Such great news. I, too, have been wondering how it's been going for you! You were one of those who helped me so much.
I can relate to everything you have written - and may I add - written so eloquently!
Although it is so very difficult to understand and even more difficult to reach that point, it is that point of not NEEDING, but WANTING the marriage and H, that point of knowing we will be ok no matter the outcome. AND continually employing DBing techniques.
Lisa- You've asked a good question, but I'm not I know the accurate answer at the moment. At various points in my separation I considered relocating to be closer to my family and, I suppose, saw that the move might be a form of LRT. The whole concept, however, of what I was considering doing for me and my children and what I was considering doing for strategical purposes to get my H's immediate attention became blurred at some stage and I knew that I had to truly begin doing those things that were best for me and my children and alter them only if they would likely significantly impair reconciliation possiblities. Once I learned to slow down and stop worrying about H's plans, I was able to pay closer attention to the progress, albeit in baby steps, that H and I were making. I'll think more about your LRT quetion and post any additional thoughts to you on your thread.
Sue Ann- DBing really is something that has a solid place in my life. I think we all have some vulnerability to sliding back into old ways and ruts and that we, therefore, need to catch ourselves during weak moments. Interestingly, I see my H catch himself now and I smile to myself knowing that he too, without really knowing it, has incorporated DB principles into his half of the equation! I'm glad to read that things are going so well for you. I saw your recent post on Snodderly's thread and agree that it is pretty amazing when you think back to the way things were a year ago. You've done fantastically!
Take care--Jamie
[This message has been edited by jamie (edited 02-08-2001).]
Hi Jamie, old friend. Very glad to see that things are working out super well for you. I am still hobbling along with my h at this point.
I have a question for you. How did your h come to the conclusion that he was part of the problem? How did he figure out how to fix it? I'm sure you didn't tell him, or maybe you did, in a good solid Dbing sort of way.
Next, maybe you can remind us all again how you kept patience through the long dark tunnel, and didn't lose sight of your goals, which were to save your marriage and save yourself as well.
Did you at any time start feeling you had lost your love for h? Or that your resentment of the way he was treating you was welling up? And how did you handle that?
Hi Alex- Sorry to hear that things haven't changed much in your situation with your H.
I think my H realized a number of things on his own and, in part, because of some prodding by me. Although in the beginning he was clearly unprepared to take any responsibility for the problems we had encountered, he showed a willingness to listen and participate in conversations re. our troubles after I backed off for quite some time (many months). He simply had to be ready and open to see honestly where we went wrong. And, in addition to his readiness, I had to change my ways of trying to persuade him that I had all of the answers and plans to cure everything. I know that sounds very general and perhaps simplistic, but it really came down to completely abandoning the "blame game" and starting on a healthier course. It actually meant the two of us discussing our different approaches to life itself. For example, my analytical, detailed planning approach was fine on my own but did not always mix well with his more laid-back ways. The former was interpreted by him as control attempts. His style had threatened me I suppose because once there were children in the picture I felt and continue to feel planning was (and is) essential to a healthy environment. Nevertheless, we openly began talking about how desirable it was to strike a balance between what each of us felt was the other's extreme.
Although I've given you a specific example Alex, it is actually one that flowed over into a communication breakdown and resentment on both of our parts. I catch myself from overreacting to things and my H seems to show much more compassion and attentiveness to our relationship in every area. I don't try to read into every look and statement anymore and see the big picture more I guess.
The patience part of all of this until they are ready to accept and see things in a different light is tough one obviously. Each situation is riddled with its own specifics that make it feel almost intolerable at certain points. There were times during our separation when I wished that my H was around more so that he could feel all of the good things we'd shared in the past and could begin to share in the future, but, by contrast, there were those other times when I was so thankful that he wasn't here to see my weakest/neediest moments when I felt a compelling urge to do whatever it would take to make it all "perfect" right away. The fact is that they're ready when they're ready and not before then, whether we're living with them or separately.
My patience, which admittedly waivered at times, came from filling my time with many new things with my girls. There was almost nothing that I found I couldn't do with a 2 and 3 yr. old. I also got a sitter and did more things with friends when they were available. I needed to laugh more and regain my sense of humor, along with a love of life in its simplist forms. I couldn't let myself fall into the trap of analyzing everything too much like I had during the beginning stages of our separation. Life was simply too short to get too caught up in what he needed to go through on his own.
I'm not sure if any of this is helpful Alex, but the key seems to be to let your H do what he is going to do (you can't stop him) and focus on you and your children. It is probably impossible to know or fully understand what is going through his head so give up those attempts until he's ready.
You asked whether I fell out of love with my H and I can say that my feelings were on a real roller coaster and that my love was certainly blocked for a while. How much of that was an implicit reaction to the comments of "I only love you as the mother of my children" v. moving on emotionally I'll never really know I suppose. What I do know is that I have fallen in love with him in a new way. I guess that poses the question re. whether you can fall in love with someone again until you've fallen out of love with them. The distinction doesn't really matter, but I've learned a lot and have the benefit of hindsight to say that our new relationship is a million times better than our old one.
I'm thinking of you and hoping for the best--Jamie
Just wanted to let you know the above is very well put-thank you so much!
