Battlefield of the mind

[LoginName]

Hi Cat,
A couple of thoughts about this. I think, maybe, it's a process you have to go through. You can try to shorten the process but maybe you just have to let it go too, like anger or the other feelings. In other words, don't beat yourself up about it.

But, you can try to shorten the time it takes. I'd suggest a couple of things. Don't discuss it with your H, at least not until he's ready to be there for you. Second, detach more. What do you care if he is lying or telling the truth. It doesn't matter. If it affects you or the kids directly, then it's important and you need to take steps to make sure you don't depend on him or that the damage he can cause is minimal. But if he is seeing the OW and lies about it, so what? If he lies to the OW, so what? He either will or he won't lie, you can't control it. Let it go. Easier said then done, but maybe it would work.

After an affair, do some people need to know the details, and know the "truth"? I'm struggling with how much I want or need to know. What ever I learn, it won't really change anything. You already know the important facts too. You can't change the past.

There you have it, IMHO, don't care what he says. You can be nice, listen, smile, but don't care. Maybe like listening to a small child describe their day at school. You know martians really didn't land and zap the teacher, or that the preceived insult from the other kid was probably much less important than the kid thinks, but you listen, validate in a way, and you don't believe. You don't question the kid to trap him in a lie, you let it go. Is that a good analogy?

What's the verdict so far, Cat? Is S helpful? Are you feeling better, more in control, sleeping better?

[appleroad]

Cat, it does sound like you are doing very well in yourself with this Sep, you are doing OK living on your own, managing well with the kids and managing the household, developing a bit of a social life without relying on H. I think you are sending a very powerful message to H with this, it increases your power in the relationship when you are not so dependent on your partner.

it never fails, whenever we have an R argument something goes really bad at his job and he has a mini nervous breakdown which ends up being me "piling on him" and that i'm pushing him away, argh!!!
Well, I'm also on "high alert" and my BS radar is on high so that I put anything he says into the radar and look for any and all possible ways he might be telling me lies... thus making him feel I"m giving him the 3rd degree.

A tip from another person 'reconciling while separated' FWIW: we don't do this anymore, but in the beginning we had one scheduled session per week, lasting for about an hour, by phone, where I could ask him EMA questions. I always had my questions prepared ahead of time, and a paper and pencil to take notes. I would ask the questions, he would answer and I would write down his answers. The basic idea was that I would simply record the answers and not get into arguments or reactions over the answers. Most of the time I was able to honor this agreement. But if I didn't he was allowed to call me on it.

I agree with Aud and others, it's a good idea to catch them doing something good, not the reverse. It's not good to put them into a situation where they might have to lie their way out of it.

Also, I was wondering, do the two of you have any formal agreement about H contact with OP?

[cat03]

But if he is seeing the OW and lies about it, so what? If he lies to the OW, so what? He either will or he won't lie, you can't control it. Let it go. Easier said then done, but maybe it would work.

I SO wished I'd read this before.

He's on his way to see her right now... I called her a while ago...

THis pm I get home 1hr late from work, ice on roads, dangerous to drive, H leaves in a hurry waving off my warnings, he's dressed differently & hair is combed nice. I got to the computer and hidden there is a v-day card he made for her.

We had a written agreement that during the S we wouldnt' date (we were supposed to sign it but didnt' get to do so). He said last time that his contact w/her was sporadic, also, the phone he got that time was disconnected today... i actually harbored some hope.

My lifeline (a friend from work) warns me that ow wont' care nor believe me, all she wants is him and not much will be gained if i call her, but to do so if it brings me closure.I loose it and call her. SUre enough the ho doesn't care nor believe me, talks to me fine as pie, 100% sure D is happening, I tell her about our date last night, the fake S papers he was trying to make, that there is no D. Nothing moves her, she said come March "we'll see", denies ever calling me an unfit mother, that H says the opposite. Suuuure. I tell her about the note I found, she shuts up. Tell her i know about her sex contract which no one is supposed to know but her and H, she is quiet for a bit. Says she doesn't have anything to do with me.
Not much to say to that, other than to tell her to tell H that he shouldnt' have bothered to take me out last night (bet H will bs his way out of that one) and that i didn't want him to think he could fool me.

Breath wasted perhaps, but H's night won't be the total bliss he expected it, so he might bs his way out, but the fear of yeat facing his lies with me will keep him on his toes. His phone is lost so we can't talk.

I was totally furious and had all sorts of ideas 30mins ago. Until my friend tells me, like LN, to LET GO. I was angry that ow was going to win and friend tells me "you want that kind of man to be the father of your children?, are you going to be the 'crazy woman' out to fight him from ow?". That no matter what I did H was not going to change, to leave this in the hands of God who will work ALL things for the good of his children. That if H will be the man for our family he will shape up and win his family back, that nothing I do will make him do anything (I keep forgetting that).

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I had a good cry, I actually was holding to some hope for a bit before tonight, but this lunatic still wants to play casanova and I dont want to put myself out there for him to hurt me. I must go dark, dont' know what else I could do, we had plans to do something this weekend (is not his weekend w/kids) but I don't know how can I even look at his face now.

If this goes south, I know I will be ok, but what if this ow is near my children? that thought alone terrorizes me. H has said repeadtly how he'd be nuts to have an R with her, how it'd never work... and lo and behold, at it again.

I've prayed and cried out to the Lord, this is totally his fight, He'll either eventually send me my H in good shape, another man who will make me happy or his grace might have to suffice so I can be happy with my kids. Pray for me, I'm trying to put all my faith in God right now, I need His strenght badly.

