Over the course of the last few months, I've shared some long one-on-one conversations with a total of six trusted individuals I know about my situation. Without writing a book, my story is similar to so many as have been related on this board (HD's in LTR's with LD's and all that goes with it). Previous to this, I kept my problems strictly between myself and my spouse.
What I have found interesting is the different takes that different folks have with this circumstance, and their varying outlooks. Although all of them are intelligent, introspective folks, who did a great job of listening, asked pertinent, penetrating questions, and appeared to give considerable thought to things, they came down in different directions.
At one end of the spectrum, a man I'll call ONE is a fairly religious man, expressed amazement that the degree of suffering I described. With great compassion, he stressed that I cannot divorce my wife, no matter what, citing the biblical view that God hates divorce. He felt that the only real christian course of action would involve toughing it out, if necessary, and that the redress for my misery will come in the afterlife. (Easy for you, who haven't walked in my shoes to say, I thought!) I like to think of myself as a christian, and many of his words continue to haunt me.
TWO is a long-time business associate of mine, still married to his first wife, who, while not terribly religious, simply believes divorce to be just too sad (and too expensive!) a thing to contemplate. And sad it is.
THREE is a mature clergyman, who has, by now, heard every marital conflict story under the sun, including mine. He actually opined that NOT participating in the sexual aspect of marriage is a form of adultery! He recommended I track down a copy of Dr. Marie N. Robinson's "The Power of Sexual Surrender", a late-50's era book that dealt with what we used to call "frigidity". Though some folks may find parts of it simplistic or even offensive, and terminology may be dated, it was an interesting read. One of the case study examples was so similar to my wife it was astonishing. (FWIW, my wife eventually read it and pronounced it complete crap, oh well). On the balance, this fellow was fairly non-judgemental of my situation, and I was left with the impression that one could actually choose divorce and still remain a christian.
At the other end of the spectrum, after hearing my story, FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX were pretty strong that I need to confront my guilt and it was entirely reasonable for me to get divorced. FOUR is a fellow in his 50's with whom I have much in common, other than the fact that he's still happily married to his first wife and continues to have a satisfying sex life.
FIVE is a single middle-aged woman who I've known platonically for some time and who would comfortably describe herself as HD (she looked at it rather simplistically, opining, "listen, if my man doesn't want to F me, I'm out of here, period!").
SIX is a currently married woman, an attorney, who has begun divorce proceedings herself, she being the HD partner with a LD spouse(don't jump to any conclusions, we aren't each others' types). She likewise believes divorce the best remedy. Though it should be pointed out that her spouse has other severe behavioral issues far beyond those of my wife.
Different people, different reactions. And these are the only individuals on this earth I've discussed this with.
I've been separated from my spouse for over a month now. Family members have been prying as to the reason for the discord, and I uniformly tell them I'm not going to discuss it with any of them. I truly want to spare my wife the embarassment I know she'll feel if so much as a peep gets back to her, and all it takes is one leak.
Anyhow, this is a little thumbnail about different human reactions to the same story, and I thought it might be a worthwhile conversation-starter.
I personally would tend to discount the "too expensive" and "against God's will" opinions for the purposes of the discussion.
All I know is it's a major bitch if your SO is not really into sex and you are. It's one of those fundamental things about a relationship that you can't really work around, it either works or it doesn't. You can always compromise on other things, but with this I just can't see it.
You can always compromise on other things, but with this I just can't see it.
It depends upon the degree of compromise involved, as discussed on other threads. Also, it depends upon the willingness of the parties involved to resolve their differences in a mutually respectful way.
But, as has been pointed out, it is more often than not a long, torturous road, and sometimes you find out it's a dead end.
Hi MM - I am a LDW. Believe me, I think about sex as much as my H does - for different reasons. I feel pressured. Memories of screaming, name calling, etc sometimes cause me to tense up. Criticisms made about the very act itself.
I just posted my first long post in this forum. I want our marriage to work. This has become such a hotbed for us, we are polarized. I'm struggling to find ways to bring us closer together. Most of my suggestions seem to fall on deaf ears.
So, that's my question for you. Did you listen? Really? Or did you pressure without meaning to. I have begged for romance and conversation. Maybe it wouldn't restore my libido, but it would at least allow me to relax enough to enjoy the idea of sex with my H.
At some point, it becomes an aversion that you have to get past. It is very, very hard. I'm hoping we make it. Maybe there is still a chance for you?
