First of all I would like to say that this group of people is a great resource. You all as a group are some of the most intelligent, thoughtful people I have ever had the pleasure to "meet".
With that being said, are we fooling ourselves that any of this is helping? I have been around since about 2005. I have watched for signs but I can only point to a couple of success stories here. I don't count NOP as his path to success was already laid down before I got here. I see GEL, maybe HP as successes. IC and LFL are looking good but it is still early in the game for them. I have seen Mojo's and Fearless's marriages dissolve and the slow dissolution of Lil's R. I now read of perhaps impending doom in Hairdog's and Choc's situations. The rest of us seem to be doing more or less the same as we were 3 years ago (now there is a depressing thought). While I don't know how those who have left us are doing (how's it going Chrome/Cobra/Chrissy?), my thought process would suggest that we would have at least heard if the sitch's were successfully resolved.
So I ask the philosophical question: Are the successes because of what we learn here and the failures in spite of it or is it all just a random crap shoot and our time here could be better spent painting the house or on some other tangible if mundane triumph?
Or do I just need to get laid so my brain stops spinning so much?
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
Well, I certainly * learned my lesson * and don't plan on going back to being LD again. I think we can always * learn * from each other, bounce ideas off each other, get feedback on what we have found works/doesn't work. Unfortunately for some, if both partners in an M aren't willing to work on *things,* nothing is going to ever change, at least not permanently. If both partners don't realize how much literally WORK an M takes to keep alive, said M's are going to end up back in the same rut they were in.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
It's hard to say. Personally, I've learned a bit which has helped reduce the stress on me and my wife. That reduced stress has resulted in an increase in intimacy over time.
Has it been frustrating? Yes. Am I satisfied? No. Am I able to deal with it better? Yes. Has this site helped? Yes. I've been able to trade war stories and learn from a female's perspective through discussions on the board.
I think without intensive couples counseling with a certified and well trained professional most will find it tough to make any major breakthroughs.
So, I'll still be here awhile as a slow steady improvement is better than nothing. I wish there was a magic pill to make everyone's relationships better overnight, but for most it's just one long, hard trudge without any guarantees of success.
Just my opinion and I'm glad you asked the question.
Well, at the risk of sounding like Jerry Seinfeld, it all depends on what you mean by success. Even though my R has morphed out of the romantic zone, I've learned and grown so much from it and from discussing it on this BB. If I turn the clock back to Sept 2004 when I came on board (hehehe) here, and then slow-foward to today WITHOUT the insights I've gained here, the books I've read because of the BB, the head-clearing I've been able to do here, the feedback... I don't know where I would be.
Yeah, the overt purpose of our being here is to "fix" the R's we're in so that we're having regular sex. But there's a lot more to it than that...
Look at how much hairdog has grown and changed, and Journey, choc, Mojo... corri has been though some stuff, the IC's have been through a ton, karen has had another baby, Fran's H has stopped drinking, fearless has gotten married... we can't measure "success" by the # of times per week people are getting it vs. a year ago, ya know? (I know that's not what you meant.)
Look at the trip Journey took to Israel and put out petitions in the Wailing Wall. Has that ever happened on a non-Chasidis BB before?
You're right that this is an extraordinary community of thoughtful, caring, witty, intelligent, insightful people. So yeah, there are many different kinds of success, some where the R improves, some where it dissolves, and some where the external R looks the same (for now), but where deep changes are going on inside the person.
I want to thank this community for helping me work on self growth and relationship issues ( the two go hand in hand) without compromising my self respect. I know I would not have made it this far without this groups' insights and comraderie. I was never a relgious person, but I have somehow restored my faith, hope and love through the spririt of you wonderful people. Winston Churchill once said, You will never get to the end of the journey, but this, far from discouraging, only adds to the joy and glory of the climb." Personally, I am proud of all of you for continuing on the path, and I wish each and every one of you health and happiness.
Lil, I get what you are saying and personal growth is all well and good but sometimes it seems like this board is better at preparing us for our next relationship than at trying to salvage the current one. A good thing if it comes to that but not really the primary reason we all started dropping by.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
For me the greatest help has been in realizing that there are other people out there who are feeling the same overwhelming emotions, that I am not going insane,
Especially in our case where we chose not to tell anyone about the A and all that, I have no one to talk to. Even if I did, no one would understand it truly unless they have been through what we have.
In addition I have met a true soul mate here who has helped me beyond description. that is limbo and in her situation the M is coming back together and the old H she married is coming back.
Without this, there would be one less mouth to feed, OM and I would be in jail, just kidding, but it has helped me immensely, especially when feeling down,
I sometimes feel a little bad in a way posting a happy or success story because I know how much other people are hurting and suffering but perhaps that is what we should do, to show how much good truly comes out of here.
OK, Balto, I am on a Winston Churchill kick, and these are for you...hope you find some inspiration here!