Question for you: Besides doing things with your daughters, did you find any new interests for yourself? Did your H visit the children at your house, his house or both? Did you ever try to create some "mystery" about yourself, as is recommended with the LRT? Just curious. I find myself to be very available and accommodating, and I'm left feeling like a doormat.
Jamie, Thanks for sharing what helped and worked for you. I'm learning so much from you. Alot of the things you say, seems to mirror my situation. I'm learning that I can't make H talk about something that he's not ready to discuss. I would go 6 weeks or so with bring up any OR talks and during this time we seem to draw closer. Then something comes over me and it's like I HAVE to know what's on his mind, what's up with us..etc...This always take us those two steps back So I appreciate you telling us that your H had to want to talk about it on his own. That lets me know that there is hope, and I have to practice more patience. I honestly feel that we (H & I) are going in the right direction. I just seem to get inpatient which leads to trying to read into like you said "every move". then there the doubt that things will get right. Stories like your give me the insight needed at the right time. Thank you again Jamie And I pray that God bless your marriage FBOW
Hi Everyone- Life is good my fellow DBers and we need to cherish all that we have. I found myself a little emotional today and fighting tears when I was stuck in traffic behind a car driven by an elderly man who was accompanied by elderly woman passenger. Their bumper sticker jumped out at me and read as follows: "My Grandaughter Was Killed By A Drunk Driver And I'm Madd." I didn't know them, but I somehow wished that they would pull over somewhere on my route so that I could follow and simply say that I was so sorry for their loss. That might seem to be a strange aside to recount here, but somehow I know there is some relevance because my real detachment started during my separation when I was able to see so much more clearly all that I had instead of the one-track vision of what was missing. It's an ongoing journey to make sure that I stay focussed on all of the wonderful things that are in my life and that bumper sticker today was just another reminder that life is so precious and unpredictable.
Hi Optimistic, my H visited me and our children at our house. He stayed here several times with our children when I went away for various weekends. Although at times I fluctuated re. whether he should have them at his house overnight for him to see what it would be like, he never pushed for it and I sincerely didn't want them confused unnecessarily at their young age (1 and 2 when he moved out). It did have the downside of my feeling like I needed to leave my home and go out when he visited the girls, but I realized that that it was a choice I was making in not encouraging or asking him to take them to his house and that I had to deal with those consequences. Optimistic, this was often not an easy situation and my emotions were definitely on a roller coaster. Yet, with good planning, I managed to get out of the house and visit friends for a movie or dinner, or simply head to the local Barnes and Noble for a good cup of coffee and lots of browsing time. I can relate to those moments of "doormat feelings" and my advice is to find additional positive things to do that are just for you. Do not assume that your H is thinking about things as much as you are and that he is, thus, just knowingly taking advantage of your good nature and flexibility. Reaching the point of being detached from your H will allow you shed the resentment of what he is or is not doing and permit you to live your life for you while remaining open to reconciliation.
I think I was mysterious after while and my H noted it, along with an increased confidence level on my part. I rarely made announcements re. my plans and resisted all temptations to date others. I realistically could not picture dating while my goal to be with my H again was at the forefront of things. Good luck Lisa.
Hi Survivor, I rarely initiated contact with my H unless there was something pressing re. our children. It got easier to resist those "have to call him" moments when I truly was able to sit back and predict the UNLIKELIHOOD of him giving the reassurance that "everything would be o.k. for us" when I felt like I needed that reassurance the most. Neediness, when they are in the middle of their own drama and issues, I've found drives them further away and that, in turn, leads to feelings of setbacks that we beat ourselves up over afterwards. A miserable cycle, huh? So, it perhaps comes down to slowing down your reaction time and understanding what your goals of initiating contact really are and whether they will likely be achieved. Each situation is different though so you have to think about the dynamics with your W and what her needs may be at the time (uninterupted time, opportunity to miss you more, a 180 in hearing things she's never heard before...). Hang in there Survivor.
Hi FBOW, the dynamic of getting closer and then needing some spoken assurance of progress is so fresh in my memories. To be perfectly honest with you, I think those needs of mine, which drove me early on to initiate many OR conversations, may have, in part, prolonged my separation. Ahhh, if hindsight could only be bottled and sold! We would have a few good outings and I'd inquire "so, don't you feel better about things?" I, of course, wanted to hear a resounding "YES," but he would often withdraw and say something along the lines of "can't you just let things be for a while and enjoy this withouth analyzing it?" They're in a different place when they've left. They may be tempted to return, but are afraid. We know we want them back more than anything else and then somehow through loving detachment we need to be o.k. with the possibility that all of the wonderful evenings out together may not guarantee their return. When you know you'll be o.k. if he doesn't return FBOW you'll be able to analyze less and enjoy more. He may sense your ease and confidence and you may reach a turning point sooner. Best wishes FBOW.
Hi Theressa, I think things really improved dramatically once he returned when we both started listening to each other more closely and gave more thought before reacting. For example, I needed more empathy from him and he needed to feel "safer" in expressing ideas and proposals re. things with which he knew I'd likely disagree substantively or procedurally. In simple terms, we are kinder to one another and I think openly have and show more respect for each other.
Goodnight everyone and maintain that positive mental attitude--Jamie
