H says he wants to try a new start with me, and is now SURE he wants to end it with ow (though he still has feelings for her), but has to do this part HIS way. He’s in therapy now, and is being as painfully honest as he can be with me, though we haven’t really started working on “us” yet.
I don’t want to interfere with his ending it his way, but I admit I don’t know what that means. I think he means telling her in his way at his pace, some trying to protect her feelings. He knows this will hurt all of us more before it gets better. (I’m trying to remove myself from that as much as possible).
I’m having trouble not wanting this to go a certain way. (control??)
Part of me wishes he would be very honest with her and tell her everything – how much he loves me and wants to come back, so that there is no question in her mind (this would come as quite a shock to her at this point), and she would (hopefully) leave us alone. Also so that there would be no surprises later for me or for her, ie if we run into friends or family, etc… etc. (She lives 1200 miles away, but her family is here).
This actually goes deeper for me, he has been so disrespectful and rash through this, I do feel there’s no room for ambiguity here this time. (He went back and forth between us once before very publicly). I feel that part of the healing for us will have to include him making his love and intentions very clear to everyone – me firstly, but his family and our friends, her, etc… After everything that has happened, a skywriter would not be inappropriate – <<< kidding! >>> . So far no one is aware we’re even talking about reconciling at this point- we’re trying to go slow and do it right.
Is this a NEED for me, or a want? Is it realistic? Should I ask him to tell me what he’s going to do? Before or after he does it? Or should I accept that he wants to end it, and not care how he does it, or what he tells her, or anyone else? DBing seems to point at just ignoring it all, like I have done a lot through this. I have let go of a lot of anger, resentment, I'm trying to be fair etc. I’d really some perspective on this.
Hi Lee....LTNS....I am glad to read your posts...brings a smile to my face to see how far youve come. Here is my advice for where you are at right now with H. Some will disagree with me but it is what has worked in my R.
Remember awhile back i got you to send yourself flowers? This really affected your H. I think right now he needs to feel he could lose you. Time to turn up the heat and not be available to him, in a kind and loving manner. I dont mean ignore him or stop seeing him altogether...just make sure that every conversation and interaction you have with H you leave him with a feeling that he doesnt quite "have" you. This is the best possible way to get them to open their eyes and see what they could lose. If you want to know some of the methods to get him to belive this them email me anytime or ask here. And also STOP discussiing any OR with him. PERIOD!!!! Keep detached for awhile. My H has been home for almost 3 weeks Lee, and I am still detached. Do it lovingly, but firmly steer him from all OR talk. This only serves to bog them down in all of their confusion. Wake this man up now, show him he could lose you....go away for the weekend...do something different. Time to turn up the heat
Hey Lee glad to hear you're on the turn around. I'm in about the same boat right now too. I agreed I'd take H back too quickly though, should have told him I had to think about it, but that's hard to do in the moment.
So now I'm backing way off again and letting him waffle back and forth and figure himself out.
Zelda, I too would be interesed in knowing some of those techniques, I don't think H even considers he might lose me-he has always talked like in a few years we could get back together or we could be best frieds our whole lives (having his cake and eating it too). That's not reality.
I know you want things to go at your pace. But they can't. You have positive signs as H is going to therapy and does want to cut it off from OW. These are excellent signs. It bugs you that he still sees her. That's understandable. But look at it this way. He already has both an emotional and sexual relationship with her. The cat is out of that bag. At this point sex with OW is superfluous yet at the same time innocuous.
With regards to telling the "world," if and when He comes back, it will be apparent to all. No need to alert the media.
Another point brought up by Z is detaching. From what I hear, this will be automatic. You will have to feel each other out in order to get your bearings. This is not a process to be hurried.
Best wishes and do this thing right. Show all these DBers what patience is all about. Because an impatient DBer is an unsuccessful DBer.
I also like what Zelda said about not being so available....not that you want to start playing some childish game of cat and mouse, but he has to know that you are not such a 'sure thing'. It sure gets their attention when they feel that there might be a little competition.
I also think that your H needs to prove to YOU, not the world because like IMP said it will be obvious, but he needs to prove to you that he is committed to your marriage and is giving up OW-for good...period. Shoudl you get wrapped around the axle about the details of HOW he does this? Only so far as to ensure that he's really ending it-and not just putting it on the back burner.
After all, YOU are the only one he should really be concerned about-sure, OW's feelings will be hurt-and I am sure she cared for him and vice versa (much as THAT sucks)...but I say 'too bad' especially if she knew what she was getting into (i.e., knew he was married)-she has no one to blame but herself-and him.
Maybe going a bit dim and giving him something 'to think about' (Zelda's suggestion-I'd love to hear some ideas!) would be good for now. That would make it easier to hold onto the patience you need to let him come to you.
I'm happy for you tho-you've been thru a lot....be thinking about you!
Lee, His words were to let you know that he is entertaining thoughts of reconcilliation. He also wants you to stay out of his final dealings with OW.
This is all good and fine and I would take a wait and see attitude with him. Like Z said, don't show excitement at the prospect of reconcilliation at this point. Make him think he has alot of work to do. Hell, make him jump through a few hoops. Zelda's idea of making him think you may have closed the door some is a good one.
