The End or Just the Beginning? Part 3

[PhD_ChrisD]

Hi All,

I think the answer is: What are your goals? If you want to rebuild the M, then ask her out. If you want the D (which is what I thought) then just get done with it. If you don't know, then use the 90 days and figure it out. Don't obsess with her and even think about her. GAL, brother.

--Chris

[Heimlich]

I'll throw my penny's worth out there. Agree with JM and Anne, you've been holding back for a while and letting her make the moves. Try a 180 and ask her out.

Plus, way back in the summer, you kept saying that she really responded to your confidence. Show it to her.

BD

[Atlas]

Haven't tried it, at least not in a while and it was what did work last time. Although she cancelled it, she did turn it into hanging out at the house, which became a daily occurence for a while.

I just have no idea what she is doing, dating, seeing someone, partying. We have really lost touch lately. I guess I have nothing to lose.

Can't understand why I'm thinking this way, but all I can think is that she is dating people and keeps me on the side "in case." So that is why I'm anxious to pull the trigger of moving in some direction.

[Just_Me]

Maybe she's wondering why you aren't doing anything to show you're interested. You can only know if you actually approach her. You'll be able to make better decisions when they are based on actually knowing what's going on rather than assuming the worst based on her lack of contact.

[Atlas]

Allright,

She has family in town until Sunday, I'll let that all pass by and then Sunday avoid talking anything heavy put ask her out and see where it goes and what happens.

[Atlas]

Just_me,

I'd like your take on this. When W agreed to the 90 days, she seemed pretty hopeful, but did make it clear that she could and would do as she pleased with her life in the meantime. Such as dating etc. She said I have no right to ask about it either.

I don't know, but after that I have backed off and we have had our little phone calls, but that is all. I do want to ask her out and I think she would say yes.

But I also don't want to attempting to work on things while she is dating others as well. I don't know if she is, and haven't asked. She said no when we talked later, and then reiterated that when she brought up the bipolar bit.

But if I am going to be "dating" her then I don't want to be the OM. I don't know if going on one single date justifies "dating." But I don't want to be a doormate, like I have continued to be. I'm just sick of that feeling and it really kills my DB efforts. What would you suggest I say or do in moving forward. I don't know if bringing it up on Sunday and saying something to the likes of "I'm not willing to be the OM," or something similar is out of line. I know we aren't emotionally M'ed any longer, but I still consider our voes to be just that, and have a hard time with the fact that she could be doing these things and in the meantime she gets the best of both worlds. Could I stipulate that an acceptance requires exclusivity while we explore this phase? Am I out of line there? What is fair I guess?

[Just_Me]

did make it clear that she could and would do as she pleased with her life in the meantime. Such as dating etc. She said I have no right to ask about it either.

I'm struggling with why she agreed to the 90 days then. How is that different than being divorced? How is this different than when she dropped the bomb? That doesn't say, "I'd like to see where WE go for the next 90 days".

I don't know if bringing it up on Sunday and saying something to the likes of "I'm not willing to be the OM," or something similar is out of line. I know we aren't emotionally M'ed any longer, but I still consider our voes to be just that, and have a hard time with the fact that she could be doing these things and in the meantime she gets the best of both worlds. Could I stipulate that an acceptance requires exclusivity while we explore this phase? Am I out of line there? What is fair I guess?

Start with a beginner's mind (maybe I'm misusing this phrase, but it still seems appropriate). I know you see yourself as still married, but she doesn't. So, I would think more in terms of someone that you are asking on an initial date. Would you demands exclusivity on your first date? I'd take it slower. If the date goes well and leads to more dates, but she's still seeing other people, you should do what you'd do if the same thing happened with a girl you were first dating. Would you indicate you don't want to see her anymore because you aren't interested in seeing someone that is dating multiple people? I would. It sounds like you feel the same way. I think you need to give her the opportunity to see what dating you can be like so she can determine if exclusively dating you is what she wants.

Okay, that being said, I'm a little worried for you. You've said she's still a partier. What would dates look like with her. Would she want to always go to the bar or party? If it's not possible for her to date you without booze being involved, I'd probably quit seeing her. That may be cart before the horse, but whatever relationship you end up in should respect that you aren't a partier. Right?

[Heimlich]

Atlas,
JM makes a good point about the dating.

Just one other thought, YOU are also deciding if you want HER to be in your life. You're W isn't driving this bus. You are.

BD

[Atlas]

Your right, it is no diffrent then being divorced. She has her safety net and gets to do as she pleases to, we have little to no contact as it is unless she NEEDS something. Not sure why she agreed to it as well. I think she is trying to keep the safety net there why she looks for something better, and if she can't find it, oh well at least I have this one. This may sounds selfish and what not, but I'm sick of hearing from her how nice it is that we are developing such a good friendship because this will be so good for our S to see us get along as a D'ed couple. I want things to work, but if she is bound to go the other way, I have to say I won't be happy about it or nice. She has screwed me over in a lot of respects and I don't owe her respect for that.

I guess I'm torn with starting with the beginner's mind as we say and asking her out as I would any one else, and not demanding anything and treating as a brand new R. The reason I state this, is she knows how I feel, it has been made clear. So with her knowing where I stand but no action on her part, I don't know if she wants to date me to just have fun or actually explore whether we are workable. Second, I won't tolerate any drinking. She knows this and won't push it with me, that isn't an issue. However, if things did become more serious then she would have to concede to some type of sober life.

My other thought, after reading in the DR book lately, is to try the "after the LRT" around page 218 I think, in the infidelity chapter. I'm leaning towards this idea for two reasons. First, it allows me to continue to work on my sobriety without dealing with W or the M for now. Second, she hasn't responded positively to me until I did drop the rope and show her I didn't need her. So maybe I need to quit the I am here for you BS, and move on to the it's up to you to decide but I won't accept your lifestyle and choices as they are now.

I just think she is still in such a remote place of indecision, that pursueing for a date, while sounding fun and bringing us together, she won't be assessing our R, rather just looking for someone to hang out with and have fun. I'm just starting to think that after 7 months she needs to be shown the full ramifications of what her decision will gain for her. She has had small glimpses of this, but I have been overwhelming to willing to help and be a rock to lean on in her tough times. Whenever I need to talk to her about S or anything she doesn't respond, and if she does it is on her time line. On the flip side of that coin I'm way to available for her. I help with anything she needs, make repairs, respond to requests and am not showing any effort at detaching. She knows she has me by the short ones and I am allowing her to over reach and take advantage. It is my fault. I just have to make some sort of move or change.

[Heimlich]

That's about the best self-administered 2X4 I've seen.

Now, make it so. After reading all of this, I'd still lean towards asking her out and showing her what being with you would/could be like.

Also, it is a brand new R. What you had with your W is dead and gone. As we've written to each other before, if that R had been strong, you wouldn't be here.

BD