Lil: Part of what you're doing is telling yourself that cac's happiness and satisfaction level is directly related to what you do or don't do in the sex department. That whether he grades you as an A or a C or God forbid a D has something to do with his happiness and your worth as a person.
I think it mostly comes down to my worth as a person, both to the outside world and to myself. And the universal fear that I am not lovable. My son has a stuffed Elmo that talks when you squeeze it. One of the things Elmo says is "You're so lovable." That struck me when I first heard it. I say that to S4 quite a bit. I want him to believe that -- no matter what -- he is lovable.
Your self-confidence in the sexual arena is not something that he can fix-- as you've pointed out, even when he tells you everything is fine, you can't quite believe him.
I know. This is more of the same fear. I might have more confidence in the sexual arena if I had had an HD experience previously. But I'm in uncharted territory. I still don't even know my sexual potential. And I don't know when -- or if -- I'll reach it.
I talked about to cac over the weekend about his smoking. I don't usually mention it because of the typical reasons: he's a grownup, I can't make him quit, nagging is counterproductive, etc. But it is a barrier. And of course, I'd like him to quit for the usual reasons: his health, his quality of life, even money. And because it was a turn off for me I was always aware that it was having an impact on his sex life because there have been, and continue to be, times that I chose to not initiate with him because of the smoking. But the key is that I always saw the situation as one where he would get more sex from me if he didn't smoke. And that continues to be true. But I also now see the situation as one where *I* would get more sex if he didn't smoke. I always disliked his habit, but now it ticks me off even more because it's cutting into my opportunities to have sex! Part of it is because I just want more sex now, but part of it is because it feels like the smoking is getting in my way of reaching my sexual potential.
But then I stop and think that I have to accept things as they are right now. He smokes. He showers, etc. if I ask him to, or if he initiates. But the reality for me and for us is that his smoking means fewer opportunities for sex. And he knows this because I have told him.
I guess I'm still not at a point where I believe that it's OK for me to not want to have sex with him when he wants to. **Even though he told me yesterday that it is perfectly acceptable within our current SL.** But because I've been LD with a history of turning down cac or just generally not being interested, I have real difficulty feeling OK with opting not to have sex. Honestly, I don't feel like I deserve that option. Consciously, logically, I can tell myself that it's OK. But at a deep level, it feels like I don't have the right. So what does that mean? I think it means that even though cac has forgiven me for my past behavior, I have not forgiven myself.
Corri: Thanks. I am interested in hearing your thoughts.
talked about to cac over the weekend about his smoking. I don't usually mention it because of the typical reasons: he's a grownup, I can't make him quit, nagging is counterproductive, etc. But it is a barrier. And of course, I'd like him to quit for the usual reasons: his health, his quality of life, even money. And because it was a turn off for me I was always aware that it was having an impact on his sex life because there have been, and continue to be, times that I chose to not initiate with him because of the smoking. But the key is that I always saw the situation as one where he would get more sex from me if he didn't smoke. And that continues to be true. But I also now see the situation as one where *I* would get more sex if he didn't smoke. I always disliked his habit, but now it ticks me off even more because it's cutting into my opportunities to have sex! Part of it is because I just want more sex now, but part of it is because it feels like the smoking is getting in my way of reaching my sexual potential.
I think it's great that you are owning your sexual preferences but be careful not to slip from dysfunctional LD thinking to dysfunctional HD thinking. Cac's smoking habit is not effecting your opportunities to have sex. Your decision to remain in a monogamous sexual relationship with a man who smokes is limiting your opportunities to have sex. Of course, it's not necessarily a bad thing to make conscious decisions that limit your sexuality. The important thing, IMO, is to actually make decisions in alignment with unrepressed personal preferences and not to just reflexively do the "right" or easy thing. I would have had a heck of a lot more respect for my 2bx if he had actually just said "I really would prefer to sexually interact with a woman who looks a bit more like Kylie Minogue than you." and left me in pursuit of that goal. BTW some of us who interacted with bad boys in our shameless youth actually find the smell of tobacco rather manly erotic, just like some grown-up bad boys actually do prefer women who look a bit more Anna Nicole Smith than Kylie Minogue.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
You make a good point and one that helps me understand better the idea of owning my choices, preferences and boundaries.
The boundary thing is a challenge for me because, for example, I break my no-sex-without-a-shower boundary sometimes. Other times I'm not interested unless he's had a shower. I'm inconsistent for a variety of reasons. During ovulation the smoking is pretty much irrelevant. Other times of the month I can barely tolerate it.
After thinking about this, I see that I need to own my preference for the showering and stick to it. It's fear that's getting in the way of sticking to it.
After thinking about this, I see that I need to own my preference for the showering and stick to it.
A related question for this, might be: why?
If sometimes, your husband doesnt shower and you still have sex with him, because he doesnt smell bad enough to turn you off at that point... then why is that a "problem"?
