distractions. Did you talk to your C about that? If so what did C suggest? It is really hard for me to give you any advice even though our situations are somewhat similar. You have been through so much more than I have and it is understandable that you are having a harder time getting over the A. All I can tell you is that you have to be CERTAIN that you love your H and you have to feel in your heart that he loves you or things won't work. You have to do what is best for you. It takes 2 people fully committed to making the marriage work or it won't work. One person cannot keep a marriage together. I can sit here all day and tell you time makes everything better because it did for me but every person is different and sometimes it takes more time for some than it does for others. I just want you to think long and hard,look deep inside yourself before you make any decisions. Then when you have the answers to these questions "Do I really love my H?" "Do I want to stay with him and make this marriage work?" "Am I better off with him or without him in my life?" "Can I eventually totally forgive him for the A and move forward and stop looking back?" then you do what is the best thing for YOU! Remember that there a lot of people out here that care about you,want to see you happy and will always be here for you!! Stay strong and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers!! Pfroglady
i think your C is trying to help you with the injured child within youthat was hurt and couldn't protect herself and whose voice was never heard. that inner child that you brought into your marriage. the adult matilda is now in that child's shadow as that child lashes out at being hurt again and you, the adult matilda, are her voice. i'll share w you what our c counseled me. she said to nurture that hurt child, soothe her, help her heal, acknowledge her pain and anger,quiet her fears, let her know she is loved. let her out and let her PLAY. there was no mention of letting her act out or be vindictive cause that doesn't really heal. as the adult, you know your H isn't going to betray you again. he has apologised over and over. make that inner child of yours hear him; make the adult matilda reasure the inner child that she won't be hurt again. matilda, it's easy for a little child to forgive. you say you're sorry and that you won't do it again. then the hurt child SAYS i forgive you. it's only when the child is older that s/he learns to channel hurt into anger.
you the adult have got to separate the hurt from your youth out from the hurt from your H. you are making him pay for what someone else did to you.
quote:Originally posted by Pfroglady: Remember that there a lot of people out here that care about you, want to see you happy and will always be here for you!! Stay strong and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers!!
I've sat at my computer now for 20 minutes after reading your post. I don't really even know what to say. The things you've gone through in your life - incredible. Yes, you certainly do know of what I speak -- and probably a hell of a lot more. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I know how painful it is to bring up those memories again.
I know I have carried my painful past into my marriage, and it did take it's toll. I did work hard for years to make sense of it all and let it go. Now I feel like I'm starting all over again. I know intellectually that I need to leave the past in the past, but emotionally -- at least right now -- I just can't seem to do it. I want SO badly to move forward. Like C said, right now I'm in a "protection" mode. Got to protect myself from being hurt like this again, cuz I can't trust God or man to protect me.
And, Pfroglady, I think (I hope) I'm just in a bad place right now when I say I'm not sure I love H. Deep down I know I do, but I feel it's changed somehow. How can it not? He's a different man in my eyes.
Last night the kids were gone and we were working in the kitchen when H asked how it went at the C. We ended up sitting on the kitchen floor talking for almost 2 hours. I told him all the stuff I wrote about in my post above. Seems like the thing that got him the most was me saying I was thinking about going away for awhile. He kept calm, but from his body language and his questions, I think he was starting to panic. I told him they were just thoughts right now. After all, how could I go anywhere? The boys still need me (H agreed readily). I have way too many responsiblities to just up and leave, and I'm just not the kind of person to abandon those responsiblities.
Without any prodding from me, he really opened up about what he goes through daily. How he can't escape what he's done. Told me he cried all the way home from work the other day. He just doesn't know how to fix this. H is a real fixer -- and I mean he can fix ANYTHING. He's just one of those guys that "knows" how things work. He can't fix this. And what makes it 1000 x's worse is he caused it -- that just blows him away.
At different points in the evening we put ourselves in each other's place to try and understand what the other was feeling, and then explained those feelings to the other to see if we were getting it right. It was a very interesting experiment. For the first time I can really understand why H would rather be in my shoes -- how difficult it really is for him to face me every day. I think he really understands the depth of my pain, and the struggle I am going through to put it behind me.
What I also discovered was that H must really love me deeply! I wasn't sure of that for a long time -- understandably. But when I realize what it takes for him to come home every night and face his "humilation and shame" square in the face; to see the sadness and hurt on my face (not all the time. Most of the time I try to put on a smile. H doesn't believe those smiles, though!) knowing he's caused that pain; to continue to answer my questions, no matter how painful it is, I have to acknowledge that he does truely love and care for me. If he didn't he wouldn't put himself through that. If he didn't he would have taken the easy way out - he would have run from it, not faced it. Like I've said in previous posts, when I'm thinking rationally, I actually admire him for sticking it out. And I'm finally beginning to understand just how much I matter to him.