Is your W shy? Does it help if she's tipsy? There must be soemthing she likes? I like it when my husband buys me something he likes to see me wear. It makes me feel special.
natural testosterone helped me - it's about the only thing - but I stopped because it made me gain weight. Now I'm struggling again. No interest. No dreams. Believe me - it is frutrating for me too. Why am I not allowed to feel good?
Don't know if any of this helps. But I'm here...somewhat in your W's shoes...
I personally would tend to discount the "too expensive" and "against God's will" opinions for the purposes of the discussion.
Why? I think they are both valid view points. Not having sex causes suffering. So does decreasing your standard of living as well as the standard of living of your wife and children. Not following your moral convictions also causes suffering.
Sometimes we have to choose our least objectionable form of hell.
SM
P.S. You did say "personally", and I can agree on that score as far as god's will. Since I am middle class, I cannot disregard the material shortcomings, even if they are not enough to induce me to stay. But I am certain my children's lives will be worse off, which would cause me great moral suffering should I divorce.
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
So, that's my question for you. Did you listen? Really? Or did you pressure without meaning to.
Is your W shy? Does it help if she's tipsy? There must be soemthing she likes? I like it when my husband buys me something he likes to see me wear. It makes me feel special.
LS, I've been at this for ten years. Ten years of praying, ten years of suffering. I feel as though I tried it all. Acts of kindness, loving words, back rubs, preparing special meals. Pressure? At one point, I simply quit pursuing sexual activity with her, since it led to either rejection or obligatory sex, (and yes, all the while there was daily non-sexual touching), just to see how long it could go before she would eventually give in and perhaps show some interest in sex; I got my answer - she could go for a lifetime without it. As far as she is concerned, the real problem with our marriage is the fact that I not only have this disgusting desire for sexual contact with my spouse, but am rude enough to make it an issue.
Originally Posted By: Light Seeker
I like it when my husband buys me something he likes to see me wear. It makes me feel special.
If it were only so easy. My wife is modest in the extreme; no kidding, she has a figure most 18 year old girls would kill their best friend to have, yet has never worn a stitch of lingerie or sexy attire, and won't consider it(she says it just isn't "her"). I called her beautiful every day, and I know it made her feel special. What it never did make her feel was horny.
Some people, I believe, are just born LD. Physical issues, psychological issues, I don't know and I no longer care. I've often thought if my own son (previous M) ever found himself married to an LD woman, my advice to him would be to get out ASAP.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but today, that's the way it is.
Also read anything you can from The Berman Sisters. If anyone understands the female problems with sex, it would be them. The first thing they will recommend a LD women do is EXERCISE to create testosterone, to create good body image, and to relieve stress.
As far as she is concerned, the real problem with our marriage is the fact that I not only have this disgusting desire for sexual contact with my spouse, but am rude enough to make it an issue.
Amen, brother.
Of course, the kernel of truth in that statement is this: your desire to have sex with someone who does not want to have sex with you, well, yes, that is pretty disgusting. It says more about you than it says about her, though.
SolidMechanic's point about the morality of leaving one's children worse off financially is, right now, my biggest internal battle. Because of my acceptance of the above point (why have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with me?), I have left the battlefield of "trying to convince her to have sex with me" behind. She won that battle, but stands proudly by her flag in the middle of a country in which I no longer care to live and about which, I no longer care.
I personally would tend to discount the "too expensive" and "against God's will" opinions for the purposes of the discussion.
Why? I think they are both valid view points. Not having sex causes suffering. So does decreasing your standard of living as well as the standard of living of your wife and children. Not following your moral convictions also causes suffering.
Sometimes we have to choose our least objectionable form of hell.
SM
P.S. You did say "personally", and I can agree on that score as far as god's will. Since I am middle class, I cannot disregard the material shortcomings, even if they are not enough to induce me to stay. But I am certain my children's lives will be worse off, which would cause me great moral suffering should I divorce.
You said "Not having sex causes suffering. So does decreasing your standard of living as well as the standard of living of your wife and children". You can actually do something about the second item, whereas you are SOL on the first if you are married to a person who is stuck in LD mode. A critical difference IMO.
All I know is it's a major bitch if your SO is not really into sex and you are. It's one of those fundamental things about a relationship that you can't really work around, it either works or it doesn't. You can always compromise on other things, but with this I just can't see it.
Stu, I, like you I'm sure, have given this topic a tremendous amount of thought and study over the course of the last decade. And to what place has this gotten me? In my case, and I'm not happy to say this, but in essentially complete agreement with your remarks.