To stick to a boundary, when there is no actual "harm" done to you, isnt a boundary any more. It seems more like an attempt to control your husband.
Maybe you might redefine your boundary in that area, to, "Wont have sex with H when he smells bad enough to turn me off".
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
You know, it sounds really awful when you put it that way.
But enforcing or not enforcing the boundary isn't even the issue. The issue is that if I am truly to own my sexuality and my desire to have sex, I need to be able to ask my husband to take a shower, to tell him that I want to have sex with him. I miss opportunities for sex because I am afraid to ask him/tell him. It's not because he won't take the shower. It's because I am still uncomfortable asking.
BTW, Mojo, I find it interesting that you found the smell of smoke to be erotic. More power to you. But as you said, I need to own my preferences and make decisions based on them, and this is a big one.
I am a non-smoker and I find the smell of cigarette smoke plus Wrigleys gum to be comforting. My grandfather smoked Lucky Strikes and chewed Wrigleys. It isn't an erotic smell but weirdly it doesn't turn me off. Cigarettes on someone's breath - well, I probably wouldn't like that too much.
My first boyfriend smelled of Pepsi and leather (due to his jacket) - very erotic! Weird, I know.
My H has his own smell that I am really drawn to. I cannot explain it but it is uniquely him. I sometimes think that his body chemistry and mine have some kind of biological stamp of approval on the combination because even though he acts completely non-sexual toward me a lot of the time - his smell makes me hottttttttttt.
You DO need to be able to say Honey, take a shower and while you are doing so I will lay on this bed with a hot novel and get ready or I will shower with you or I will chat with you in the bathroom while you shower. Whatever. IT is important to recognize too that our associations with certain smells and other cues can change. A smell that was sexy can become a turn off with certain associations and one that is a turn off can become sexy too. What would happen if you imagined your smokey smelling favorite guy as a bad boy, James Dean kind of character in your own little sexual drama?? or maybe he is a James Bond kinda guy, suave, man of the world and you are drawn in by the glamour????????
mrs cac - I realize I am late at chiming in here, but I do want to comment. Way back in your first post, you said;
"So now I wonder....should we stay here and continue to read posts and get insight into issues like this? Or, should we move on and focus on the future and let the past lie? Or will the past come back to bite us if we aren't fully aware of its impact on us?
I guess what I'm afraid of is that neither I nor cac will ever really see me as anything but a recovering LDW. And an LDW is such a bad thing to be."
I think posting is akin to journaling - you need to post during the good and bad times to really get in touch with your feelings and benefit from the kernels of wisdom dropped by others. Share the good moments and lean on others during the hard ones. You've certainly let me do my share of leaning on you in the short time I've been a member.
As for the LDW label, it stinks. Absolutely. It would be nice if we could get rid of HD and LD and talk about NORMAL desire which fluctuates for most people. My H has the fortune (or misfortune depending on how you look at it)to be HD. The labels of HD and LD do allow us to "talk" to one another on this board.
But honestly - don't we really have normal desire? We each have a young child - and that alone is so draining. How many nights do you get him to bed to literally just fall down on your own bed and pass out?
As for the smoking - that is a tough one and you do need to set your own paramenters. I like my H to brush his teeth. He's more than willing if he knows he's going to have S!
We are still doing the taking turn thing. It's been a couple of weeks now. I really do feel less pressure - can't really explain why. I too feel, at this point, I need a really good reason to turn him down if he intiates. But I've learned if I communicate the reason that he is okay with that. And especially if I say, I can't right now because of x but how about later today/tomorrow. That way, I get to say not right now instead of 'no." See the difference?
I could keep writing to you for a long time but my thoughts are starting to drift. I mostly wanted you to know how much I value your input. Thank you for all of your "listening" to my struggles, and I hope in some small way this post returns the favor.
But enforcing or not enforcing the boundary isn't even the issue. The issue is that if I am truly to own my sexuality and my desire to have sex, I need to be able to ask my husband to take a shower, to tell him that I want to have sex with him. I miss opportunities for sex because I am afraid to ask him/tell him. It's not because he won't take the shower. It's because I am still uncomfortable asking.
It's nice that you recognize that, as the biggest "issue", rather than boundaries.
It's a little sad that you are denying yourself (and your H!) fun, because you are "uncomfortable" asking.
are you uncomfortable asking him to take a shower, or uncomfortable asking him to have sex?
If for some reason you are only uncomfortable asking him to take a shower [in order to have sex].....
maybe you could just ask him to "join you in the shower"
(no-one says you have to STAY in the shower once he's cleaner....)
Side note to Mr. Cac:
Guy, if you're not reading this thread, and thinking to yourself, "I am going to take a shower, EVERY TIME I COME HOME NOW!!"
*smack**smack**smack*** wake up!!! *smack**smack*
Last edited by Dom R; 02/04/0807:59 PM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