Another really interesting thing we talked about was on the subject of why he told me about the A. I asked H if he was sorry now that he had told me. "Yes." See, before he told me about the A, HE was feeling bad about what he had done. He felt like he was living a lie. He wanted to make sure he never did those things again and telling me would assure that somehow. He thought HE'D feel better if it was all out in the open. He thought I'd throw him out, things would be miserable for a couple months, but then we'd get back together and it would all be behind us! He never thought about how it would crush me. He admits that. I guess that was the problem all along. It's always about how he feels.
He's been truely stunned by my reaction (WTF?). I didn't throw him out. Didn't yell, scream, throw things (did yell once or twice - did sock him in the arm twice and slap him a good one once ) I think the depth of my hurt really knocked the socks off him. I think the fact that he lost my trust - which he once cherished so highly -- lost some respect, were all things that he really hadn't thought about, not only when he decided to tell me, but when he decided to have an A. As a result of all that -- HE FEELS EVEN WORSE NOW THAN HE DID BEFORE HE TOLD ME!
Well, there was a lot said that I can't really put into words, but it was a very enlightening evening. We ended the conversation when son came home. I really wasn't ready for it to be over, but after son went to bed I didn't bring it up again. Enough for one night. I think H was waiting for me to talk some more (dreading it). I know it surprised him that I let it drop.
We ended the conversation with a hug and a kiss. One of the last things I said to H before falling asleep was that I feel we're wasting time with every minute we're unhappy. Who knows how much time we have left on this earth. I don't want something to happen to either one of us while we're in this state. We need to fix this and get back to being happy and joyful. We fell asleep last night holding hands.
A lot of the mantra on this board is take things slowly, time is on your side. I certainly agree with that in one respect. But in another respect, like I said above, who knows how much time we really have. Do we want to waste it with ugliness and unhappiness? Is that the last thing you want to remember about your R if something were to happen to H, or visa versa?
Well, I think I just talked myself into a better PMA today.
Thanks again, Me2, for sharing your exerpiences with me. You've given me good advice about letting the past stay in the past. I'll just reverse it and give you the same advice . And, yes, we both know that's way easier said that done. Maybe we can be each others cheerleader.
Pfroglady, I always love hearing from you. Like I said, you're a great role model on forgiveness. My C said yesterday that forgiveness is the greatest act of love you can perform. I hope your H really, really understands how lucky he is. I hope someday to be able to follow your example. I am trying. I really am.
I'm crying now. Not bad tears. Little girl tears. You are a very insightful woman. You've touched me to the core. I can't thank you enough for the words your wrote. I am making him pay, and he doesn't deserve it. He is truely remorseful and has asked me to forgive him. The man who molested me was not remorseful and did not ask for my forgiveness. I cannot do this to H anymore, or me.
Like Pfroglady, you are a true inspiration to me. You love unconditionally and forgive unconditionally. Your H is another of the incredibly lucky ones. I think he's beginning to realize that, too. I've been keeping up with your thread even though I haven't posted a reply in a while. And I will continue to keep up with you and continue to pray for you and your H.
My PMA has been incredibly high yesterday and today. I think everytime H and I have one of the "good" OR talks I feel a little bit more of my resistence to forgiving him fading away. It's especially helpful when he trys to explain to me how this situation has so deeply and adversely affected him. Like I said above, I'm finally believing again that he loves me. Not just because he tells me, but also because of his actions. And it's taken me putting my own pain and anger aside long enough to really hear his pain and see his anguish. He could have run from all this. I've put him through a lot. But he's here, taking it because he has hope that I will forgive him and accept him and be happy with him.
A couple of posts ago I wrote that I was questioning whether I still loved H or not. Last night just before drifting off to sleep, at that point where consciousness is melting into subconsciousness and the sole, one's true self, is allowed to speak without inhibition, I heard, "Yes. I do love him." And I know it is true.
I've thought a lot about what I want to say to H sometime soon. He keeps saying nobody (except me now) knows the "real" him, what a horrible person he is. I want to tell him, as I've come to understand just recently, that the THINGS that he did were horrible, but that is not who HE is. Maybe some part of me believed that until recently. But watching him and listening to him the other night made me realize that the reason he is feeling so wretched is because participating in the A, along with the lies and the deceit that goes along with it, was so very much AGAINST who he really is. When one goes against one's true self, there will be hell to pay in the long run. Who he REALLY is, is a loving, kind, thoughtful man who loves his W and family so very much. And when he lives up to those things, he is happy and all is right with the world. He made some very bad mistakes and used very poor judgement. He did things that went against his true self, the REAL him, and he's paying dearly for it.
So, all that being said, had a little bump in the road of PMA today. H had to leave at the crack of dawn to drive down south for a meeting. Learned last night that a female associate was riding part way down with him. Must have had a look on my face, cuz H said, "No way. Ain't gonna happen. You'll meet &**# someday and know what I mean, but that doesn't even matter. The thought of doing anything like that again makes me sick." Okay, okay. I didn't say anything.
