I just finished posting to ALTL's thread, and like I said I backslided this morning, pretty bad....already had one short phone conversation with H about it, sent him a much revised email (toned it WAY down after I tried to gain perspective), anyway, I logged into the IM account that I caught H talking to OW (and me) on and there was a message from the administrator of an IM account he never told me about, it was one he set up for OW and the screen name was 'special' to them (although he denies this and says he got the name by just clicking open Webster's going to the "N's" and there it was...which is a crock-because the word isn't even IN Websters).
Snooping, yes, AND I know I should not..but I have feelt a distance growing between us over the past few weeks, and I cannot shake the feeling that he still isn't being completely honest with me-like you said ALTL-he's so good at deceiving me...and I am so transparent-it IS personally uncomfortable for me to hide my emotions. I don't believe in 'playing games', never have, but here in the past few months...I'm trying to learn to be a master player and it feels very un-natural.
Anyway-I think I uncovered yet ANOTHER account he set up to talk to OW, even though the message from the administrator came back saying 'It's been over 6 months since you logged into your account-do you still want this account?' I tried to log in but could not figure out the password, I asked that it be mailed to me-didn't come to the account I have access to...so I have no other options-it's a dead-end situation unless he comes clean, I will never get into the IM account-he's even denied he set it up...same old lies.
I do believe he has not been in it for over 6 months, and OW confirmed that she had not heard from him in since a year ago Jan (she did this in Nov)...why is this so hard to let go of? It's like he's given me the truth is such bits and pieces, I'm still waiting for the 'rest of the story'. We have discussed this, together and with the C...I still can't shake the feeling there is more I don't know. I am obsessing BIG TIME. I am educated (moderately!) and recognize my behavior (the snooping)...but feel helpless to stop it. I do not trust him, yet I want him to tell me the whole truth...BUT what do I believe, and when do I feel he's told me everything? How do I get myself out of this vicious circle?
Am gonna pull out DB again and start reading again....I think I need to invest in After the Affair" too.
You are right. You are obsessing. ******************************************** I do not trust him, yet I want him to tell me the whole truth...BUT what do I believe, and when do I feel he's told me everything? How do I get myself out of this vicious circle? ********************************************* You have not let go of the bad stuff yet, ie. resentment, suspicion, anger. It's still in you cooking. You need to let go of this crap on your own. No one can do it for you.
If the Webmaster said the account was 6 months without use, it is 6 months without use. Why do you think there is a conspiracy? Snooping yields circumstantial evidence that fuels more snooping.
Trust him? I would'nt. But I would try to give H the benefit of the doubt until something slaps you in the face. If he is still involved with OW, something will give a sign eventually.
Let go of the insecurity Me2. It will eat you up and destroy any hope for reconcilliation.
I am on my way home for the day and thought I'd check my post, I'm glad I did! I know what you say is true, most of the time I'm OK and it isn't so 'in my face'.
Honesty is a big one for me, above everything else I remember about growing up was honesty-and consequences. I'd get in more trouble for lying than I would for whatever I had done that I was lying about!
I never thought he'd lie, never thought he'd do this. Niave on my part-I alone take the blame for that one. I know...he did-I am still here willing to make a go of it, but I feel that until I trust him, which we both know I don't, and when I feel I have the whole truth (which is in itself a double edged sword, because I must believe him in order to trust him, the two are so inter-mixed) I will not be able to REALLY forgive him.
I'm gonna go home upbeat/happy and as comfortable in my own skin as I can be -not gonna be upset/mad/hurt...will let him bring this whole thing up-IF he wants. He is HERE with me and our kids....I will repeat this mantra all the way home!
I was good....didn't bring up OR- or why I was upset, I was not moody/unhappy/ angry/hurt/resentful-I tried to be as normal as I could be.
He brought it up just before we fell asleep. He said he was sorry for hurting me so deeply. He said he had nothing with OW and that it was all a lie. He did not remember setting up another IM account and had not talked to OW in over a year (she confirmed this in Nov) and I told him I believed him, I was not upset because I thought he was still in contact with OW, but that he was still holding back, and that it was like he was afraid to talk to me about his feelings at the time of his A and what/how he got to a place where he felt he had to do that. I told him that I realize I have not made it easy over the years for him to talk to me...which is funny because that's how we started out-as friends and all we did was talk - BOTH of us. I said that I was working hard on tempering my reactions, trying to hold my tongue more and not be so obvious with my emotions. He said he recognized the changes and that he could also see that sometimes it was difficult for me.
I need to figure out what exactly I want and what exactly I need and what exactly I expect from my marriage-like Kent said in another post....separate those things. I was living in a dream world before the A believing my marriage was so solid and that he meant his vows as much as I did (about the whole forsaking all others thing). I guess I made my marriage into something it was not-and maybe never could be.
I see commercials on TV of couples together and happy-go-lucky and it turns my stomach...one in particular I HATE is the one where the man takes his wife into an empty movie theater and they start watching their wedding video...then he gives her a 3-diamond anniversary ring..makes me want to HURL. My own fault for wanting that to be my reality. I understand that TV is make believe and that our real lives are in fact much different. (I also hate the Sandals Beach resort ones....)