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope. Winston Churchill
Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed. Winston Churchill
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. Winston Churchill
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference. Winston Churchill
Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all. Winston Churchill
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential. Winston Churchill
Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others. Winston Churchill
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. Winston Churchill
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. ( for Sandi) Winston Churchill
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. Winston Churchill
Do not let spacious plans for a new world divert your energies from saving what is left of the old. Winston Churchill
Eating words has never given me indigestion. Winston Churchill
Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. ( This is for Lil and Hairdog) Winston Churchill
Great and good are seldom the same man. Winston Churchill
Healthy citizens are the greatest asset any country can have. Winston Churchill
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results. ( which is what you are doing, Balto) Winston Churchill
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else. Winston Churchill
I am certainly not one of those who need to be prodded. In fact, if anything, I am the prod. Winston Churchill
I have been brought up and trained to have the utmost contempt for people who get drunk. ( For haphazard) Winston Churchill
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. Winston Churchill
I never worry about action, but only about inaction. Winston Churchill
If you are going through hell, keep going. Winston Churchill
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack. Winston Churchill ( NOP)
In the course of my life, I have often had to eat my words, and I must confess that I have always found it a wholesome diet. Winston Churchill
In those days he was wiser than he is now; he used to frequently take my advice. Winston Churchill
In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might. Winston Churchill
It is a fine thing to be honest, but it is also very important to be right. Winston Churchill
It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link in the chain of destiny can be handled at a time. Winston Churchill
It is always wise to look ahead, but difficult to look further than you can see. Winston Churchill
It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary. Winston Churchill
Kites rise highest against the wind - not with it. Winston Churchill
Let our advance worrying become advance thinking and planning. Winston Churchill ( I like this one)
Most people stumble over the truth, now and then, but they usually manage to pick themselves up and go on, anyway. Winston Churchill
My most brilliant achievement was my ability to be able to persuade my wife to marry me. ( awwww) Winston Churchill
Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room. ( maybe MJ understands this one) Winston Churchill
Never, never, never give up. Winston Churchill
No crime is so great as daring to excel. Winston Churchill
No idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered with a searching but at the same time a steady eye. ( corri) Winston Churchill
Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning. Winston Churchill
One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never! ( reminds me of Choc) Winston Churchill
Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught. ( BF) Winston Churchill
Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game. Winston Churchill
Study history, study history. In history lies all the secrets of statecraft. Winston Churchill
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. Winston Churchill
: it is the courage to continue that counts. Winston Churchill
Sure I am of this, that you have only to endure to conquer. Winston Churchill
Sure I am of this, that you have only to endure to conquer. You have only to persevere to save yourselves. Winston Churchill
The empires of the future are the empires of the mind. Winston Churchill
The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you can see. Winston Churchill
The length of this document defends it well against the risk of its being read. Winston Churchill
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Winston Churchill
The price of greatness is responsibility. Winston Churchill
The problems of victory are more agreeable than the problems of defeat, but they are no less difficult. Winston Churchill
The reserve of modern assertions is sometimes pushed to extremes, in which the fear of being contradicted leads the writer to strip himself of almost all sense and meaning. Winston Churchill
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. Winston Churchill
There are two things that are more difficult than making an after-dinner speech: climbing a wall which is leaning toward you and kissing a girl who is leaning away from you. Winston Churchill
There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion. Winston Churchill
There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result. Winston Churchill
These are not dark days: these are great days - the greatest days our country has ever lived. Winston Churchill
This is no time for ease and comfort. It is time to dare and endure. Winston Churchill
This report, by its very length, defends itself against the risk of being read. Winston Churchill
To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. Winston Churchill
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often. Winston Churchill
To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war. Winston Churchill
Too often the strong, silent man is silent only because he does not know what to say, and is reputed strong only because he has remained silent. Winston Churchill
True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information. Winston Churchill
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Winston Churchill
We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out. Winston Churchill
We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give. ( Lou) Winston Churchill
We occasionally stumble over the truth but most of us pick ourselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. Winston Churchill
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival. Winston Churchill
We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it. Winston Churchill
We shape our dwellings, and afterwards our dwellings shape us. Winston Churchill (the ICs)
You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else. Winston Churchill
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
I've been avoiding this thread because I'm in my cynical phase, but I have to say that I think you are asking the wrong question here:
Quote:
Are the successes because of what we learn here and the failures in spite of it or is it all just a random crap shoot and our time here could be better spent painting the house or on some other tangible if mundane triumph?
I think you are limiting yourself when you think in terms of "success" or "failure". Sure, if you want to look at the title of this forum and say, "success" equals x, where x equals (number of sexual encounters per month at time of subscribing plus 1), or (level of passion of sexual encounter at time of subscription plus 1).
I know that's what many of the posters are looking for when they get here. They want the Answer to "how do I achieve 'success,'" and they usually want it quickly. (When I first found this place, if I recall correctly, I wanted the Answer to some question about how feminism has affected society's idea of marriage).
Now, I just want to shake those folks and tell them the horrible truth, that if they continue to think of success in those terms, it will happen or not happen but there are no easy roads to get there. Better to focus on the one thing that you have a fighting chance of controlling: your attitude.
But we can't do the work for them. They either stick around here and do some work on themselves and then maybe their partners decide that they need to work on themselves, too, or they go to another forum, in disgust, where people claim to have the magic pill to cure all ills, or where they are more tolerant of cretins who don't know the difference between its and it's.
My point is, yes, it seems more like a crap shoot most of the time than a workshop with a proven track record, but, for the right people, it is a great therapeutic community. I may not hold out a lot of hope for the continued existence of my marriage right now, but my emotional well-being is stronger because of the collective wisdom I have distilled from this board.
And I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than paint my house.