[Aud31]

AARRGGHH. Cat, I'm so sorry. This hurts (gross understatement), and it sucks, and unfortunately it's not surprising. Been there.

Your friend is right and you are dead on when you say you need to go dark. You have to. Let go and find healing without him.

Love you hon. Take care. I'm praying for you tonight.

[cat03]

thanks Aud)))))
Just found this gems on Frank's thread, dead on, written "for me":

This is Frank quoting our dear dear grasshopper

I hate to say this CM, but you HAVE TO ACCEPT that it might be over, at least for now, it IS over. Your W may not return but you have to let her go, and I mean REALLY let her go to find out if she ever will.

Every time you have one of your "blow ups" it's because you allow your perception of what SHOULD be, or what COULD be to become a weapon which her perfectly normal reactions to you use to inflict pain.

She is acting like a woman who is ready to divorce, sure the marriage is over and is moving forward with her life. You are acting like a husband who's wife continues to do things to hurt him and can't figure out why, as if there were no separation, no pending divorce, no OM, no future other than the one where everything goes back to "normal."

Unfortunately, THIS IS NORMAL in your life right now and the sooner you embrace that, the better.

I am not saying to give up on reconciliation but I am saying to let go of that expectation.

I know how this goes. I know why you lash out. You don't know what to do and you just get to your wits end, thinking that if you are shocking enough, you will shock her into reality, YOUR reality, and she'll realize just how foolish and selfish she's being.

The sad part is that it's her life to do that with if she wishes and the longer you force yourself into the role of "daddy" keeping her from making her own decisions, the longer you will be trapped in this role of miserable left-behind husband.

One last time. Keep this in the forefront of your head 100% of the time as you make decisions that you HOPE may influence her to give your marriage another chance some day.

SHE HAS TO WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU!!!!!

Everything you do/say in regards to her should pass through the filter of "will this make her want to come back more?" If the answer is no, then don't do it. The would mean you would stop begging, stop being an a$$, start DBing and GAL, invest in your counseling/meetings, in short, be a upstanding, compassionate, loving man who extends those things first to himself, then to the rest of the world.

Again. Before you even ask us, you should have already asked yourself; Is what I am about to do going to make it more or less likely that she will return some day?

Do this and you will start to get ahead of the game.

I AM FREE TO BE ME instead of being who I think she wants me to be

[cat03]

another great post from franks' thread by Astimegoeson:

That anger and sense of abandonment was the hardest part of this whole process for me to deal with initially. I felt the urge to knock her rebellious arse over the head with a club and drag her back into my cave by her hair. There was no way I was going to let a rival take away what was rightfully mine. Those good ol days are gone, so I had to come up with an alternative. Society gave them free choice.

I came to the realization that maybe I could be happy in my cave without her. I've been experimenting over the last couple of years in doing just that and I can report to you that I'm doing just fine in my cave on my own. I think its all in our ability to do that if we can just leave that caveman mentality to the curb. Anger, jealousy, and possessiveness is a primeval instinct and a strong one we need to learn to control. We are not entitled to ANYTHING in life. Including life it's self. As easy as it comes, it can go. We need to learn to appreciate what's at our feet in the moment realizing it could be gone or replaced in the next. We cling so desperately to what we've acquired thinking we deserve it, we earned it. We start looking at life as if there were a scarcity of things that make us happy. We do anything to hold on to it, because there is no substitute for it. If we learn to look at life as if there is an abundance and it's ours for the taking, loss wouldn't make us so unhappy. We can simply let go and look a head to the next treasure we dig up. It's out there all around us. It won't matter in the end because we are not going to take anything in this world with us when we are gone. Our best hope is to leave
some goodwill behind.

My anger has dissipated because I'm learning to live in the moment and enjoy what is in front of me at the time. It took me a while to understand and recognize the truth in this principle. It has calmed the hurt and anxiety in me.

[cat03]

and from my dear always_14

Always be proud of that. Always be proud of the man you chose to become, in the toughest of circumstances.

This is about her. This is not your failure or shame, though those feelings are hard to shake....I know.

[ACJ]

Cat,
Thanks for those posts. I needed to read them today to.

[ntl]

I've prayed and cried out to the Lord, this is totally his fight, He'll either eventually send me my H in good shape, another man who will make me happy or his grace might have to suffice so I can be happy with my kids. Pray for me, I'm trying to put all my faith in God right now, I need His strenght badly.

Oh, cat. I hate this. I wish you had a whole, loving H that supported you and was there for you. Instead, you've got a shell of a man, consumed by uncertainty, addictive feelings for OW, and a very, very shaky understanding of morality.

I am thinking of you often and praying that YOU will be okay, no matter what. And I know already that you will be. I firmly believe God does not give us anything we cannot handle and that He, in his infinite wisdom, has a plan for us. All this hurt means something, cat. It is His will that we learn a lesson from the dark days (and the good days!) in our lives, and go forward in Him, loving and whole.

You're a good mother and wonderful person. H can't mess that up.

Regards,

ntl

[LoginName]

Cat,
You are right. You found very good quotes. We all need reminding of those points, even during the good times.

I think you're right. Go Dark. LRT.

You're H has become a moron. I had felt sorry for him, but I'm over that. What an idiot.

I love the Frank qoute (was it Frank?) about how abundant life is, how much joy is out there. You don't need to be possessive of one joy, 'cause there's more coming, if you just look up and see it.

And the strength and joy is within you. It was never in him, it always came from you, for you, and always will.

Cat, I really wish I could help more. I don't pray often, but I'll sincerely pray for you.