He called me on his drive down and spoke very lovingly to me (obviously not trying to hide anything from his associate). But when he called at noon to say they were still down there (3 hrs away) and were stopping for lunch I could hear my voice go just a tiny bit cold. "Oh, you're still down there, and you're having lunch together?" The cold fist of jealousy had grabbed onto my heart and was squeezing. Man, do I hate that. I haven't had a reason to be jealous in 20 years. I absolutely hate that feeling. And I resent having a reason to feel it. H either didn't notice or didn't want to say anything around other people. He called again from the road about an hour later (could hear her on her phone in the background), chatted a minute, and then ended with "ILY." I felt really silly to have let that incident put a crimp in my PMA. It's over now. PMA is flying high once again.
Matilda, I know what you mean about hating the jealous feeling and hating the reason you have it. That is one thing I still am dealing with. Ever since my H stopped communicating with the XOW he has given me absolutely no reason to doubt him or be jealous but I do every now and then feel it grab hold of me. Talk about feeling "stupid"...he plays golf and sometimes on Saturday afternoon or Sunday when the guys are done some of their wives show up and they have a "scramble". Well,sometimes a woman gets put on my H's team (she is always paired with her H) and there are some women out the club that I can't stand and when I hear that one of these women gets put on his team I just get this over whelming feeling of jealousy! It is dumb and I know it but it's just that I "freak out" sometimes !! I have talked to my H about this and he knows that it is irrational(and I know it is too) but he is always sweet about it and tells me that there is no way he would ever have anything to do with one of these women and I know it's true. Right now I am gearing up for his spring golf trip that is coming up the middle of May. Guess where it is? Actually this time it is going to be a little further away from where he met the XOW and he has sworn to me that he will have no reason to even drive into the town where she lives and he has promised me that even if some of the guys want to drive there and go to the club he won't go (he didn't last year and last year it had only been a month since he broke off his A). My heart tells me I can trust him and to believe him. But it makes my stomach turn to think about him being anywhere close to her without me being with him. I know that all he can do is try to reassure me and it is up to me to believe in him and trust him. It is going to be easier than last year but I have a feeling that it is still going to be tough just the same. I have ways I can check up on him but I really don't want to -I want to trust him and I want to listen to my heart. I'm going to make it - I know I am but I may need a little pep talk come the 14th of May !! I was sure glad to hear that you know that you truly love you H and that you are past that point. You are going to make it Matilda you are making a lot of progress. Don't worry about the occasional feeling of jealousy - I believe that is normal and understandable after what you have been through!! You are going to also have the occasional feeling of anger,hurt and that sick feeling when you think about the A. I still do on the rare occasion but believe me it gets weaker every time. JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND STAY STRONG!! You are doing GREAT!! pfroglady
![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
. I did have a couple of rough spots around an occasion that I knew about from last year. H and I talked a little about it. He apologized again, told me again how he wished he was in my shoes, etc. Funny how the apologies sound so empty now. I'm not in a good place.![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
) I think the depth of my hurt really knocked the socks off him. I think the fact that he lost my trust - which he once cherished so highly -- lost some respect, were all things that he really hadn't thought about, not only when he decided to tell me, but when he decided to have an A. As a result of all that -- HE FEELS EVEN WORSE NOW THAN HE DID BEFORE HE TOLD ME! ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
. And, yes, we both know that's way easier said that done. Maybe we can be each others cheerleader.![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
!! I have talked to my H about this and he knows that it is irrational(and I know it is too) but he is always sweet about it and tells me that there is no way he would ever have anything to do with one of these women and I know it's true. Right now I am gearing up for his spring golf trip that is coming up the middle of May. Guess where it is? Actually this time it is going to be a little further away from where he met the XOW and he has sworn to me that he will have no reason to even drive into the town where she lives and he has promised me that even if some of the guys want to drive there and go to the club he won't go (he didn't last year and last year it had only been a month since he broke off his A). My heart tells me I can trust him and to believe him. But it makes my stomach turn to think about him being anywhere close to her without me being with him. I know that all he can do is try to reassure me and it is up to me to believe in him and trust him. It is going to be easier than last year but I have a feeling that it is still going to be tough just the same. I have ways I can check up on him but I really don't want to -I want to trust him and I want to listen to my heart. I'm going to make it - I know I am but I may need a little pep talk come the 14th of May ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon}
!! I was sure glad to hear that you know that you truly love you H and that you are past that point. You are going to make it Matilda you are making a lot of progress. Don't worry about the occasional feeling of jealousy - I believe that is normal and understandable after what you have been through!! You are going to also have the occasional feeling of anger,hurt and that sick feeling when you think about the A. I still do on the rare occasion but believe me it gets weaker every time. JUST KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND STAY STRONG!! You are doing GREAT!! pfroglady