Sometimes I don't even feel married anymore-it's like we're just living together. That bond was broken.
On the up side, I'm still here and I will try to make today a better day...but I wonder if I will ever feel the same about him? About our marriage?
L
p.s. one bit of excitement last night...the heimlick manuever works...after 4 thrusts I dislodged a butterscotch disk from my 5 year olds throat. VERY SCARY. I think my BP is finally back to normal now. H was right there with us-and managed to make us all laugh shortly thereafter.
Just wanted to tell you that even though things are going well for us I don't feel really married either. My H sees love as an ongoing decision that "depends". I see it as a commitment through thick and thin.
Seems like there are many levels to being "married". Our 10th anniversary is near the end of 2002--it would be nice to write new vows and enter a deeper commitment that year.
Me2, ALTL, I definitely feel married. However, I have changed my perspective as to what that includes. I am trying to get rid of all the silly expectations and preconceived notions that I entered my marriage with. Bliss, no way. Work, plenty of it. Happiness, absolutely.
Last night I came home to a W that put her arms around me and said I love you and a 5 year old son who gave me his first hand made card. No special occasion, just an I love you. Kinda makes all the pain worth while.
It really does get better and time does heal wounds.
There are many things H and kids do that make it all worth while, I have never thought that all this was not worth it-if I did (think it was NOT worth it), I certainly would not be here.
The marriage thing tho....that bothers me, I took my vows seriously-perhaps too seriously. My only guide to base things on is the one I saw (and see) from my parents and their marriage. They have been married for 35 years this year-HAD to get married (I have a 35 yo brother)-although they say they'd have gotten married anyway-it just sped up the process! They have always been fiercly loyal to one another-very 'hands-on' still laugh together-still have a healthy sex-life, they are best buds-I am very close with both of them, and even though they went through a rough period when I was a kid-counseling helped them (Marriage Encounter)-anyway-my point is that I have been trying to impose their type of marriage on my own. Expecting the same. Unrealistic. Like Kent said I need to id and then ACCEPT my marriage for what it is and nothing more.
They say that all you ever need to know you learn by Kindergarden-our moral personality is set at a very early age-and their marriage was the only example I had.
Thinking about my H's parents-married 50 years in June (with a 4 year break-divorce/re-marriage....they don't talk about it much-I only found out this year and we've been together goin on 10 years). Sure isn't a lot of love/affection there-confirmed by H's sister-not really a traditional "loving" home growing up-at least by my standards. I hope he feels comfortable enough at some point to let me in to that. Will bring it up in therapy next week-unrealistic expectations based on childhood experiences-maybe it will trigger something in him. (?)
I am also facing an anniversary-it will be 8 years on the 6th of March. Have not done any shopping. Don't think I will.(?) A card of course, but I got/made something sentimental on V-day and I'm not sure how well it was received, and I felt silly when he looked at it and wondered what the hell it was.
I am dreading my anniversary. I really just don't want to celebrate it at all. I still feel really uncomfortable wearing my rings-but H asked me to put them back on so I did. Maybe that's too much a "down" and "bad" attitude to take towards it. But like I said-I really don't feel married-not like I did before. I feel ashamed almost when I think about they way I used to feel, and how intense I was about it. Every time I see one of those reminders of a happy loving marriage I can't help but think (to myself of course) 'yeah right, give him X years-he'll be cheating'. Much resentment still, huh.
I have told H that at some point in the future I'd like to renew our vows-but I don't want to have anything to do with setting it up(initially)-he knows how I feel, if it's as important to him then he will make the first move at doing it. Sad thing here is that having said that-it will probably never happen if left up to him.
I let go of the resentment and other bad feelings 5 months ago. I felt it was essential to reach my goal. Did I think about leaving my W. Absolutely! There was a time last September where I felt it inevitable. Then I asked myself some questions.
What are my goals. 1. Be happy. 2. Be in a loving relationship with W. 3. Keep my family intact and healthy.
Nothing else is really important. If I did leave W, I could not meet 2 of my 3 goals. I don't presume that the next relationship would be any better than the current one. With my goals set. I started working on what it would take to achieve them. The resentment, disrespect and suspicion are counter productive to reaching any positive goal. I was in crisis when I snapped and let the bad feelings go. I still get twinges and do my best to squash them.
You are still on this quest. You need to focus on finding what it will take for you to let go. H can't give this to you. You must do it for yourself. I suggest you start by forgiving yourself for whtever it is you hold inside. Next, you need to find forgiveness for H. As Michele says, " forgiveness is a gift you give to yourself". Why? Because it lifts an enormous burden from your soul.
This is really important to address. Get whatever help you can. Perhaps your preist or minister can help provide counsel. In the end, you must let go. The only other choice is to bury it. I gaurantee, it will all resurface. It did for me.
Kent, thanks for the encouragement...I've been thinking about this all day-and after having gone through this whole thread again, the one by ALTL and the newest one between Michele and Joanne and the attached history-I have decided what to give my H for our anniversary on Tuesday.
My goals for our marriage. I have yet to put them on paper but have a few ideas....I just need to express them in a constructive and non-judgemental manner.
Between this, paying bills, kids (H is out of town) and studying for a biochem exam-it should be a fun evening!