Z, update your thread or start a new one here. I'd luv to hear how you and H are doing. Has the little boy grown up at all.
Kent
[This message has been edited by KentS (edited 05-17-2001).]
Wow, thanks for responding so fast everyone! I really appreciate the wise words and encouragement.
Zelda, suggest away!!!! The flowers were really good as a shocker and he admits they really started him thinking consciously. I have to admit, though, I feel bad about the deception and would prefer not to lie...or play like cat and mouse, really. So do you have any ideas that would work with that? We all want to hear them!
I should explain a couple of things about where we are at, he is already feeling very urgent about fixing this mess, 'cause he is outright miserable. It's possible that I might be the soother now, I see that. He does see that I'm having a good time and that there's a lot of good stuff he's missing out on with me. When we're around each other in person, we're all over each other, and he says he that is not rivalled by ow at all- ironically enough. (He admitted to me a loooong time ago he isn't attracted to her - Affair started by email).
I see that most everyone agrees that I should stay out of the "ending it with ow" biz and keep detached because he's not there yet, be a little more unavailable. I Have to be really careful because he gets quite discouraged when he thinks I'm avoiding talking about something, because we used to shove things under the rug... I admit that I probably say too much when we do talk (he still initiates most OR), I'll have to think on that one.
So i'm inspired now- here are some things I will try:
- Be less available, especially when I know he's usually looking for me (I think he'll notice even a little).
- I might suggest more public places to meet up, so that he can't necessarily "have" me... (literally ) we can only flirt.
- when I do talk to him, I'll detach by talking about less intimate stuff (no OR) and fun stuff I'm doing - he'll see more of what he's "missing" while he's mucking around in the his jungle of confusion
Any other thoughts?? Keep em coming! Thanks so much, this is really helpful.
I agree with Zelda. Make him unsure whether he can "get" you. My H finally woke up and was frantic that he might lose me (never mind he threw me away 16 months before, LOL). He hightailed it to EA and ended it totally (I did not even suggest this--it was his OWN idea--in fact I actually told him I did not mind at all if he was friends with her, it did not bother me anymore, I had finally got over that and got on with my life--thus intimating that I had "friends" of my own--this drove him crazy and he said, NO, I do not want you EVER to be concerned abt me and EA, so it is best if she and I have no contact.)
H knows there are things he needs to do before I will consider letting him come back, and he is doing them. I have not specifically told him what the "things" are, but he is guessing and doing them (pretty good for a classic passive-aggressive, huh). When we get closer to time when I will tell him he can come back (probably July 1), I may tell him the specific things I have in mind, but by that time he will probably have fixed all of them anyway. I find it is much better if they do all the fixing themselves without you trying to "control" them. If your H is in the right place he will know what he needs to do, and will do it.
In fact, it is my belief that they must be willing to do "anything" to get you back. This way they will try VERY hard and there is much more chance of it lasting. Plus their attitude has to be that they were really selfish and self-centered (my H told me he was a jackass, stupid, and self-centered and was SO SORRY.) Also, for it to last, there must be a period of time elapse for them to be pursuing you like crazy and they are still not sure they have you. It has been around 7 wks for my H since he did an about face and told me he wanted to reconcile (we have been separated almost 18 months). I am actually enjoying his pursuit very much. He is doing better this time than when we were courting 21 yrs ago! Love those roses and mushy cards and the phone calls each day telling me he loves me (he didn't tell me that for around the last 7 yrs he was here!!).
OK, must run, but Lee, do not be a pushover. Make him really wonder.
Carol, I read your post 3 times over and took stock of H's attitude. I think he does have the right one. He's been working really hard lately. It just isn't always in fornt of me, and in the way I want to see it. That's my attitude to adjust, too! lol
Yesterday, H said I deserve for him to come to me completely free of ow and ready to work on our marriage, and he's taking care of that. HE's gone to see ow to tell her the whole story this weekend. Isn't trying to protect her anymore. He said he is WELL aware that he is on thin ice with me, and that he's worried he's going to lose me!
Been thinking a lot about what H has been saying "nothing's off the table" . We have talked some about this in our R and if we try this "New start", the fact that as a young working couple trying to "do it all", we really just used to let our lifestyle carry us away... We did not CREATE what we wanted as a life, we became a slave to it.
Now's the chance, whether with him or not (and I really hope WITH) to consciously choose what kind of life to have and make it happen.
We've been bogged by debt, fast life, working every waking hour, a house filled with STUFF that all just complicates things and kept us from relating to each other also. We're talking about a simpler life. Sell our house which is "downtown" and expensive to heat for a smaller place out by the ocean. My dream. Hope we do it.
Oh, I'm simplifying it all- products, food, STUFF you name it- I just don't need it to "dose" me into contentment anymore- need real connection with me, H and others instead...
I know thins is kind of a flaky rant , but I think it's important for me to live so much more consciously than before, with much less baggage!
I have been posting on the Newcomers forum on these threads:
) we can only flirt.